<div dir="ltr"> I expect the University of California system to be dismantled, destroyed, made fairly worthless in the next 10 years. it makes me sad.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Anon195714 <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:anon195714@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">anon195714@sbcglobal.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<br>
<br>
Resilience is the ability of a system to withstand shocks and "black
swan" events. <br>
<br>
Right now we are seeing the wholesale destruction of systems that in
the past have been far more resilient. This is being done in the
name of profit one one hand, and convenience on the other. <br>
<br>
There is no substitute for wires to carry electricity. Nicola
Tesla's broadcast power experiments in Colorado Springs caused
disruptions in nearby cities similar to what would occur from large
solar flares. On a small scale it can work, such as for resonant
charging stations for electric vehicles, built into every parking
space with a meter (deposit $3 to park, and optionally another $3
for a quick wireless recharge). But it is highly likely that
injecting huge quantities of energy into the atmosphere, on the
scale required for industrial civilization (think of where your fork
and spoon come from) would have unforeseen and probably destructive
ecological consequences. <br>
<br>
So between here and some hypothetical Mr. Fusion machine in our
basements, we're stuck with wires.<br>
<br>
The question is how to manage those wires so they, and the rest of
the power control infrastructure, don't become high-value targets.<br>
<br>
The simplest solution from an engineering perspective, is
neighborhood power. Every block has its own grid, with solar roofs
on every house, a small battery pack in every house, and connections
to the larger grid or perhaps a shared natural gas turbine or
nuclear battery of about 30 to 50 KW output. Now try to get that to
happen with the present real estate situation: it's a non-starter.
A selfish ass halfway down one street, would be sufficient to block
it. Zoning codes wouldn't even know what to do about it. <br>
<br>
Municipal ownership of the wires on public rights-of-way would be a
great thing. Now try getting the voters to approve an eminent
domain buy-out of PG&E's wires, or an expensive project to run
all new wires under the streets. <br>
<br>
The blunt fact is, WE the geeks, the engineers and technicians,
builders, makers, and hackers, have the smarts and the skills to
come up with something that will work and that will stand up to
shocks. BUT the hands that control the money flows have no interest
or incentive to let us do so. <br>
<br>
This doesn't even require overt malevolence, just a "business as
usual" and "ho-hum" attitude, of the kind that is common among
people who have never worried about putting food on their own
tables, much less considered what life would be like with frequent
power outages (some of them lasting hours, some lasting days or
weeks). <br>
<br>
So frankly I'm at a loss for a conclusive answer to this one. <br>
<br>
When it comes to resilient telecoms, we can set up community mesh
and back it up with small cheap solar panels to keep it running
during power outages. <br>
<br>
But when it comes to power as such, for lights and fridges and
cooking, there is no equivalent of community mesh. Yet.<br>
<br>
There are times when I think we'll just have to go through a major
catastrophe before we realize that we have to build resilient
infrastructure. <br>
<br>
It took the Loma Prieta quake and videos of sections of the Bay
Bridge collapsed, before California got off its collective arse and
built a new span. But there are other instances where entire
bridges, not maintained due to stingy taxpayers and pandering
politicians, simply collapsed, even during rush hour. <br>
<br>
This one happened five years ago:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C31IlOHNzbM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C31IlOHNzbM</a><br>
<br>
If Al Qaeda or North Korea or a Hayward Fault quake hit the "smart
grid," there won't be any dramatic video. There'll just be darkness
and food going bad in our fridges.<br>
<br>
Perhaps that would encourage people to go out at night and gaze at
the sky. Perhaps the awesome view of the Milky Way in all its
splendor, would inspire a new interest in space exploration, and
with it, a new interest in science and technology generally. <br>
<br>
In any case it would be a good thing if the members of Bay Area
hackerspaces could put our heads together to come up with some
practical solutions to this one. <br>
<br>
-G.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
=====<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 13-03-26-Tue 5:28 PM, Anthony Di
Franco wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default">To be clear, I don't mean to say "no
grids!1!!1!!!" but just "use large-scale grids only for what
they're best for in the context of a broader heterogeneous
system, not for almost everything as they are now, and take
into account in a rigorous way overall system efficiency and
other concerns like vulnerability to failures both routine and
rare and corruptibility of the social systems that grow up
around the technical systems."</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">I remember discussing these points a few
times in the past with you, George, and Hol, and others around
sudo room; might we like to get some documentation together on
interesting specifics? A section of the wiki maybe, where we
can throw ideas up about the details and see what sticks?</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 5:06 PM,
Anon195714 <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:anon195714@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">anon195714@sbcglobal.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
<br>
A lot of the arguement against power grids is ultimately
rooted in opposition to having our energy supply
controlled by distant corporations whose decisions are not
sustainable and not in our interests. <br>
<br>
I agree that over-dependence on greedy corporations for
vital infrastructure, merely for the sake of convenience,
is a shortcut to servitude. Google is the worst offender,
with its seductive Gmail and Google Voice offering
"convenience" in exchange for intensive and intrusive
surveillance, not only of those who use the services, but
of everyone they communicate with. (Worst of all, Google
Glass: "become a volunteer surveillance drone!")<br>
<br>
The model we should be looking toward, to manage the power
grid, is one of municipally-owned transmission
infrastructure (the wires along the streets), and
diversification of power producers (from individual
households to the existing power utilities). Everyone
would be paid the same rate for power they "upload" to the
grid, and everyone would pay the same rate for power they
"download." This would immediately level the playing
field and provide an enormous incentive for all manner of
renewable and new-tech power generation. <br>
<br>
Further, the municipal ownership model should also apply
to the wired telecoms grid: telephone and internet. (Even
your mobile device is only "wireless" for the last half
mile at most; the rest of the way it's as wired as my
antique dial phones.) All of these things are using the
public rights-of-way along the streets; they are arguably
public rights-of-way in themselves, and as such, should be
owned by the public. <br>
<br>
The municipal internet of electricity would entail each
local power producer (household or larger) having small
storage capacity on-site, and a switching synchronized
inverter to connect to the grid. An onboard
microprocessor with an analog voltage sensors would
monitor line power to determine when power should be
uploaded to the grid or downloaded from the grid. Simple
"net metering" would keep track of the billing. <br>
<br>
The small decentralized battery packs would act primarily
as buffers, to level out power production and consumption
among users. Overnight and over multiple cloudy days, and
during peak demand hours, the decentralized solar would be
supplemented by other power sources such as micro-reactors
and natural gas turbines. <br>
<br>
The uniform pricing mechanism would prevent predatory
"arbitrage" of electricity, and provide the incentive to
install solar panels on every solar-accessible flat
surface, even on bus shelters and other street kiosks. <br>
<br>
The point-of-production microprocessors would be isolated
from the internet to prevent cyber-attacks against the
grid: the best kind of "smart grid" is one that
self-regulates locally without being vulnerable globally.
