<p>No that's absurd. There are lots of reasons ppl in relationships don't have sex or don't have it much and ways single people can, although it is easier if you have a partner.<br>
Also, comparing options means you must have them - if you don't have access to sex then you don't have access to it. Comparing it to masturbation, or comparing it to camping, or to pie, or to music, it's moot. <br>
The whole conversation hinges on the notion that you have access to both, which I think more people do than realize it.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On May 5, 2013 10:00 PM, "GtwoG PublicOhOne" <<a href="mailto:g2g-public01@att.net">g2g-public01@att.net</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<br>
Sonja, Andrew, Et. Al.-<br>
<br>
So now the implicit assumption goes explicit:<br>
<br>
"Masturbation is a thing too thoroughly inferior to sex to be
classed with it."<br>
<br>
The necessary and inevitable corollary to that is, "Single people
are thoroughly inferior to coupled people." Care to argue that
point?<br>
<br>
It wasn't long ago that us queerz were also subjected to "Homosexual
sex is a thing thoroughly inferior to heterosexual sex." <br>
<br>
Inferior by way of "immoral," and for the longest time (and still,
in many places), illegal. In a wide swath of the world, I can go to
prison for who I love, and in a slightly less wide swath of the
world, I can get beheaded in the public square or hanged by the neck
at the end of a crane borrowed from the Public Works Department (as
is the custom in Iran, 16-year-old queer guys included, go search
BBC.com for that story).<br>
<br>
Comparisons based on assertions of one's own superiority and others'
inferiority, are the last refuge of the will-to-power mentality that
is exploitative, oppressive, and ultimately insecure of its own
niche in the human social ecosystem. <br>
<br>
In any ontological sense, arguements about the superiority and
inferiority of personal matters of taste among consenting adults,
are groundless, pointless, and ultimately meaningless. <br>
<br>
Would anyone care to argue whether rock is better than rap or
vice-versa, or whether jazz is better than country & western or
vice-versa, or whether playing a piano, harmonica, guitar,
saxophone, or banjo is better? Any such assertion of "better" (and
its necessary corollary, "worse"), is nothing more than a linguistic
confound of the phrase "I prefer." <br>
<br>
I prefer music X, sexuality Y, and pizza with Z on it. <br>
<br>
I have no need to prove to anyone, that any of those things are
"better than" music Q, sexuality R, and pizza with S on it. And I
will fight for the right to full equality among people who prefer
music X or Q, sexuality Y or R, and pizza with Z or S on it. <br>
<br>
It will be a great day when people stop seeking to dominate each
other over matters of personal choice and personal taste. It will
be an even better day when people stop seeking to dominate each
other altogether, aside from consenting adult dom/sub play;-)<br>
<br>
-G. <br>
<br>
<br>
=====<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 13-05-05-Sun 12:29 PM, Sonja Trauss
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>mmm according to conservative readings of the bible, all
non-reproductive sex is sinful. masturbating and pulling out
are both sins, and in that way equivalent. So if you want to
throw around the 'puritanical' label, it would have to stick
to the idea that masturbation and sex are interchangeable,
and not the idea they they are two pretty different types of
activities. <br>
<br>
</div>
Other women should pipe up here, but the only people who have
ever tried to tell me that "masturbation is a type of sex"
have been men. No, masturbation is not sex. In the same way
that vitamin pills are not food. Masturbation is a thing too
thoroughly inferior to sex to be classed with it. I guess,
from a male pleasure point of view, they are equivalent, if
you cum from sex or you cum from jerking off, you cum, who
cares, but they are not equivalent from your gf's pov. I would
1000% prefer my partner to cum from fucking me than from
jerking off. I get nothing out of him jerking off, if he fucks
me I will almost surely cum. <br>
<br>
</div>
The idea that we should make more porn (for women!) has always
struck me as an example of men thinking women should be more
like men. Maybe women aren't that into porn, not because there's
not that much porn that women like, but because porn is lame and
boring. Maybe instead of women going against their natures and
learning to enjoy passively watching other people have sex, men
should go against their natures and learn to enjoy closing the
laptop, picking up the phone, waiting 15 minutes for your girl
to come over, and then fucking her. <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 1:58 AM, GtwoG
PublicOhOne <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:g2g-public01@att.net" target="_blank">g2g-public01@att.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
Sonja, Andrew, and Yo's-<br>
<br>
Whoa there! All this about "masturbation replacing sex"
reinforces an artificial duality that's ultimately founded
in puritanism, in which masturbation may not be "sinful"
but it's "not real sex."<br>
<br>
To paraphrase an old Campbell's Soup ad, "It's Sex for One
and that one is you!"<br>
<br>
What I personally find bizarre as hell, is the degree to
which our culture is so couple-normative, and the degree
to which sexual coupling is normalized and expected as the
primary axis on which lifetime relationships are based.
