<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'arial narrow',sans-serif">To be clear, I don't mean to say "no grids!1!!1!!!" but just "use large-scale grids only for what they're best for in the context of a broader heterogeneous system, not for almost everything as they are now, and take into account in a rigorous way overall system efficiency and other concerns like vulnerability to failures both routine and rare and corruptibility of the social systems that grow up around the technical systems."</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'arial narrow',sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'arial narrow',sans-serif">I remember discussing these points a few times in the past with you, George, and Hol, and others around sudo room; might we like to get some documentation together on interesting specifics? A section of the wiki maybe, where we can throw ideas up about the details and see what sticks?</div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Anon195714 <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:anon195714@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">anon195714@sbcglobal.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<br>
<br>
A lot of the arguement against power grids is ultimately rooted in
opposition to having our energy supply controlled by distant
corporations whose decisions are not sustainable and not in our
interests. <br>
<br>
I agree that over-dependence on greedy corporations for vital
infrastructure, merely for the sake of convenience, is a shortcut to
servitude. Google is the worst offender, with its seductive Gmail
and Google Voice offering "convenience" in exchange for intensive
and intrusive surveillance, not only of those who use the services,
but of everyone they communicate with. (Worst of all, Google Glass:
"become a volunteer surveillance drone!")<br>
<br>
The model we should be looking toward, to manage the power grid, is
one of municipally-owned transmission infrastructure (the wires
along the streets), and diversification of power producers (from
individual households to the existing power utilities). Everyone
would be paid the same rate for power they "upload" to the grid, and
everyone would pay the same rate for power they "download." This
would immediately level the playing field and provide an enormous
incentive for all manner of renewable and new-tech power
generation. <br>
<br>
Further, the municipal ownership model should also apply to the
wired telecoms grid: telephone and internet. (Even your mobile
device is only "wireless" for the last half mile at most; the rest
of the way it's as wired as my antique dial phones.) All of these
things are using the public rights-of-way along the streets; they
are arguably public rights-of-way in themselves, and as such, should
be owned by the public. <br>
<br>
The municipal internet of electricity would entail each local power
producer (household or larger) having small storage capacity
on-site, and a switching synchronized inverter to connect to the
grid. An onboard microprocessor with an analog voltage sensors
would monitor line power to determine when power should be uploaded
to the grid or downloaded from the grid. Simple "net metering"
would keep track of the billing. <br>
<br>
The small decentralized battery packs would act primarily as
buffers, to level out power production and consumption among users.
Overnight and over multiple cloudy days, and during peak demand
hours, the decentralized solar would be supplemented by other power
sources such as micro-reactors and natural gas turbines. <br>
<br>
The uniform pricing mechanism would prevent predatory "arbitrage" of
electricity, and provide the incentive to install solar panels on
every solar-accessible flat surface, even on bus shelters and other
street kiosks. <br>
<br>
The point-of-production microprocessors would be isolated from the
internet to prevent cyber-attacks against the grid: the best kind of
"smart grid" is one that self-regulates locally without being
vulnerable globally. <br>
<br>
I should also mention: Yes, electric automobiles can provide
household power storage in the absence of having a grid, but a) not
everyone owns or even wants an automobile, b) if you've drained your
car battery pack overnight to power your house, it's not available
the next morning to get you to work, and c) even if everyone could
afford a new electric car, there are good reasons to reduce car
ownership and usage in favor of bicycles, scooters, motorcycles,
buses, and trains. <br>
<br>
Beyond that, we should not be destroying our civic infrastructure in
favor of requiring everyone to have their own i-Things or do
without. Public phones, public bathrooms (do you really want to
carry an i-Pee around?), public drinking fountains, public benches
for sitting, public transport, etc.: are all civic goods that make
the public sphere more user-friendly and accessible. A public power
grid is another example, as with public water supply, public sewage
treatment, and refuse disposal: life without those things would be
worse than miserable.<br>
<br>
Don't destroy it: reclaim it, revision it, and rebuild it. <br>
<br>
-G.<br>
<br>
<br>
=====<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 13-03-26-Tue 3:41 PM, Anthony Di
Franco wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default">Production of alternative energy can be
and for most reasons probably should be much less centralized,
equivalently, smaller-scale, than production of energy mostly
is now. (Off-grid, as you mention, but very literally.)</div>
<div class="gmail_default">Large-scale up front + large, complex
distribution networks is revealed as an obsolete architecture;
large scale distribution networks become relatively less
important, so even if the answer to your question is no, which
it probably isn't given crowdfunding and other
disintermediated finance gaining momentum, it's moot, or at
least of much less relative importance.</div>
<div class="gmail_default">Put another way, when the most important
goal is maximum efficiency rather than maximum centralization,
large upfront capital investment + large, complex distribution
network is stupid; <a href="https://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com/" target="_blank">proper
accounting</a> of all costs and benefits in a global rather
than piecewise local sense reveals this now for agriculture,
manufacturing, energy, ...</div>
<div class="gmail_default">Even now, buffering between supply and
demand is a constraint on grid architecture leading to great
economic demand within the current paradigm for distributed
storage / production of energy according to someone who came
through sudo room whose name escapes me.</div>
<div class="gmail_default">This loosely-drafted email brought to you
by the <a href="http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2010/11/eaas-non-rival-goods-vs-rival-goods.html" target="_blank">slogan</a>,
<a href="http://www.miiu.org/wiki/Resilient_Things_by_Top-Level_Category" target="_blank">"localize
production, virtualize everything else"</a> and the acronym
<a href="http://www.accelerationwatch.com/mest.html" target="_blank">STEMI</a>
<a href="http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2008/11/stemi.html" target="_blank">compression</a>.</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Romy
Ilano <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:romy@snowyla.com" target="_blank">romy@snowyla.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Is it possible to create alternative energy
distribution networks (biofuels/solar/ wind etc) that
replace mainstream petrol and natural gas based energy
without a large financial sector?
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
the vc system that funds these alternative energy
start-ups piggy backs off the investment banks, etc. and
big private equity and institutional investment funds.
vcs are like a fly on the @ss of a financial hippo.</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>I haven't heard people discuss off-grid that much in
the tech talks I've been to( which are excellent). Is
there a conversation here that would show how off grid
is a viable alternative, even if it's not a big money
solution?<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 1:56
PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hol@gaskill.com" target="_blank">hol@gaskill.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">this
talk about imports and exports always reminds me
of energy flow<br>
<br>
compare 2011<br>
<a href="https://www.llnl.gov/news/newsreleases/2012/Oct/images/25306_LLNLUSEnergy2011650.jpg" target="_blank">https://www.llnl.gov/news/newsreleases/2012/Oct/images/25306_LLNLUSEnergy2011650.jpg</a><br>
<br>
<br>
with 2002<br>
<a href="http://www.hubbertpeak.com/us/images/us_energyflow2002.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.hubbertpeak.com/us/images/us_energyflow2002.jpg</a><br>
<br>
fascinating<br>
</blockquote>
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<br>
</div>
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