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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Agreed. Or, as more specifically seems
to be the case RE the decision reached tonight, 3 or 4 founderS,
the majority of the on-duty and alternates of whom the community
trusts (and implicitly also trusts to manage semi-automation via
bots privileged with ops). That's why I thought three rather than
the voted four founder-status-approved-by-sudoconsensus
sudo-natural-person founders AKA humans might make it clearer,
w/r/t theoretical/possible 2:2 ties.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 1/30/13 3:55 PM, Jenny Ryan wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAF0yFe7FCZyQwOn_hwXWwwJLOmoO4FPK5ieqVJsFpABG1abqhA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">When founder status has been abused to the point of
revoking the decisions of operators, behaving inappropriately
with insulting symbols, and intimidating one of our most
awesomely proactive members (which Yardena described most
acutely and all of which I have been witness to), then it would
seem Founder status is indeed required to be held by someone the
community trusts.<br clear="all">
<div>Jenny<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://jennyryan.net/"
target="_blank">http://jennyryan.net</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://thepyre.org/"
target="_blank">http://thepyre.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://thevirtualcampfire.org/" target="_blank">http://thevirtualcampfire.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://technomadic.tumblr.com/" target="_blank">http://technomadic.tumblr.com</a><br>
<br>
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`<br>
<div>
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our
stories."<br>
-Laurie Anderson<br>
<br>
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error
of defining it."<br>
-Hannah Arendt<br>
<br>
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."<br>
-Stéphane Mallarmé<br>
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:47 PM, Mischa
Spiegelmock <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:thadwooster@gmail.com" target="_blank">thadwooster@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Founder status is not required to "filter" the content of
the channel<br>
<div>
<div><br>
On Jan 30, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Jae Kwon wrote:<br>
<br>
> Here's a proposal.<br>
><br>
> Assume that #sudoroom on FreeNode should be
officially operated by SudoRoom the collective.
[assumption 1]<br>
> Assume that FreeNode will force the transfer of +F
to whoever/whatever SudoRoom decides. [assumption 2]<br>
> Assume that SudoRoom agrees that the contents of
#sudoroom should be filtered for the purpose of
SafeSpace. [assumption 3]<br>
><br>
> Then I suggest we:<br>
><br>
> (0) test the assumptions first.<br>
> (a) vote on whether +F should be reassigned, and if
so,<br>
> (b) vote to whom +F should go, where candidates are
suggested -- real bot implementations included.<br>
><br>
> On Jan 30, 2013, at 2:26 PM, <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:hol@gaskill.com"
target="_blank">hol@gaskill.com</a> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> bumping rachel's sentiment here. yardena's
note here was the clearest explanation I've seen, as
someone who doesn't really get on the IRC channel and
who would like this information to get out prior to the
meeting so as to reduce meeting time.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Jan 30, 2013 01:15:46 PM, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rachelyra@gmail.com" target="_blank">rachelyra@gmail.com</a>
wrote:<br>
>> i think this reply is dismissive and it makes
me sadfaced.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Yardena is talking about much deeper and
more insidious, and potentially<br>
>>> divisive, issues than typos or spelling.
If you think her concerns are<br>
>>> boring, then you could easily ignore them
and stay silent without being<br>
>>> dismissive and rude.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Yardena did an awesome job of facilitating
meetings for 6 straight hours<br>
>>> last week... it seems to me like anyone who
enjoyed that experience with<br>
>>> her might take a moment to give a damn
about her concerns.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Multiple folks have suggested it would be
good to have a clear IRC<br>
>>> policy. That seems like a good next step.
