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<br>
Depends on what the goal is. <br>
<br>
Originally this was presented as having a goal of shifting the
language usage in the culture at-large. <br>
<br>
OK, so we come up with one example ("killing it"), and then it turns
out that the example may have been appropriated from the African
American community: uh-oh, if we go after that example it may appear
that a bunch of nerds (conventionally thought of as white) are
engaging in some kind of outsider-critique of someone else's
community (black). <br>
<br>
That would be a mess, but we don't even have to go there: we have
examples in our own subculture such as "killer app," and I'm
suggesting we clean up our own house first by going after those. <br>
<br>
Analogy: Violence in media. "Violent lyrics in rap music!" Uh-oh,
same uh-oh as with "killing it." Contrast to "violence in video
games," which does _not_ have potential implications involving race.<br>
<br>
We have enough mess to clean up in our own back yard before we have
any reasonable basis to venture forth into others' back yards where
we might be seen as busybodies or worse. <br>
<br>
The place where that principle does not apply is when one community
is under attack from members of another: for example where racism or
discrimination are occurring, the targeted minority has every right
to counterattack the culture of the attacking majority. But that's
not occurring here.<br>
<br>
The additional issue, which wasn't the original issue behind
"cuddling it" (or "cuddler app" for that matter;-) is cultural
appropriation. <br>
<br>
Each of these is a distinct issue, with connections to other issues,
but there's a difference between recognizing those connections vs.
lumping all of it together to the point where nothing can be done.<br>
<br>
Re. Anthony:<br>
<br>
Anthony gets the award for "most-compact elucidation of a large
& complex dynamic" for his item, "...(the) existential struggle
among companies to achieve a position of oligarch in a crony
capitalist market by killing off the competition once and for all
and salting the earth they ate from with regulations and collusions
so nothing will ever grow there again."<br>
<br>
Oligarchy & crony capitalism: One thing we _really really need
to deal with_ is economic class. There has been, in the Bay Area,
an undercurrent of tension between "proletariat" and
"lumpenproletariat" worldviews, and the analysis of the potential
nexes of social change that follows. This also deserves its own
topic. <br>
<br>
Salting the Earth so nothing will grow: This one is also huge, and
it has some truly vicious implications for things we commonly
interact with, and the attached political & economic realities.
And it's an additional issue that deserves its own topic. <br>
<br>
So, with that, it's time to start a couple more threads.<br>
<br>
-G.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 13-05-03-Fri 5:39 PM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mattsenate@gmail.com">mattsenate@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:518458df.88fd420a.7ca0.0409@mx.google.com"
type="cite"><span style="font-family: Arial;">But not to be lost
in the discussion, and, in fact, most critical, is the value in
multitudes, in variance, and in solidarity, based upon empathy
and mutual understanding. This in resistance to dominant
patterns of division and subsequent conquest. Therefore I claim
scrutiny over cultural and linguistic appropriation remains
relevant and crucial to recognize in context of mutual respect
rather than a laissez-faire attitude.<br>
<br>
What I mean is, let's try not to muddle it, but certainly cuddle
it.<br>
<br>
// Matt<br>
<br>
<div id="htc_header" style="">----- Reply message -----<br>
From: "Anthony Di Franco" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:di.franco@gmail.com"><di.franco@gmail.com></a><br>
To: "GtwoG PublicOhOne" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:g2g-public01@att.net"><g2g-public01@att.net></a><br>
Cc: ",sudo-discuss" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org"><sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org></a><br>
Subject: [sudo-discuss] cuddling it<br>
Date: Fri, May 3, 2013 5:19 PM<br>
<br>
</div>
</span><br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial
narrow,sans-serif">That is all quite interesting and adds a
lot of texture to the discussion.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial
narrow,sans-serif">
And so is the question of the phrase "killer app" interesting.
Consonant with an existential struggle among companies to
achieve a position of oligarch in a crony capitalist market by
killing off the competition once and for all and salting the
earth they ate from with regulations and collusions so nothing
will ever grow there again.<br>
<br>
Though, I don't know how to limit things to a subculture
supposed to be our own since we are all part of and relate to
many different cultures, without necessarily any universal
common thread, and the idea of creating fiefdoms of discourse
based on arbitrary dualistic in-group-out-group distinctions
is unappealing anyway.<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 4:53 PM, GtwoG PublicOhOne <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:g2g-public01@att.net" target="_blank">g2g-public01@att.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
Yo's-<br>
<br>
None the less, useful to explore. <br>
<br>
As I understand the history of this: <br>
<br>
The word "savage" is the English adaptation of the French
word "sauvage" that originally meant "forest-dweller." At
the time of early European settlement in North America,
the practice in Europe was that only members of the
nobility had the privilege of hunting in the forests:
"commoners" (that would be us) were forbidden from doing
so, often under penalty of death. <br>
<br>
The Europeans who settled in North America were highly
surprised to see that no such restriction existed among
the Native peoples: any and all tribe members hunted
freely in the woods. <br>
<br>
The phrase "noble savage" originally referred to this: the
idea that ordinary tribe members had what in Europe was a
special privilege of the nobility, the freedom to hunt in
the woods. The European settlers envied the First Nations
peoples for having a privilege that they themselves did
not have.<br>
<br>
The dynamic is quite real to this day, of city-dwellers'
envy of rural peoples, and industrial-culture peoples'
envy of hunter-gatherer peoples. It's a generalization of
"the grass is always greener in the other person's yard."
It works both ways: every axis of contrast between
someone's own circumstances and someone else's
circumstances can become grounds for comparisons that may
risk turning invidious in some way. And once that process
gets started, it opens the door to all manner of
psychodynamic smog. <br>
<br>
So about "killing it":<br>
<br>
Seems to me that if we're concerned about (whatever
issue), and we run across examples that may be entangled
with racial/ethnic/religious/gender/etc. issues, the best
thing to do is to stick to examples that come squarely
from within our own subculture. <br>
<br>
And what's the most frequent example of embedded violent
language in geek/nerd/maker/hacker culture? <br>
<br>
How'bout "killer app"? Let's start with that one. <br>
<br>
-G.<br>
<br>
(Back under the correct address now; thanks to all who
helped fix that.)
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 13-05-03-Fri 3:18 PM, Anthony Di Franco wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial narrow,sans-serif">No
worries. My response was a rhetorical answer.<br>
</div>
<div style="text-decoration:none"> </div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 3, 2013 at
3:16 PM, netdiva <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:netdiva@sonic.net"
target="_blank">netdiva@sonic.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">Dont worry, that was
really just a rhetorical question.
<div><br>
<br>
On 5/3/2013 3:11 PM, Anthony Di Franco
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Of course.
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 3:08 PM, netdiva
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:netdiva@sonic.net"
target="_blank">netdiva@sonic.net</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:netdiva@sonic.net"
target="_blank">netdiva@sonic.net</a>>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Did you actually just say this in
public?<br>
<br>
<br>
On 5/3/2013 3:04 PM, Anthony Di Franco
wrote:<br>
<br>
Doesn't the civilized psyche
secretly crave the things it sets itself<br>
apart from and gives up and
projects on its image of the noble savage<br>
though?<br>
<br>
Your description seems more like
meditatively flowing through it.<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 2:58 PM,
netdiva <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:netdiva@sonic.net"
target="_blank">netdiva@sonic.net</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:netdiva@sonic.net"
target="_blank">netdiva@sonic.net</a>><br>
</div>
<div> <mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:netdiva@sonic.net"
target="_blank">netdiva@sonic.net</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:netdiva@sonic.net"
target="_blank">netdiva@sonic.net</a>>>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Here I was thinking "killing it"
was just another example of<br>
appropriation of african american
vernacular by the mainstream.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 5/3/2013 2:46 PM, Leonid
Kozhukh wrote:<br>
<br>
"killing it" is a recently popular
term to denote excellence and<br>
immense progress. it has a
violent, forceful connotation.<br>
<br>
friends in the circus community -
through empirical evidence - have<br>
established a belief that
operating at the highest levels of talent<br>
requires mindfulness, awareness,
and calm. thus, a better term, which<br>
they have started to playfully
use, is "cuddling it."<br>
<br>
thought sudoers would appreciate
this.<br>
<br>
cuddling it,<br>
<br>
-- len<br>
<br>
founder, ligertail <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ligertail.com"
target="_blank">http://ligertail.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
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