<div dir="ltr"><div><div>>> and Boehners don't only rule in Congress<br><br></div>I'm glad that there's at least one other person out there who knows the right way to pronounce this guy's name.<br><br>
</div>Thanks for the laugh, G.<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 12:53 AM, GtwoG PublicOhOne <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:g2g-public01@att.net" target="_blank">g2g-public01@att.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
<br>
Re. Andrew Milmoe:<br>
<br>
"Shotspotters use microphones as a sensor for triangulating the location<br>
of a specifically shaped sound... ...there are monumentally easier and<br>
less expensive ways to capture and store audio."<br>
<br>
Thanks for shedding some rational light on the topic. I'd be interested<br>
to hear more about what you're doing, and what your thoughts are about<br>
the proliferation of various kinds of sensors in the ambient social<br>
environment.<br>
<br>
Re. Shawn:<br>
<br>
"...the advantages [of "smart"phones] include things like providing<br>
<div class="im">driving directions, access to email from multiple locations, making<br>
phone calls. The sort of thing that gets you laid. I think asking people<br>
to page me would have a profound negative impact on my sex life."<br>
<br>
</div>OK, I'll concede that point. It's all about _guys getting laid_.<br>
Privacy doesn't hold a candle to testosterone, and Boehners don't only<br>
rule in Congress. Especially when someone's pursuing casual encounters<br>
so often that they constantly need driving directions to find them, and<br>
check-ins from on the road just in case.<br>
<br>
As for me, I get my driving directions from a Panasonic GPS that doesn't<br>
spy on me (Panasonic has never had a scandal of any kind), I read my<br>
email when I'm in places where I can reply to it without distractions,<br>
and my 1935 rotary dial phone has better audio than an iPhone, with the<br>
added bonus that when it's on the hook, the mic is completely cut off so<br>
nobody can listen in.<br>
<br>
Seriously though.<br>
<br>
Roving wiretaps: Dude, I know more about SIGINT and lawful intercept<br>
than most people this side of a TS clearance with SCI tabs.<br>
<br>
Android and Siri commands: Are you absolutely certain about that? Have<br>
you analyzed all the code down to the level of the boot-loader? Trust<br>
in software can be truly touching sometimes...<br>
<br>
RF detector: Great, thanks for the link; if it works as intended I'll<br>
promote it around.<br>
<br>
Re. "50 fewer phones out of a population of 380,000 in Oakland." I'd<br>
say that's a better outcome than 50 fewer Shotspotters in the Robbery<br>
Capital of America. BTW, your assumption that everyone in that<br>
population of 380,000 has one, isn't empirically correct.<br>
<br>
Re. "How about if the moon were suddenly made of cheese?" Ask anyone<br>
who was alive during Watergate what they would have thought if someone<br>
had suggested, in the 1970s, that in the 21st century people would<br>
eagerly carry around devices with software-controlled microphones,<br>
cameras, and tracking transmitters, all with effectively unlimited<br>
range. On the other hand, the "drop-in transmitter" and suchlike that<br>
were available to Nixon, didn't get guys laid.<br>
<br>
Re. "What are you doing now about this stuff?" Promoting the usual<br>
tools, talking to people who are in positions to have effects on policy,<br>
some other stuff I'll say more about when it's ready & working, some<br>
other stuff I don't talk about in public, arguing various points in<br>
public places such as this one, and denying being a Luddite.<br>
<br>
Re. "sitting in my ivory tower." Ad-homs work better when they're<br>
creative & funny. How'bout "chasing squirrels around the yard whilst<br>
claiming to be the reincarnation of Heath Robinson"? There now, that<br>
hits the mark and has a satisfying ring to it!<br>
<br>
Gotta scoot; three work requests from clients that have to be done<br>
tonight...<br>
<br>
Cheers-<br>
<br>
-G. (that would be "Heath Robinson II" to you, sir!;-)<br>
<br>
<br>
=====<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
On 13-10-15-Tue 9:13 PM, Shawn Lesniak wrote:<br>
> On 2013-10-15 18:21, GtwoG PublicOhOne wrote:<br>
><br>
>> "Roving wiretaps." Like when Apple collected GPS data from iPhones and<br>
>> publicly posted the users' locations and movements? That was an<br>
>> immediate danger to the life of anyone who was a stalking victim. Like<br>
>> the voice command apps, that require the microphone to be always-on,<br>
>> listening for keywords, relaying them to a corporate server-farm to be<br>
>> processed? Do you know what other keywords are on that list, aside from<br>
>> the ones they tell you about?<br>
>><br>
> Roving wiretaps have a specific meaning<br>
> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roving_wiretap" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roving_wiretap</a><br>
> If you would like to willfully ignore well-established meanings of words<br>
> don't be surprised when people choose to stop talking to you.<br>
><br>
> My phone runs Android 4.3 and it won't take dictation commands unless<br>
> Google Now is in the foreground or I press the microphone at an input<br>
> screen. IIRC, Siri on iOS requires tapping the home button 3 times to<br>
> activate.<br>
><br>
>> "Wireshark or a cell signal detector." I've used Wireshark to<br>
>> troubleshoot VOIP, and it is not something that laypeople would be able<br>
>> to use. If there's a cell signal detector that's layperson-usable, I'd<br>
>> love to know about it. (I have a standing design for a "blackout box"<br>
>> that will enable someone to put their "smart"phone in it and block<br>
>> surveillance while being able to ring on incoming phone calls.)<br>
>><br>
> Have fun trying to fake the location and yet stay in contact with towers<br>
> close enough to be useful.<br>
> Easy to use cell phone detector:<br>
> <a href="http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/product/rf+signal+detector+ii.do" target="_blank">http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/product/rf+signal+detector+ii.do</a><br>
> If you don't like that one, you could just as easily find plenty more by<br>
> using the search engine of your choice to search for cell phone detectors.<br>
><br>
>> "The look of Shotspotter is a secret and afaik we can't even know<br>
>> exactly where they are for that reason." That's just poor marketing by<br>
>> Shotspotter. Shotspotter needs to get cool looking enclosures with<br>
>> patented round corners, and an "app" you can buy for $2, and have hip<br>
>> sexy celebrities Oooh and Aaah about them. Then everyone will want<br>
>> one;-) (Ad concept: pop music star holding up iPhone with Shotspotter<br>
>> app on it. Sound effect: repetitive rapid gunfire. Celebrity voice:<br>
>> "It's the rhythm of the city! Tune it in, with Shotspotter!")<br>
>><br>
> I think that's good marketing, if you don't, you don't have your finger<br>
> on the pulse of the police state.<br>
><br>
>> "The ownership of a smartphone is voluntary..." And having<br>
>> conversations within earshot of someone else's smartphone that you can't<br>
>> see, isn't voluntary. Though, per Google's court filing that claims<br>
>> that anyone who communicates with a GMail user consents to be spied on<br>
>> by Google, I suppose one could come up with a similar interpretation for<br>
>> conversations conducted in earshot of someone else's mobile surveillance<br>
>> device.<br>
>><br>
> Yes it is, in cities like SF and Oakland, if someone is within earshot,<br>
> there's a smartphone within earshot too. If you think they're all<br>
> picking up all conversations or all conversations with keywords just set<br>
> up a speaker to speak 'sarin bomb al-qaeda active shooter'.<br>
><br>
> You're probably proposing that everyone on this list throw out their<br>
> phone, so let's pretend that we're going to do that. There are now<br>
> (let's say) 50 fewer phones out of a population of 380,000 in Oakland.<br>
><br>
>> "Voluntary" is a slippery word, whereby manipulation of "consumers" is<br>
>> regularly justified. Have you read every EULA you've clicked "OK" on?<br>
>> Fine print at the bottom of a "user agreement" doesn't hold a candle to<br>
>> the frequent appearance of hip sexy celebrities Ooohing and Aaahing over<br>
>> the latest piece of self-surveillance hardware.<br>
>><br>
> I do. It's easy when they're mostly GPL thrust upon users as EULA (GPL<br>
> is a distribution license, not a EULA).<br>
><br>
>> "Provides advantages" vs. "thrust upon us." Advantages like lower cost<br>
>> to taxpayers for transcribing conversations recorded at closer range?<br>
>> "Thrust upon us" like the disappearance of anonymous-cash-paid public<br>
>> telephones that used to be on every street corner? Or is everything<br>
>> justifiable in exchange for "convenience" and Angry Birds? (When<br>
>> Microsoft put Solitaire on Windows, people were cynical. But Angry<br>
>> Birds and Farmville?)<br>
> You should talk to someone with a smart phone sometime. Maybe you'll<br>