<br>
<br>
I should also mention: Yes, electric automobiles can
provide household power storage in the absence of having a
grid, but a) not everyone owns or even wants an
automobile, b) if you've drained your car battery pack
overnight to power your house, it's not available the next
morning to get you to work, and c) even if everyone could
afford a new electric car, there are good reasons to
reduce car ownership and usage in favor of bicycles,
scooters, motorcycles, buses, and trains. <br>
<br>
Beyond that, we should not be destroying our civic
infrastructure in favor of requiring everyone to have
their own i-Things or do without. Public phones, public
bathrooms (do you really want to carry an i-Pee around?),
public drinking fountains, public benches for sitting,
public transport, etc.: are all civic goods that make the
public sphere more user-friendly and accessible. A public
power grid is another example, as with public water
supply, public sewage treatment, and refuse disposal: life
without those things would be worse than miserable.<br>
<br>
Don't destroy it: reclaim it, revision it, and rebuild
it. <br>
<br>
-G.<br>
<br>
<br>
=====<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 13-03-26-Tue 3:41 PM, Anthony Di Franco wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default">Production of alternative
energy can be and for most reasons probably should
be much less centralized, equivalently,
smaller-scale, than production of energy mostly is
now. (Off-grid, as you mention, but very literally.)</div>
<div class="gmail_default">Large-scale up front +
large, complex distribution networks is revealed as
an obsolete architecture; large scale distribution
networks become relatively less important, so even
if the answer to your question is no, which it
probably isn't given crowdfunding and other
disintermediated finance gaining momentum, it's
moot, or at least of much less relative importance.</div>
<div class="gmail_default">Put another way, when the
most important goal is maximum efficiency rather
than maximum centralization, large upfront capital
investment + large, complex distribution network is
stupid; <a href="https://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com/" target="_blank">proper accounting</a> of all costs
and benefits in a global rather than piecewise local
sense reveals this now for agriculture,
manufacturing, energy, ...</div>
<div class="gmail_default">Even now, buffering between
supply and demand is a constraint on grid
architecture leading to great economic demand within
the current paradigm for distributed storage /
production of energy according to someone who came
through sudo room whose name escapes me.</div>
<div class="gmail_default">This loosely-drafted email
brought to you by the <a href="http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2010/11/eaas-non-rival-goods-vs-rival-goods.html" target="_blank">slogan</a>, <a href="http://www.miiu.org/wiki/Resilient_Things_by_Top-Level_Category" target="_blank">"localize production, virtualize
everything else"</a> and the acronym <a href="http://www.accelerationwatch.com/mest.html" target="_blank">STEMI</a> <a href="http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2008/11/stemi.html" target="_blank">compression</a>.</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 3:17
PM, Romy Ilano <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:romy@snowyla.com" target="_blank">romy@snowyla.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Is it possible to create
alternative energy distribution networks
(biofuels/solar/ wind etc) that replace
mainstream petrol and natural gas based energy
without a large financial sector?
<div><br>
</div>
<div> the vc system that funds these alternative
energy start-ups piggy backs off the
investment banks, etc. and big private equity
and institutional investment funds. vcs are
like a fly on the @ss of a financial hippo.</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div>I haven't heard people discuss off-grid
that much in the tech talks I've been to(
which are excellent). Is there a conversation
here that would show how off grid is a viable
alternative, even if it's not a big money
solution?<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 26,
2013 at 1:56 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hol@gaskill.com" target="_blank">hol@gaskill.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">this talk
about imports and exports always reminds
me of energy flow<br>
<br>
compare 2011<br>
<a href="https://www.llnl.gov/news/newsreleases/2012/Oct/images/25306_LLNLUSEnergy2011650.jpg" target="_blank">https://www.llnl.gov/news/newsreleases/2012/Oct/images/25306_LLNLUSEnergy2011650.jpg</a><br>
<br>
<br>
with 2002<br>
<a href="http://www.hubbertpeak.com/us/images/us_energyflow2002.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.hubbertpeak.com/us/images/us_energyflow2002.jpg</a><br>
<br>
fascinating<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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