<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div><br><br>"You are the source of Freedom : the price of Freedom is awareness and action"</div><div><br>Begin forwarded message:<br><br></div><div><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:sudo-discuss-request@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss-request@lists.sudoroom.org</a><br><b>Date:</b> October 5, 2013 at 9:33:16 PM PDT<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> <b>sudo-discuss Digest, Vol 12, Issue 14</b><br><b>Reply-To:</b> <a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a><br><br></div><div><span>Send sudo-discuss mailing list submissions to</span><br><span> <a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit</span><br><span> <a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a></span><br><span>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to</span><br><span> <a href="mailto:sudo-discuss-request@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss-request@lists.sudoroom.org</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>You can reach the person managing the list at</span><br><span> <a href="mailto:sudo-discuss-owner@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss-owner@lists.sudoroom.org</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific</span><br><span>than "Re: Contents of sudo-discuss digest..."</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>Today's Topics:</span><br><span></span><br><span> 1. Re: 2141 Broadway Co-Op? (Eddan Katz)</span><br><span> 2. Re: government shut down & open web (Eddan Katz)</span><br><span> 3. Poetry Laboratorio: Filip Marinovich presents Emerging Work</span><br><span> from Occupy Wall Street (<a href="mailto:Romy@snowyla.com">Romy@snowyla.com</a>)</span><br><span> 4. Fwd: Tech Forum October 24 (Eddan Katz)</span><br><span> 5. Incorporation (Yardena Cohen)</span><br><span> 6. Re: Incorporation (GtwoG PublicOhOne)</span><br><span> 7. Re: Incorporation (J.D. Zamfirescu)</span><br><span> 8. Need video editor to chop and polish this "Tour of Sudo"</span><br><span> video we shot. (Max Klein)</span><br><span> 9. Re: Incorporation (Patrik D'haeseleer)</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>----------------------------------------------------------------------</span><br><span></span><br><span>Message: 1</span><br><span>Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 20:27:08 -0700</span><br><span>From: Eddan Katz <<a href="mailto:eddan@clear.net">eddan@clear.net</a>></span><br><span>To: Andrew <<a href="mailto:andrew@roshambomedia.com">andrew@roshambomedia.com</a>></span><br><span>Cc: "<a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>"</span><br><span> <<a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>>, rhodey <<a href="mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org">rhodey@anhonesteffort.org</a>>,</span><br><span> <a href="mailto:sudo-crowd@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-crowd@lists.sudoroom.org</a></span><br><span>Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] 2141 Broadway Co-Op?</span><br><span>Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:83D1B780-B244-42BE-8C90-21D9855A6DA9@clear.net">83D1B780-B244-42BE-8C90-21D9855A6DA9@clear.net</a>></span><br><span>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"</span><br><span></span><br><span>We could use the sudo-crowd list for organizing. Also mobilizing around Equity Crowdfunding.</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>sent from <a href="http://eddan.com">eddan.com</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>On Oct 4, 2013, at 6:17 PM, Andrew <<a href="mailto:andrew@roshambomedia.com">andrew@roshambomedia.com</a>> wrote:</span><br><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>I would propose that the best way to move forward is to get a group together who is willing to put some work in to making this happen and then as that group, which would probablly have to file as an llc or somthing simular, begin negotiations with Goerge.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>I dont really see this as a sudo room specific thing more that sudo room could lease from the 2141 co-op once it owns that portion of the building.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>-Andrew</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Oct 3, 2013 1:36 PM, "Eddan Katz" <<a href="mailto:eddan@clear.net">eddan@clear.net</a>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>As I mentioned on my phone-in to the meeting last night, there were no numbers discussed at any point, neither regarding sale nor shares nor rental.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Not sure how it would make sense to try and figure it out, but I would guess some of you number-crunchers can propose some share/sq. ft. metric.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Oct 3, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Max Klein <<a href="mailto:isalix@gmail.com">isalix@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>I would like to also talk about co-op purchase greatly. Unfortunately I cannot make the meeting that you proposed at Farley's. It seems like we might also want to have it after a sudo meeting? Well in any case, to get the most participation I've created a doodle for such a meeting:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://doodle.com/bd7ars64a3ngfd4m">http://doodle.com/bd7ars64a3ngfd4m</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Should we also include BAPS and CCL since they would be also potential investors? Also it seems like we should get a firmer undesrstanding of what the purchase price and terms would be. Eddan do you have that information? Can someone with connections to George get a non-obligatory estimate price from him?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Max</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On 1 October 2013 16:54, Anthony Di Franco <<a href="mailto:di.franco@gmail.com">di.franco@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>I'll be there.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Andrew <<a href="mailto:andrew@roshambomedia.com">andrew@roshambomedia.com</a>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Hi,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>If people are not quite aware of what Eddan is talking about with the JOBS Act Crowd Funding, It was brought up at our first unconference just as Sudo Room was moving in to 2141. Here's some more information</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://www.forbes.com/sites/tanyaprive/2012/11/06/inside-the-jobs-act-equity-crowdfunding-2/">http://www.forbes.com/sites/tanyaprive/2012/11/06/inside-the-jobs-act-equity-crowdfunding-2/</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>I'm definitely interested in talking a discussion of the possible co-oping of a portion of 2141 off line and meeting up at Farley's maybe Monday next week (Oct. 7th) 6pm? