<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial narrow,sans-serif">Here's to SELC. I've looked at some co-op options with members of their circle before for other projects. If anyone wants to join me at their next event, do! and we'll raise these questions.<br>
</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial narrow,sans-serif"><span class="">Tue, July 23, 6:00pm – 8:30pm</span> at hub Berkeley, <span class=""></span><span class="">2150 Allston Way, Suite 400<br></span></div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Eddan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:eddan@clear.net" target="_blank">eddan@clear.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div>When I've asked around for suggestions of who to talk to about this stuff, coming from the perspective we're coming from, and all roads lead to the Sustainable Economies Law Center (<a href="http://www.theselc.org/" target="_blank">http://www.theselc.org/</a>). If you haven't been to any of their events - these people are pretty awesome. They host regular Legal Cafes where anyone can ask a wide range of questions and find out for themselves what the deal is, including different options for the very things we're talking about. They also do regular Happy Hours where you can meet like-minded folks - there was one nearby at Make Westing last week.<br>
<br>It was in fact from Janelle Orsi, its Executive Director, that I got the idea that 501(c)(7) may be most appropriate. I got a chance to speak to her about Sudo Room at the last Legal Cafe event. She has her own law practice (<a href="http://janelleorsi.com/" target="_blank">http://janelleorsi.com/</a>), and its my understanding that there's a long line of organizations who want to work with her. Interestingly, the SELC have seriously considered getting an office next to Sudo Room and still have not settled on any (semi-)/permanent location.<br>
<br></div><div>Recommendations for who else is best to talk to, especially in relation to crowd-funding, have also inevitably led to another founder of the SELC - Jenny Kassan. She's a partner at K2 Legal downtown here on Broadway (<a href="http://k2-legal.com/aboutus/ourteam/jenny/" target="_blank">http://k2-legal.com/aboutus/ourteam/jenny/</a>). She is also the CEO of Cutting Edge Capital (<a href="http://www.cuttingedgecapital.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cuttingedgecapital.com/</a>), who seem to consistently break new ground for finding possible ways to raise money in a cooperative structure. When I spoke to her recently, she intimated that they may have a crowd-funding platform operational in the next few months. She also mentioned that they would be looking for a whole bunch of new projects as candidates for launch on this platform. She was very pleased to hear that there are a lot of interesting and ambitious projects being hacked and hatched here at Sudo Room.<br>
<br></div><div>The other organization that always comes up when I've asked around is the East Bay Community Law Center (EBCLC) (<a href="http://www.ebclc.org/" target="_blank">http://www.ebclc.org/</a>), which is also connected to Berkeley Law School Clinics. This is also an impressive and inspiring organization. They host the Neighborhood Justice Clinic (<a href="http://www.ebclc.org/njc.php" target="_blank">http://www.ebclc.org/njc.php</a>) open to the public and helpful in getting questions answered.<br>
<br></div></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 11:07 AM, mark burdett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mfburdett@gmail.com" target="_blank">mfburdett@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I'd say talk to a lawyer about this first, because the typical 501(c)3 is a corporation - the usual route is incorporating and then awaiting tax exempt status for the corporation.<div>
<br>
<div><div>(On the other hand, an LLC could make sense if sudoroom wants to keep around a non-501(c)3 entity that doesn't have all the restrictions of a tax exempt org... I know some enterprising (literally) artists who have created both LLCs and non-profit orgs so they can get grants and also operate as a business....)</div>
<div><br></div><div>See also <a href="http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/nonprofit-tax-exempt-status-501c3-30124.html" target="_blank">http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/nonprofit-tax-exempt-status-501c3-30124.html</a><br>
</div><div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:19px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:19px">This section requires that you attach a copy of </span><a href="http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/nonprofit-formation-documents-articles-incorporation-bylaws-minutes-30311.html" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(0,102,153);line-height:19px" target="_blank">your articles of incorporation and your bylaws</a><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:19px"> to the application form. (Most nonprofits seeking 501(c)(3) status are corporations. If your entity is an </span><a href="http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/limited-liability-company" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(0,102,153);line-height:19px" target="_blank">LLC</a><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:19px">, </span><a href="http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/five-reasons-incorporate-nonprofit-association-30266.html" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(0,102,153);line-height:19px" target="_blank">unincorporated association</a><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:19px">, or nonprofit trust, you should </span><a href="http://www.nolo.com/lawyers" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(0,102,153);line-height:19px" target="_blank">seek the help of a lawyer</a><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:19px"> with experience in nonprofit tax law to complete your Form 1023 application.)</span><br>
