<div dir="ltr">Also robb -- that's cool idea. <div><br></div><div>I guess I'd only worry that a scissor mechanism may not have enough tortional strength ie if it got bent. Probably, the scissor part would have to be mounted sidewise so it did not stick down too much into headroom. then if any pressure was exerted on the scissor part, it could get bent and possibly fail. </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 6:53 PM, David Keenan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dkeenan44@gmail.com" target="_blank">dkeenan44@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi Jake, <div><br></div><div>Thank you so much for taking this project on. I would like to help with this as I can, re: design/mounting and so on. </div><div><br></div><div>Because it's at the front door, this rad hack will be noticed by an inspector. Therefore, it will have to comply with codes, which I don't think will be that hard but I wanted to point out the following constraints (possibly no big deal but fwiw):</div><div><br></div><div>- door arm (2x2 stick) and mechanism cannot extend lower than 2" below top of door. That's possible right? </div><div><br></div><div>- opening force of the motor cannot be too strong. I assume the rpm can be adjusted? </div><div><br></div><div>- per code if the door is blocked or hits someone/something, it needs to yield. What happens when the motor is stopped by something else, when the motor is engaged? Would that damage the motor? </div><div><br></div><div>- Not related to the mechanics, but even if the motor is not heavy, the shelf upon which the motor sits will have to look and be very sturdy, like strong enough for someone to hang off of. Given the large transom, it will probably have to be a wide shelf, or perhaps stainless rods connecting to ceiling joists or something.</div><div><br></div><div>Again for the mechanism, I would refer to guidelines here:</div><div><a href="http://www.constructionspecifier.com/understanding-new-accessibility-requirements-for-doors/" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank">http://www.constructionspecifi<wbr>er.com/understanding-new-acces<wbr>sibility-requirements-for-<wbr>doors/ </a></div><div><a href="http://www.constructionspecifier.com/understanding-new-accessibility-requirements-for-doors/" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank"></a><br></div><div>The door sections of the CBC are also something to refer to but I think I've got those internalized by now and the 2" allowance is the main thing to keep in mind. </div><div><br></div><div>Perhaps we can set up a time for me/others to come look at the equipment and figure out how to safely and securely mount it. </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="h5">On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 4:30 PM, robb <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sf99er@gmail.com" target="_blank">sf99er@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5"><div dir="ltr"><div>view from above<br></div><div> \<br></div> X \<br><div><div> X \<br></div><div> X \<br></div><div> X \<br></div><div>_____X________<br></div><div>===----<br><br></div><div>what about using our actuator & assembling a scissoring mechanism poorly illustrated above?<br>===___ = actuator<br></div><div>X = scissor arms<br></div><div>\ = door<br></div><div>_ = wall above door<br></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="m_681889224076574726h5">On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Jake <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jake@spaz.org" target="_blank">jake@spaz.org</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="m_681889224076574726h5">note: this email goes to four lists. Please reply only to the Access and<br>
Building lists to avoid clogging Omni and Sudo lists with this thread.<br>
<br>
I just want to bump this thread and see if anyone is available to work on the<br>
physical aspects of the door opener I describe below, and as shown in this<br>
diagram:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://spaz.org/~jake/pix/omnidoormotor1.png" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://spaz.org/~jake/pix/omni<wbr>doormotor1.png</a><br>
<br>
I am willing to do the electronics part of it and make it work with our<br>
existing system, but I would like others to help with the building of a bracket<br>
to hold the motor in place over the door, and the woodwork and nuts&bolts of<br>
making the 2x2 stick with steel cable attached to it.<br>
<br>
-jake<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, 17 Jan 2017, Jake wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
the wheelchair motor that Robb wanted to use for a projection screen<br>
raise/lower thing is something else.<br>
<br>
The motor I want to use for the front door opener is this one:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://imgur.com/gallery/MLuT7" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://imgur.com/gallery/MLuT7</a><br>
<br>
it's in sudoroom in a milk crate. Robb and I remove the wheel and the tire,<br>
and now it's ready for the motor to be mounted on a bracket that will hold it<br>
in the right place, which is slightly higher than the top of the door, and<br>
basically 2' south of the door's hinges.<br>
<br>
then, a 2x2 of wood will attach to the top corner of the door with a hinge, and<br>
it will have a cord of this rubber-wrapped steel cable (which I have) go from<br>
one end of the 2x2 to the other, taking a couple of turns around the motor<br>
wheel. It will look like this:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://spaz.org/~jake/pix/omnidoormotor1.png" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://spaz.org/~jake/pix/omni<wbr>doormotor1.png</a><br>
<br>
as you can see from this diagram, when the motor turns its wheel clockwise (as<br>
viewed from above) the 2x2 stick will be pushed in the direction that opens the<br>
door. If it's not clear, the rubber-wrapped steel cable (shown in red/black<br>
stripes) is attached to the 2x2 stick at both ends, but it makes a couple of<br>
turns around the wheel of the motor on its way.<br>
<br>
anyway, i chose this motor because when it's not being energized with<br>
electricity, it's free-moving which means it won't interfere with regular door<br>
movement. But when we activate it, it will be strong enough to open or close<br>
the door as we tell it to do.<br>
<br>
The issues you mention about battery backup are not a problem. We already have<br>
a battery backup for the front door card (and soon RFID) access system, and<br>
this motorized thing will be battery-backed as well.<br>
<br>
I am willing to do the electrical part of this project, and I have already<br>
acquired the rubber-coated steel cable and motor, but I ask that other people<br>
take care of mounting the motor on a suitable frame above the door and help<br>
make the 2x2 stick on a hinge which will attach to the door.<br>
<br>
I will be at sudoroom tomorrow night (tuesday night at 7) in case anyone wants<br>
to meet with me about this.<br>
<br>
-jake<br>
<br>
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017, David Keenan wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I remember hearing about that wheelchair motor -- if it's the same one,<br>
last I heard Robb had wanted to use it to raise/lower a projection screen<br>
for the stage..? So I didn't think of it for this project, but if we can<br>
use it and save ourselves some money, that's great!<br>
<br>
I realize you may have already considered this aspect but as a DIY opener<br>
will also need to comply with code requirements, do you think you can<br>
design a system measurably compliant with:<br>
<br>
- opening / closing force (<5lb) and speed (max. *N* seconds to close)<br>
requirements throughout the swing, during automatic operation and manual<br>
operation per ANSI/BHMA A156.19 for low-energy-operated doors, ICC A117.1,<br>
ADA and whatever may be found in CBC?<br>
<br>
- req'd UPS / backup battery power for opener, for *N* many operations<br>
(need to look it up)<br>
<br>
- compliant location of upper and lower door actuators (buttons), assume<br>
this will be no issue<br>
<br>
If it's helpful, here is a decent article I found that glosses the subject<br>
of codes for low-energy openers:<br>
<a href="http://www.constructionspecifier.com/understanding-new-accessibility-requirements-for-doors/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.constructionspecifi<wbr>er.com/understanding-new-acces<wbr>sibility-requirements-for-door<wbr>s/</a><br>
<<a href="http://www.constructionspecifier.com/understanding-new-accessibility-requirements-for-doors/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.constructionspecif<wbr>ier.com/understanding-new-acce<wbr>ssibility-requirements-for-doo<wbr>rs/</a>><br>
<br>
Given the above, and I realize I only now just brought this up to you, but<br>
I guess my only concern about any DIY implementation is, if you / access<br>
group has the time to implement it relatively soon..? E.g., do you think it<br>
might be possible to complete in the next 2-3 weeks or so..?<br>
<br>
I realize perhaps that is an unfair question to ask before you've really<br>
started hacking on it, but I'm also trying to be realistic and pragmatic<br>
wrt to how busy everyone is and the understandably extended timelines of<br>
volunteer labor in general that comprises the bulk of omni efforts --<br>
<br>
If after reviewing the door req's, you think a DIY system is doable in the<br>
next 2-3 wks, let me know how / when I can help hack on this and I will<br>
follow up with you and access control group directly -- and perhaps we can<br>
set a date to meet up about it?<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
David<br>
<br>
On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 12:20 AM, Maureen Muldavin <<a href="mailto:muldavin.m@gmail.com" target="_blank">muldavin.m@gmail.com</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
If you are working on RFID cards any possibility that the entrance to<br>
sudo/ccl could get a card reader? Been wanting access control for<br>
awhile.<br>
<br>
On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 11:46 PM, Jake <<a href="mailto:jake@spaz.org" target="_blank">jake@spaz.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
i brought in a wheelchair motor a while ago that I think could be made<br>
</blockquote>
into<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
a<br>
power door-opener pretty well.<br>
<br>
I can work on a proof-of-concept for that and then be able to show you<br>
</blockquote>
what<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I<br>
mean, and then we can see if it will be good enough for our needs as<br>
</blockquote>
opposed<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
to<br>
spending $2800 on a "proper" door opener.<br>
<br>
as for the RFID cards, Alex and I have been working on implementing the<br>
</blockquote>
card<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
reader thing for a little while and I think I can add it to the front<br>
</blockquote>
door<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
