HOW DOES THE FOOD GET TO THE HIGHRISES!??!?! If only .... People could .... Hold groceries ... In ... i don't know .... Their arms?!?!?! While standing in some kind of box .... That moves vertically. It's all just too hard to imagine. Surely there is no place on earth where people live in high rise apartment buildings. <span></span><div>
<br>On Tuesday, June 11, 2013, Jehan Tremback wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Are you telling us that high density urban housing is not more efficient than sprawled out rural housing? Keep in mind that the vast majority of people will not be subsistence farming. Also, as it relates to the Bay, people are not going to be going back to the land because of SF rent. They will move to Walnut Creek and sit in traffic for 2 hours a day, burning gas.<div>
<br></div><div>-Jehan</div></div><div><br><br><div>On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 6:01 PM, GtwoG PublicOhOne <span dir="ltr"><<a>g2g-public01@att.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<br>
Hi Jehan;-)<br>
<br>
Ahh, the good ol' city mouse vs. country mouse arguement. If we
avoid ad-homs this should be fun.<br>
<br>
First of all, a-priori generalizations are a-priori invalid.
Individual ecological impact depends on lifestyle and employment,
which vary widely for both city and country. <br>
<br>
One of the largest impacts is commuting by automobile. A country
mouse who's a telecommuter will have a zero commuting impact. A
city mouse whose workplace isn't served by public transport will
most likely end up driving to work. That comparison, in and of
itself, falsifies your generalization. <br>
<br>
Are you willing to argue publicly that all the city mice whose
places of employment aren't served by public transport, or who work
late/overnight shift and live or work in places where taking public
transport is overtly dangerous, should quit their jobs and seek
employment elsewhere? <br>
<br>
Re. smaller apartments: Can you operationalize your variables? How
small? Have you ever drawn a floorplan for one? I've drawn plenty
of floorplans, down to 160 square feet, and I'll gladly show them to
you any time we have a chance to get together. <br>
<br>
Re. highrises: Can you operationalize those variables too? How
does the water get in, how does the sewage get out, and where does
the money come from to rip & replace the existing underground
infrastructure for that purpose? And what do you do with a 10- or
20- story building full of people, after the expected 7.0+ on the
Hayward or San Andreas takes out the power grid, water mains, and
sewer mains, for a period of weeks to months? (We'll assume the
building remains standing, though that can't be taken for granted.)<br>
<br>
Also about highrises, what do the children do at playtime?, where
does the food come from to feed all those people in the high-density
highrises?, and how does the food get there? Who has ownership?
Who has control? Who makes the rules? <br>
<br>
Sweeping generalizations are easy; designing in detail and walking
the talk isn't. <br>
<br>
In the next round I'll describe what I do about water, electricity,
gasoline, and refuse.<br>
<br>
Cheers- <br>
<br>
-G.<br>
<br>
<br>
=====<div><div><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 13-06-11-Tue 9:34 AM, Jehan Tremback
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">"Also
there's a difference between a 160-square-foot house you build
for yourself on land you and your friends own, and a
160-square-foot cell in an apartment complex that some
developer builds as a means of extracting more money from the
tenants."</span><br>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</span></div>
<div>If you want to go out to the country
and build a house on cheap land, that's your choice. You will
be damaging the environment with your inevitable automobile
use. If you want to live in the city, as many of us do, you
will have to deal with the fact that many other people do as
well.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There are 2 ways to get more people
onto a smaller piece of land-</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1. Smaller apartments (I put tenants
subdividing apartments in this category as well)</div>
<div>2. Replace 1950's style suburban houses
with high rises.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>These facts are completely
independent of whatever system of government and economy.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Jehan<br>
<br>
<div>On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 4:32 AM,
GtwoG PublicOhOne <span dir="ltr"><<a>g2g-public01@att.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
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