> see that the advantages include things like providing driving<br>
> directions, access to email from multiple locations, making phone calls.<br>
> The sort of thing that gets you laid. I think asking people to page me<br>
> would have a profound negative impact on my sex life.<br>
><br>
>> What level of invasiveness would be sufficient to make that "voluntary"<br>
>> transaction a bad bargain?<br>
>><br>
> That's up to the user. You can sit in your ivory tower all day and<br>
> night and think people are stupid, but in the end you've likely made 0<br>
> people give a fuck.<br>
> I'm against surveillance, so I spoke at city council against DAC, I've<br>
> taught at crypto parties and otherwise. I'm building up my chops to<br>
> make more contributions to privacy software. I care about taking steps<br>
> that people will actually follow. If I stood on the street corner<br>
> telling people to delete their Facebook and throw out their smart phone<br>
> no one will follow that advice.<br>
><br>
>> How'bout "smellavision" (ambient chemical sensors) where the<br>
>> "smart"phone picks up smells in its vicinity, for example the scent of<br>
>> recreational marijuana? How'bout a "smart" EEG sensor that gives you<br>
>> the "convenience" of not having to say a word: just think the thought?<br>
> How about if the moon were suddenly made of cheese?<br>
><br>
>> How'bout all your phone calls being recorded in realtime by default? I<br>
>> didn't believe this one either, until a few months ago, when I heard it<br>
>> straight from a proverbial horse's mouth.<br>
>><br>
> RedPhone, SilentPhone. Mark Klein said this was happening in 2005 and<br>
> apparently it was happening since February 2001. Again, it's really<br>
> hard to get people to care, but I do. I've gotten dozens using these<br>
> tools, how many cell phones have you got people to throw away?<br>
><br>
><br>
>> Where do you draw the line in the sand, and what do you do when it's<br>
>> crossed?<br>
>><br>
>> Or is it "OK" if these intrusions are introduced slowly enough for<br>
>> people to "get used to them," frog-in-boiling-water style? First GPS,<br>
>> then always-on microphones, then one camera per device, then two cameras<br>
>> (front and back) per device, then speech recognition (constant<br>
>> monitoring of the microphone, as I said: what else is on that keyword<br>
>> list?).<br>
>><br>
> Cell phone detector + reciting likely trigger words. Cameras can be<br>
> dealt with using adhesive bandages (they don't leave residue over the lens).<br>
><br>
>> What next? Here's one example of "what next." Microsoft plans to<br>
>> introduce a permanent replacement for cookies, embedded in Windows, that<br>
>> will track people even more aggressively and will be impossible to turn<br>
>> off. Google, Apple, and Amazon are doing likewise. And if anyone here<br>
>> thinks that's only about "personalized advertising," I have a bridge for<br>
>> sale, cheap.<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/private-tracking-arms-race/" target="_blank">http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/private-tracking-arms-race/</a><br>
>><br>
> Those aren't here yet and it's hard to tell what's fact and what's<br>
> fiction in regards to the future of online tracking. There are loads of<br>
> tools like privoxy, adblock, ghostery, Tor Browser Bundle and Tails<br>
> available. Now get people using them. Adblock is the easiest sell<br>
> possible, run this and the ads go away.<br>
> It is important to keep our eyes to the future, but not to the extent<br>
> that we should ignore what's going on today. What are you doing now<br>
> about this stuff?<br>
><br>
>> Principle: If it's not-OK for government to do something, it's not-OK<br>
>> for corporate interests to do the same thing. That's the core of the<br>
>> difference between left-libertarianism and right-libertarianism.<br>
>><br>
> What? Since when did this become libertarian-talk? Where does this<br>
> principle come from? Is the converse true?<br>
><br>
>> Keyphrase: "predict and control."<br>
> Keyphrase: Allah (pbuh) airplane September 11th, sarin gas underwear bomb<br>
><br>
<br>
</div></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">_______________________________________________<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Tony Barreca<br>LinkedIn: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/tonybarreca">http://www.linkedin.com/in/tonybarreca</a><br>Skype: tonybarreca<br>Twitter: tbarreca<br>
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