pretty relatively easily.., and I guess i'll do that first, rather than<br>
trying<br>
to do a storage closet first?<br>
<br>
as always, if anyone wants to participate in this process they should<br>
definitely jump in, otherwise it's subject to my chaotic schedule.<br>
<br>
technical questions about making this happen should be sent to the access<br>
list<br>
and possibly the sudoroom list, but probably not the building list as it<br>
will<br>
be a major distraction if we get into the weeds of microcontroller boards<br>
and<br>
door server code...<br>
<br>
also, yes I do have the box of RFID stuff you ordered and i've been<br>
</blockquote>
working<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
on<br>
it~<br>
<br>
-jake<br>
<br>
On Sun, 15 Jan 2017, David Keenan wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi Jake / access control folks -<br>
<br>
So now that our front door is publicly labelled as accessible, we need<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
to<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
install an automatic door opener & remote button (kickplate &<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
hand-height<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
or a long bar) to make it legal.<br>
<br>
Reason I bring this up to you guys is, the opener system will need to<br>
integrate into our existing/future access control somehow. The quote I<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
got<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
is $2800 (50% parts, 50% labor) for a package including the Open Sesame<br>
Model 233 (brochure<br>
<<a href="http://www.opensesamedoor.com/index_htm_files/open_sesame_brochure.pdf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.opensesamedoor.com<wbr>/index_htm_files/open_sesame_b<wbr>rochure.pdf</a><br>
</blockquote>
,<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
spec<br>
sheet <<a href="http://www.opensesamedoor.com/index_htm_files/specs_model233.pdf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.opensesamedoor.com<wbr>/index_htm_files/specs_model23<wbr>3.pdf</a><br>
</blockquote>
),<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
made in San Leandro.<br>
<br>
Also, some of us met last week re: sketching out Omni's accessibility<br>
plan,<br>
and Yar suggested this might be a good time to also implement RFID<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
system<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
for the front door, if that was possible? In part because, proximity to<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
an<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
RFID fob is more accessible than a card swipe which (after thinking<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
about<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
it) I realized requires a pincing motion that is likely not ADA...<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
because<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
of the excessive door opening pressure and iffy slope on the front<br>
landing,<br>
we need an RFID & auto-opener.<br>
<br>
So -- I'm not sure if any more work has been done on the RFID systems I<br>
put<br>
in sudo a little while ago (stashed in under-stair storage area), might<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
it<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
be possible to integrate these into the door opener? I note in the<br>
brochure<br>
they offer a keypad access option - perhaps an opportunity for 2-factor<br>
authentication like Marc had talked about? Anyhow what do you guys<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
think?<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
I apologize for not helping y'all more with a better access control<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
system<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
(helping spaces post-ghostship consumed my bandwidth), but as there is<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
now<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
renewed pressure I want to help as I can. Would installing a trial<br>
RFID/throw on the Omni Office for example still be helpful towards<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
getting<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
this nailed down? Lmk<br>
<br>
Fwiw - I see the opener as pressing at this point not just 'cause its<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
long<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
overdue, but because every day our front door is labelled as accessible<br>
when it's technically not, is actually a not-insignificant liability<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
issue<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
(accessibility lawsuit). Plus of course, we are still under scrutiny by<br>
the<br>
city, nimby neighbors trying to call us out for bogus reasons, etc etc.<br>
And<br>
per building code the front door must be made fully accessible before<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
any<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
other accessibility work starts on the rest of the building - at some<br>
point<br>
an inspector's gonna notice since they all go through that door..anyhow.<br>
<br>
Let me know how myself & those of us working on accessibility might be<br>
able<br>
to help -<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
David<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
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