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    <br>
    Anthony & Yo's-<br>
    <br>
    Big Brother's cannibal menu is large, so there's no shortage of
    places to remove ourselves from it.  Whether or not it's possible to
    remove ourselves from all of it at once, isn't a good reason to
    declare pre-emptive surrender and give up all hope and all
    resistance.<br>
    <br>
    The FBI can prosecute you for crimes, but you can cross-examine them
    in court, in front of a jury.  But what happens when you get turned
    down for a job, or an apartment, or a mortgage, or credit, because
    of something in your online "profiles"?  The Bradley Mannings and
    Aaron Swartzes of the world are seen by many as heroes, whose
    struggles become causes.  But the unemployed and homeless of the
    world are seen as "losers," whose struggles are attributed to their
    own personal failings rather than the logical result of the
    oppressive grinding of the gears of oligarchy.<br>
    <br>
    More and more, employment applications and even credit applications
    are decided on the basis of "profiles," aka dossiers, that the
    privatized control-state collects on each and every one of us with
    our every mouse-click and typed word.  <br>
    <br>
    Which consequence is more likely to happen to any of us or anyone
    else we know?  That they'll become a political cause? or that
    they'll become an economic casualty?   How many people have been
    dragged off to Gitmo, vs. how many have been fired and foreclosed or
    evicted?  <br>
    <br>
    The fear of Gitmo is like the fear of being in an airplane crash: a
    horror to be sure, but a highly unlikely event.  But the fear of
    unemployment and homelessness is so pervasive it's like the stink of
    garbage for someone who lives next to a landfill: it's in the air we
    breathe to the point where we almost don't bother commenting on it. 
    None the less it lingers in the background, stinking up our homes
    and clothes, interfering with the taste of our food, causing a
    constant low-level headache to the point where popping aspirin seems
    like the normal state of affairs.  <br>
    <br>
    The private-sector Stasi, the private control-state, is where the
    power is, and where the power is actually used, on a mass scale that
    impacts millions of lives including each of our own. <br>
    <br>
    As for "every telephone conversation," why do you think I'm trying
    to build an alternative telco?  The mason works with concrete, the
    carpenter works with wood, the plumber works with water pipes, the
    electrician works with wires, and the roofer works with shingles. 
    Each by themselves can't build the whole house, but all of them
    working together, can.  <br>
    <br>
    -G.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    =====<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 13-05-05-Sun 10:20 PM, Anthony Di
      Franco wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAOJkv1q86eDR5Z0Dp+k+_4sozxG3ZUFRoVtrBvw1pV14gqMbcA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'arial
          narrow',sans-serif">We should be clear that the part of our
          collective memory that is made publicly searchable by Google
          et. al. is only a slice of the feast on Big Brother's cannibal
          menu:</div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'arial
          narrow',sans-serif"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/04/telephone-calls-recorded-fbi-boston">http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/04/telephone-calls-recorded-fbi-boston</a><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'arial
          narrow',sans-serif">
          <blockquote class="" style="padding:0px 0px 0px
            45px;margin:0px 40px 10px
            0px;border-collapse:collapse;color:rgb(102,102,102);background-image:url(http://static.guim.co.uk/static/2893e1c331bc96900e0b9d7d6ef715d337bf53e9/common/styles/images/quote_red.gif);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:18px;background-repeat:no-repeat
            no-repeat">
            <p style="padding:0px;margin:0px 0px
              13px;border-collapse:collapse;background-repeat:no-repeat
              no-repeat">BURNETT: Tim, is there any way, obviously,
              there is a voice mail they can try to get the phone
              companies to give that up at this point. It's not a voice
              mail. It's just a conversation. There's no way they
              actually can find out what happened, right, unless she
              tells them?</p>
            <p style="padding:0px;margin:0px 0px
              13px;border-collapse:collapse;background-repeat:no-repeat
              no-repeat">CLEMENTE: "No, <em
                style="padding:0px;margin:0px;border-collapse:collapse;background-repeat:no-repeat
                no-repeat">there is a way. We certainly have ways in
                national security investigations to find out exactly
                what was said in that conversation.</em> It's not
              necessarily something that the FBI is going to want to
              present in court, but it may help lead the investigation
              and/or lead to questioning of her. We certainly can find
              that out.</p>
            <p style="padding:0px;margin:0px 0px
              13px;border-collapse:collapse;background-repeat:no-repeat
              no-repeat">BURNETT: "So they can actually get that? People
              are saying, look, that is incredible.</p>
            <p style="padding:0px;margin:0px 0px
              13px;border-collapse:collapse;background-repeat:no-repeat
              no-repeat">
              CLEMENTE: "No, <em
                style="padding:0px;margin:0px;border-collapse:collapse;background-repeat:no-repeat
                no-repeat">welcome to America. All of that stuff is
                being captured as we speak whether we know it or like it
                or not</em>."</p>
          </blockquote>
          <p style="padding:0px;margin:0px 0px
            13px;border-collapse:collapse;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px;line-height:18px;background-repeat:no-repeat
            no-repeat">"All of that stuff" - meaning every telephone
            conversation Americans have with one another on US soil,
            with or without a search warrant - "is being captured as we
            speak"</p>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'arial
          narrow',sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 7:06 PM, GtwoG
          PublicOhOne <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:g2g-public01@att.net" target="_blank">g2g-public01@att.net</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
              Rabbit & Yo's-<br>
              <br>
              Here's another vote for "yes we should have a list that's
              not indexed by Google."  <br>
              <br>
              Given the choice between posting to a list that's a direct
              surveillance-feed and one that isn't, many of us will take
              our discussion to the latter.  (Would you rather cuddle
              with your friends under a surveillance camera, or under a
              tree?)<br>
              <br>
              But let's not call it "ephemeral," because that word, in
              this context, is a white flag of surrender.  It's
              surrender to the idea that Google is the one and only
              keeper of cultural memory, and anything else is merely
              transient.  It's surrender to corporate power and the
              control state.  <br>
              <br>
              We should assert the right to our own collective memory,
              stored on our own devices, accessible to our own
              community.  The place for the kind of broadcast that
              becomes an appetizer on Big Brother's cannibal menu, is
              when the broadcast is something that'll give Big Brother
              indigestion.  <br>
              <br>
              Let Google eat our manifestos, proclamations, and press
              releases.  But not our soul-searches, our occasional
              bickering, our existential angst, or our vulnerable
              self-revealing philosophizing about sex, religion, and the
              meaning of life.  <br>
              <br>
              -G.<br>
              <br>
              <br>
              =====
              <div>
                <div class="h5"><br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <div>On 13-05-05-Sun 5:16 PM, Rabbit wrote:<br>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                <div>
                  <div class="h5">
                    <div dir="ltr">
                      <div>Just a reminder that the archives of this
                        list are indexed by Google.<br>
                      </div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>(For this reason I'm keeping pretty quiet
                        here.  Would anyone else like to have a list
                        which is not indexed?  How about
                        "sudo-ephemeral"?)<br>
                      </div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>-Rabbit</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <br>
                    <fieldset></fieldset>
                    <br>
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