</div><div><br></div><div>--mark B.</div></div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Marina Kukso <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:marina.kukso@gmail.com" target="_blank">marina.kukso@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>thanks bill, very helpful!<br><br>what are the advantages to filing as an LLC?<br><br></div>also, i think that jenny recently had a call with james from the school factory - jenny, could you possibly share some of what you both discussed?<span><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>- marina<br></font></span></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 10:43 AM, William Budington <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bill@inputoutput.io" target="_blank">bill@inputoutput.io</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hey all,<br>
<br>
I talked to Danny O'Brien (Noisebridge's financial functionary)<br>
yesterday about the sudoroom legal status. I know this has been an<br>
ongoing discussion so I'm going to summarize the options we've already<br>
looked into and present the new information Danny has brought to my<br>
attention.<br>
<br>
*Why do we need a legal status?*<br>
Over the past few months we've found various challenges to our normal<br>
operations since we don't have a legal status. We aren't able to sign<br>
up for services like Stripe without having a federal tax id. In<br>
addition, since we are formally under one person's name, he is liable if<br>
anything happens at sudoroom. Also, we aren't able to sign up for most<br>
banks -- only the Community Bank of the Bay will actually give us a bank<br>
account with our status as a DBA. And as we've seen, Community Bank of<br>
the Bay is not the most web-savvy organization, and so it's hard for us<br>
to actually check our balances.<br>
<br>
*What we've looked at*<br>
Our eventual goal has been to get 501(c)3 status for sudoroom. This is<br>
a status that would allow us to accept tax-deductible donations and be<br>
incorporated formally as a nonprofit. A lot of Hacker Spaces go this<br>
route, and it seems like a reasonable long-term goal. One of the<br>
problems we've been warned of is that it takes a long time to actually<br>
be granted 501(c)3 status - upwards of 2 years, which can as I<br>
understand be expedited to 10 months.<br>
<br>
Because of this delay, we've looked into some other options -- namely<br>
being umbrella'd under another organization's 501(c)3 status. This<br>
would involve 10% of our revenue going to said umbrella organization to<br>
cover costs of the books. I've been in contact with Danny at<br>
Noisebridge and Jenny has been in contact with (Steve?) at the School<br>
Factory and discussing if this is a possibility. It is certainly one<br>
way to go, but as for Noisebridge they've only umbrella'd Noisetor, and<br>
they didn't need a separate account for that.<br>
<br>
*What I've learned recently*<br>
Danny mentioned that his partner is looking into nonprofit status for a<br>
new feminist hacker space in SF, and has investigated these options as<br>
well as others. In order to have a certain degree of autonomy, it is<br>
probably in our interests to actually not go the umbrella route and<br>
pursue separate legal status altogether. He also mentioned that there's<br>
no reason why we couldn't incorporate as an LLC or other corporate<br>
status before pursuing 501c3 status, and that even if it takes a number<br>
of years to be granted non-profit status we can transition from an LLC<br>
without much of a problem. There's no real disadvantage to having LLC<br>
status in the meantime, as I understand it. The main advantage of<br>
nonprofit status is tax deduction, but that is usually superseded on<br>
most peoples taxes by the standard deduction. The main place where it<br>
does make a difference is when employers do matching donations for their<br>
employees, then it can make a difference.<br>
<br>
*The plan*<br>
It makes sense to me to pursue the options that would resolve our<br>
short-term problems without impeding the path to our long-term goals.<br>
It seems to me reasonable as a short-term goal to register as an LLC<br>
(Jenny tells me this can be done in an afternoon and with $50 with a<br>
drive to Sacramento), and as a longer term goal actually pursuing<br>
nonprofit, 501c3 status.<br>
<br>
*Disclaimer*<br>
There may be caveats to this plan and I'm not a lawyer.<br>
<br>
<br>
Bill<br>
<br>
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