Chris maybe wasn't trying to say 'blame the victim,' but that is definitely what he wound up saying. <span></span><br><br>On Monday, December 2, 2013, David Keenan wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Whoa! I don't think Chris is saying 'Blame the victim' at all. We've probably all been in dicey situations and been threatened at the very least, emotions run high on this issue but I'd urge you not to channel your anger around that on Chris. To my mind, he's just saying we all have to be aware of our surroundings and safety no matter where we are, which makes sense. Not that its the victim's fault. As Bruce Schneier has outlined, there are tradeoffs between freedom and safety that we navigate every day - sometimes we suffer because of it, and that fucking sucks, but does that mean we all should move to the suburbs? I've been robbed in my own home, which feels a damn sight safer than walking down Broadway, and I think that was Chris's point. Please don't accuse him of siding with muggers or some such sentiment. No one's going there -<span></span><div>
<br></div><div>Love,</div><div>David<br><br>On Monday, December 2, 2013, GtwoG PublicOhOne wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<br>
Re. Sonja: <br>
<br>
Exactly what I've done: not gone back to SudoRoom after having had a
gun pointed at my guts right in the doorway. Chances are at least
one person reading this is pleased with that outcome, but at least
four I know aren't.<br>
<br>
Re. ChrisBee: <br>
<br>
Right, blame the fucking victims, three or four of us that I know of
who've been robbed, assaulted, or had car windows smashed and stuff
stolen coming & going from SR or parked nearby, and possibly one
or two I missed. <br>
<br>
Let's see, where have we heard your line of bullshit before?... she
shouldn't have been wearing those clothes either...? I take it you
agree with that too.<br>
<br>
I'll quote you directly for what comes next, just so the context of
my reply is clear:<br>
<br>
"Feel free to disagree with me, but when I hear/read discussions
about this based around "how safe is so-and-so compared to
such-and-such area" I think "Wow, if that isn't
privilege/entitlement/self-absorption then I don't know what is."
Not saying that any of you are, but I'm just saying." <br>
<br>
So it's "privilege/entitlement/self-absorption" to value being in a
safe location where you're less likely to be subjected to violence
on the street? I'm going to say something to you that I haven't
said to anyone in a damn long time: Go fuck yourself. <br>
<br>
-G.<br>
<br>
<br>
=====<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 13-12-02-Mon 6:02 PM, Sonja Trauss
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">Yeah but what if taking responsibility for your safety
means not going where you've been robbed before? <span></span><br>
<br>
On Monday, December 2, 2013, Chris Bee wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>(shakes head, sighs)<br>
</div>
<div><br>
I've said it before and I'll say it again...in most cases,
putting the onus of personal safety on a neighborhood is
totally missing the point that YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR
YOUR OWN SAFETY, full stop. Saying that you are
(relatively) more or less safe depending on where you are
is...is...well, it's wrong thinking on so many levels that
I don't even know where to begin.<br>
<br>
</div>
Feel free to disagree with me, but when I hear/read
discussions about this based around "how safe is so-and-so
compared to such-and-such area" I think "Wow, if that isn't
privilege/entitlement/self-absorption then I don't know what
is." Not saying that any of you are, but I'm just saying. I
like and respect my sudo peoples...a lot. That's why I'm
pointing this out. I don't want anyone to be lulled into a
false sense of security/anxiety by thinking that just
because you're in one area bad shit is less prone to happen
to you, or vice versa. It's on all of us to be aware of
what's going on around us and to be prepared to deal with
whatever situations may come our way, alone or otherwise.
Good Samaritans notwithstanding, the cops are...well, the
odds of them being there when you "need" them (I personally
don't) are next to nil, and they only seem to make things
complicated after the fact. <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>What we should be focused on is locating an affordable
space that meets the needs of BAPS/sudo/CCL.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Sorry if I seem a little impatient but I've seen too many
important discussions get derailed like this, and right now
I think this is pretty high on our list of immediate
concerns.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>And again, If anyone wants to straighten me out on this
issue I'm all ears/eyes. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Respectfully, <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>-chrisbee<br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Sonja Trauss <span dir="ltr"><<a>sonja.trauss@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Oh man I'm I total idiot, I just realized where 8th and
Alice is - I saw "8th st" and "near BART" and thought
you were talking about w Oakland BART.
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
<span></span>
<div>
<br>
On Tuesday, November 26, 2013, Pete Forsyth
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Sonja, given that -- as you say
-- West Oakland is "pretty mixed" racially
and culturally, what is it that leads you to
conclude that Amber was talking about black
people, and commenting on race?
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>Pete</div>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Sonja
Trauss <span dir="ltr"><<a>sonja.trauss@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Yeah you need to
give black people more credit. Did you
know, some of them like coffee shops
also? some of them can read? Some of
them have computers? Some of them might
become sudo members? Black people are
pretty similar to </blockquote></div><</div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><pre>_______________________________________________
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