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David: <br>
<br>
I'm not telepathic enough to know what he MEANT, but what he SAID
was off-the-scale obnoxious and offensive. <br>
<br>
YEAH, we all have to be aware of our surroundings, and blah blah
blah. <br>
<br>
Guess what? It doesn't make a damn bit of difference. Look at the
crime maps of Oakland. The whole fucking downtown is a fucking war
zone, up and down Broadway, at all times including in broad
daylight. <br>
<br>
Meanwhile SudoList lurches between the looney left and the looney
right: "fuck the police" one week, and "you're on your own, bub" the
next week, while the door keypad is a broken mess and you could
bleed to death on the street trying to get into the building. That
plus lax password policy, which Max is thankfully trying to change,
before "be aware of your surroundings" also ends up meaning "because
they might get inside."<br>
<br>
And since they DID get inside your HOME, should you have carried a
pistol in your home as well?<br>
<br>
How'bout hire a professional security contractor to install a
reliable door entry system? Or are we also supposed to pretend we
know how to perform open-heart surgery, after all, it begins with
the word "open" as in "free beer," so why not?<br>
<br>
Let's be clear about this: looney left anti-police bravado, and
looney right you're-on-your-own-bub bravado, add up to a hill of
horse shit. If the city is crawling with predators, the problem
isn't you or I or even Chris Ad-Hom Hand Grenade Bee: the problem is
the fucking predators, and the thing to do with them is lock them up
where they can't prey on people who are merely trying to live their
lives. <br>
<br>
And I am NOT accusing Chris Bee of siding with the muggers. I'm
accusing him of espousing the looney right wing you're-on-your-own
bullshit, wrapped up in looney left language about entitlement. <br>
<br>
People damn well ARE entitled to walk down the fucking street
without being in constant fear for their lives. <br>
<br>
Enough was enough a few thousand murders, rapes, and robberies ago.
<br>
<br>
-G.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
======<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 13-12-02-Mon 7:22 PM, David Keenan
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CABhLtjzERpt1qpHbXvhodC3tg0XiivnJynCZ+kTWkY+sZqF8Mw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Whoa! I don't think Chris is saying 'Blame the victim'
at all. We've probably all been in dicey situations and been
threatened at the very least, emotions run high on this issue but
I'd urge you not to channel your anger around that on Chris. To my
mind, he's just saying we all have to be aware of our surroundings
and safety no matter where we are, which makes sense. Not that its
the victim's fault. As Bruce Schneier has outlined, there are
tradeoffs between freedom and safety that we navigate every day -
sometimes we suffer because of it, and that fucking sucks, but
does that mean we all should move to the suburbs? I've been robbed
in my own home, which feels a damn sight safer than walking down
Broadway, and I think that was Chris's point. Please don't accuse
him of siding with muggers or some such sentiment. No one's going
there -<span></span>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>Love,</div>
<div>David<br>
<br>
On Monday, December 2, 2013, GtwoG PublicOhOne wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
Re. Sonja: <br>
<br>
Exactly what I've done: not gone back to SudoRoom after
having had a gun pointed at my guts right in the doorway.
Chances are at least one person reading this is pleased with
that outcome, but at least four I know aren't.<br>
<br>
Re. ChrisBee: <br>
<br>
Right, blame the fucking victims, three or four of us that I
know of who've been robbed, assaulted, or had car windows
smashed and stuff stolen coming & going from SR or
parked nearby, and possibly one or two I missed. <br>
<br>
Let's see, where have we heard your line of bullshit
before?... she shouldn't have been wearing those clothes
either...? I take it you agree with that too.<br>
<br>
I'll quote you directly for what comes next, just so the
context of my reply is clear:<br>
<br>
"Feel free to disagree with me, but when I hear/read
discussions about this based around "how safe is so-and-so
compared to such-and-such area" I think "Wow, if that isn't
privilege/entitlement/self-absorption then I don't know what
is." Not saying that any of you are, but I'm just saying."
<br>
<br>
So it's "privilege/entitlement/self-absorption" to value
being in a safe location where you're less likely to be
subjected to violence on the street? I'm going to say
something to you that I haven't said to anyone in a damn
long time: Go fuck yourself. <br>
<br>
-G.<br>
<br>
<br>
=====<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 13-12-02-Mon 6:02 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">Yeah but what if taking
responsibility for your safety means not going where
you've been robbed before? <span></span><br>
<br>
On Monday, December 2, 2013, Chris Bee wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>(shakes head, sighs)<br>
</div>
<div><br>
I've said it before and I'll say it again...in
most cases, putting the onus of personal safety on
a neighborhood is totally missing the point that
YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY, full
stop. Saying that you are (relatively) more or
less safe depending on where you are
is...is...well, it's wrong thinking on so many
levels that I don't even know where to begin.<br>
<br>
</div>
Feel free to disagree with me, but when I hear/read
discussions about this based around "how safe is
so-and-so compared to such-and-such area" I think
"Wow, if that isn't
privilege/entitlement/self-absorption then I don't
know what is." Not saying that any of you are, but
I'm just saying. I like and respect my sudo
peoples...a lot. That's why I'm pointing this out. I
don't want anyone to be lulled into a false sense of
security/anxiety by thinking that just because
you're in one area bad shit is less prone to happen
to you, or vice versa. It's on all of us to be aware
of what's going on around us and to be prepared to
deal with whatever situations may come our way,
alone or otherwise. Good Samaritans notwithstanding,
the cops are...well, the odds of them being there
when you "need" them (I personally don't) are next
to nil, and they only seem to make things
complicated after the fact. <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>What we should be focused on is locating an
affordable space that meets the needs of
BAPS/sudo/CCL.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Sorry if I seem a little impatient but I've seen
too many important discussions get derailed like
this, and right now I think this is pretty high on
our list of immediate concerns.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>And again, If anyone wants to straighten me out
on this issue I'm all ears/eyes. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Respectfully, <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>-chrisbee<br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Sonja Trauss <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true">sonja.trauss@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"> Oh man I'm I total
idiot, I just realized where 8th and Alice is -
I saw "8th st" and "near BART" and thought you
were talking about w Oakland BART.
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
<span></span>
<div> <br>
On Tuesday, November 26, 2013, Pete
Forsyth wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Sonja, given that -- as
you say -- West Oakland is "pretty
mixed" racially and culturally, what
is it that leads you to conclude
that Amber was talking about black
people, and commenting on race?
<div> <br>
</div>
<div>Pete</div>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:13
AM, Sonja Trauss <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true">sonja.trauss@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">Yeah you
need to give black people more
credit. Did you know, some of
them like coffee shops also?
some of them can read? Some of
them have computers? Some of
them might become sudo members?
Black people are pretty similar
to </blockquote>
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