Maybe a wiki page, seeded<br>
>>> with Yardena 's suggestion here? I am not
active on the channel so am<br>
>>> not sure if it makes sense for me to be too
involved in that process...?<br>
>>><br>
>>> R.<br>
>>><br>
>>> On 1/30/2013 1:07 PM, Clarence Beeks wrote:<br>
>>>> Do you know why America is awesome? We
have the time and privilege and<br>
>>>> resources to argue<br>
>>>> over replacing a "Y" with a "J".<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I can 't wait for the next comet.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 12:54 PM,
Yardena Cohen <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:yardenack@gmail.com" target="_blank">yardenack@gmail.com</a><br>
>>>> mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:yardenack@gmail.com" target="_blank">yardenack@gmail.com</a>>>
wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>>> Apparently the Sudo folk with
admin privileges to the #sudoroom<br>
>>>> IRC channel are jealously resistant
to sharing control,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> This is not the case. Jordana and
Tunabananas have operator<br>
>>>> privileges and can perform any sort
of moderation they desire. If<br>
>>>> you have an issue with the content of
#sudoroom, creating a new<br>
>>>> channel will not solve that problem.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I avoided replying to this right
away, because I was too angry and<br>
>>>> creeped out over being called
"Jordana." He did this once before in<br>
>>>> the IRC while at the same time
talking about me with male pronouns<br>
>>>> (he/his) - he knows better, so I took
this as targeted harassment, or<br>
>>>> at the very least disingenuous
passive aggressive participation in the<br>
>>>> trolling games that have been going
on lately. He 's apologized to me<br>
>>>> in private since then but I just want
to register that joking about<br>
>>>> hackerspace wars can be fun, but
actually gaslighting each other is<br>
>>>> NOT fun. It can be scary,
intimidating, and seriously compromise the<br>
>>>> accessibility and diversity of our
community.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> As to the substance, he 's
absolutely right that we have op privileges,<br>
>>>> but this obscures a few things. For
technical background, I encourage<br>
>>>> people to read about the difference
between +F and +o. Your best guide<br>
>>>> will be logging onto freenode and
typing: "/msg chanserv help flags"<br>
>>>> but more general guides are online:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRC#Modes"
target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRC#Modes</a><br>
>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml"
target="_blank">https://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> There 've been conflicts over how to
run the channel. Namely:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> 1) The person with +F has used his
privileges to override the<br>
>>>> decisions of those with only +o, at
several times unquieting people<br>
>>>> we 've quieted. The contexts for
these were admittedly controversial<br>
>>>> and fall on ideological fault lines
over how to run an IRC channel in<br>
>>>> general, so I agree 100% with Andrew
that a clear IRC policy is the<br>
>>>> way to go. For the record, this has
been mostly about using oppressive<br>
>>>> slurs, and my position has been not
to tolerate them very much. We<br>
>>>> happen to have in our community a
person who makes it his life 's work<br>
>>>> to push peoples ' buttons with
slurs, and happened to be doing that IN<br>
>>>> the IRC channel. He 'd also made a
habit of typing anatomical words at<br>
>>>> random times. Form your own opinions.
Again, the solution to this may<br>
>>>> be more about having a clear policy,
than who enforces it.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> 2) The person with +F has acted in
bad faith. He flooded the channel<br>
>>>> with ascii art of an ejaculating
swastika and claimed it was an<br>
>>>> "accident", which would be a
no-brainer kban in most any channel. When<br>
>>>> asked to share +F with other people,
his response was to vandalize the<br>
>>>> Sudoroom wiki to say he is the
"leader" (<br>
>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://sudoroom.org/wiki/Community_Structure"
target="_blank">http://sudoroom.org/wiki/Community_Structure</a>
). In the meantime, he<br>
>>>> shares +F with a friend of his who
hadn 't been to Sudoroom since<br>
>>>> summer 2012 and didn 't even seem to
know anybody 's name. They 'd also<br>
>>>> set the +S (successor) flag for a
person who is emphatically NOT a<br>
>>>> Sudoroom member and has even
publically criticized Sudoroom. This sent<br>
>>>> a clear message to the rest of us
that we were dealing with people who<br>
>>>> saw us as a joke; didn 't respect
our community; and that there was<br>
>>>> little we could do about it in the
short term. That mistrust has<br>
>>>> colored all of the talk over IRC
privileges since then, and has only<br>
>>>> escalated since these same people
came to our 1/16 meeting and made it<br>
>>>> significantly longer (by complaining
about the meeting being long!),<br>
>>>> and also filled our meeting agenda
notes with things like "fuck",<br>
>>>> "poop" and "this is why you guys
never hack anything".<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I 'm not bitter or anything, just
trying to bring out some of the<br>
>>>> subtext here for those not following
why things are happening the way<br>
>>>> they are.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I think the best formulation for IRC
rules that everyone can agree on<br>
>>>> would be something like: we want the
IRC channel to accurately reflect<br>
>>>> the atmosphere at the physical
sudoroom space. To me, that nicely<br>
>>>> encompasses all the many behavioral
problems and general do 's and<br>
>>>> don 'ts. Honestly the room itself
has rarely had the kind of problems<br>
>>>> the channel has, because people tend
to be a lot more decent to each<br>
>>>> other face to face, and because it
self-selects for people who care<br>
>>>> about the community.<br>
>>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list<br>
>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org"
target="_blank">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>
mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org"
target="_blank">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>><br>
>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss"
target="_blank">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list<br>
>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org"
target="_blank">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a><br>
>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss"
target="_blank">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a><br>
>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list<br>
>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org"
target="_blank">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a><br>
>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss"
target="_blank">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a><br>
>>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> sudo-discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org"
target="_blank">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss"
target="_blank">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> sudo-discuss mailing list<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org"
target="_blank">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss"
target="_blank">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sudo-discuss mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org"
target="_blank">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss"
target="_blank">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a><br>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a>
</pre>
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