This when there's a near-infinite range of potential upon
which humans could base their relationships.<br>
<br>
Have you ever seen a couple that appeared to you to be
either overtly dysfunctional or just plain weird in the
manner of "what the hell could s/he possibly see in
him/her?!" The answer usually turns out to be "in bed,"
as in: they may be totally incompatible in all other ways,
but they have some unique kink in common, or just screw
like mad weasels, and apparently that's enough to keep
them together. <br>
<br>
Under all of this is the genetic competition algorithm,
that dates back to bacteria but seems remarkably incapable
of producing humans with the intelligence needed to
overcome war, climate change, and all the other forces of
our own making that threaten our near-extinction. In an
era where "the cybernetically-enhanced human" is a common
cultural meme, surely we can do better! <br>
<br>
Anyone who thinks that their precious genes are something
special (or that there is any such thing as a superior
race), is in for a rude awakening: we share well over 99%
of our genome with chimpanzees and bonobos. Selfish genes
helped us get from our birth as a species to the point
where our survival was assured. Since that time we have
overpopulated and overconsumed the planet, threatening our
own continued existence within our lifetimes. <br>
<br>
It's time to move beyond obedience to algorithms that no
longer serve us. <br>
<br>
-G.<br>
<br>
<br>
======
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 13-05-05-Sun 1:22 AM, Sonja Trauss wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>That study says nothing about whether
masturbation does or doesn't replace sex. It says
that teens who masturbate more have more sex,
which makes perfect sense. These are things that
you expect to see together, like umbrellas and
rubber boots, but you would never say that the
umbrella caused the boots, or vice versa. And this
study says nothing about whether sex causes
masturbation or the other way around.<br>
It also doesn't say anything about masturbation
with or without porn (although I wish it did). <br>
Masturbation is all well and good, of course, but
that's not sufficient to explain why porn is well
and good. <br>
I'm super curious. I can't experimentally not
watch porn and see what happens because I already
don't, but if any of you do, then you will be able
to tell me what you would be missing. </p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On May 5, 2013 12:43 AM,
"Andrew" <<a href="mailto:andrew@roshambomedia.com" target="_blank">andrew@roshambomedia.com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>Sonja,<br>
<br>
</div>
I disagree with your views on masturbation.
For one, I don't think that masturbation
causes people to have less sex. Here's a
study a found by googling I'm sure there is
more data to back up the fact that
masturbation does not reduce the amount of
sex someone is having.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/womens-health/articles/2011/08/01/study-tracks-masturbation-trends-among-us-teens" target="_blank">http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/womens-health/articles/2011/08/01/study-tracks-masturbation-trends-among-us-teens</a><br>
<br>
It is also just, in general a healthy
practice.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>second, I can masturbate without porn,
and with porn (as can most people).<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>I really believe that part of being sex
positive is also being accepting of
masturbation as natural and healthy.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>--Andrew<br>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, May 5, 2013
at 12:25 AM, Sonja Trauss <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sonja.trauss@gmail.com" target="_blank">sonja.trauss@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<p>Yeah .... so what if you didn't have
anything, and you couldn't concentrate.
Would you give up? Maybe the first day.
Maybe even the 2nd day, but eventually
you would be able to masterbate on your
own I bet.</p>
<p>I'm a girl and never encountered very
much porn I liked at all. I *guess* a
solution could be to make porn a girl
would like, but my solution was to have
sex instead, which has been overall
great. It's forced me to get in contact,
and stay in contact, with people I
otherwise wouldn't have. Making porn
that girls like, so they can join men in
having an activity that allows them to
have less sex, seems antisocial and a
step backwards. <br>
Yeah the more I think about this the
more absurd it seems that a crowd that
is interested in expanding the audience
for porn would overlap with a
'do-acracy' hackerspace crowd. Watching
porn is watching, not doing.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>On May 4, 2013 7:53 PM, "Andrew"
<<a href="mailto:andrew@roshambomedia.com" target="_blank">andrew@roshambomedia.com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<p>People want porn for somthing
easy to focus on while
masturbating. Masturbating being
a natural part of life. I also
dont think that all people who
can have sex with others, but
don't , are doing so because
they don't have the "skills"</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On May 4,
2013 7:20 PM, "Sonja Trauss"
<<a href="mailto:sonja.trauss@gmail.com" target="_blank">sonja.trauss@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<p>Or less representation of
sex altogether. What does
anyone need porn for?</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
May 4, 2013 7:10 PM,
"Andrew" <<a href="mailto:andrew@vagabondballroom.com" target="_blank">andrew@vagabondballroom.com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<p>When i ran an erotic
event in oakland our
crew made it a point to
balence genders as much
as possible. We had male
and female co-hosts and
male and female
strippers.</p>
<p>Also. Somthing to keep
in mind is that there
are more than two
genders. In my mind
objectification is not
the issue.
Representation is. Porn
is mostly filmed from a
hetero-cis-male
perspective and because
of that, taken as a
whole, is exploitive.
There is porn that
fights this perspective
and representation of
sex and there needs to
be more.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
May 4, 2013 6:55 PM,
"Sonja Trauss" <<a href="mailto:sonja.trauss@gmail.com" target="_blank">sonja.trauss@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<p>Can I get a link
for this gonorreah
story?</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
May 4, 2013 6:42 PM,
"GtwoG PublicOhOne"
<<a href="mailto:g2g-public01@att.net" target="_blank">g2g-public01@att.net</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Romy & Yo's-<br>
<br>
Re. "womens'
bodies with their
faces cut off."<br>
<br>
Wow. Thanks for
pointing that out.
I never noticed
that before (OTOH<br>
attempts to do
"sexy" in
advertising
generally don't
get my attention),<br>
but I vaguely
recall seeing ads
like that
somewhere.<br>
<br>
I agree, a torso
minus a face is
depersonalizing
and objectifying
as<br>
hell, unless
there's a very
good reason for
taking a photo
that way<br>
(e.g. medical
contexts). Being
looked at "that
way" produces the
creepy<br>
feeling that the
looker's
intentions are
non-consensual.<br>
<br>
The only
borderline-legit
reason I could see
for doing it in
clothing<br>
ads is, "we want
you to imagine
yourself wearing
this, and we don't
want<br>
to risk putting
you off by showing
a face that's
substantially
different<br>
to yours, so
imagine your face
on this person's
body." But it
would be<br>
foolish to think
that's what's
intended every
time that
photographic<br>
method is used.<br>
<br>
This brings up the
question of what
people find sexy
in photography.<br>
For me (gay male),
a photo minus a
face is a
non-starter:
there's no cue<br>
for communication
with the person.
Nudes in general
don't do it
either:<br>
all the usual
contextual cues as
to someone's
personality are
missing,<br>
so why would I
even begin to
imagine being in
an intimate
context with<br>
someone I don't
really know? I've
always felt that
way but now we
have<br>
the HIV pandemic
to reinforce it:
in general it's
not a good idea to
get<br>
intimate with
someone you don't
know very well,
because the
outcome<br>
could be a
life-threatening
illness.<br>
<br>
For that matter,
now that
massively-drug-resistant
gonorrhea is loose
in<br>
the USA, which is
hella' easier to
catch than HIV and
can kill you in a<br>
matter of days
through a raging
bacterial
infection, it's
probably a<br>
darn good idea for
everyone to "get
smart & play
safe" ALL the
time,<br>
zero exceptions,
even more so than
with HIV. In
which case
photography<br>
that portrays an
objectified
sexuality without
communications
isn't just<br>
gross and
exploitative, it's
a public health
hazard that
reinforces<br>
attitudes that put
people at risk for
their lives.<br>
<br>
-G.<br>
<br>
<br>
=====<br>
<br>
<br>
On 13-05-04-Sat
10:34 AM, Romy
Snowyla wrote:<br>
> It's
interesting to me
how porn a<br>
> Nd erotica
always advertise
with women's
bodies with their
faces cut off<br>
> American
apparel digs this
etc<br>
> Lots of art
theory discusses
this<br>
><br>
> I would love
for any Sudo room
event to break the
mold and show
men's bodies in
any erotic theme
as well ... Also
would love to see
the male body as
the focus of any
erotic film or
dance to balance
out the Imbalance
and unnatural
obsession with t
and a we see on
the porn industry<br>
><br>
> Sent from my
iPad<br>
>
_______________________________________________<br>
> sudo-discuss
mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org" target="_blank">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a><br>
><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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mailing list<br>
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<a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a><br>
</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
-------
<div>Andrew Lowe</div>
<div>Cell: <a href="tel:831-332-2507" value="+18313322507" target="_blank">831-332-2507</a></div>
<div><a href="http://roshambomedia.com" target="_blank">http://roshambomedia.com</a></div>
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</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
<br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
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</blockquote>
<br>
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</blockquote></div>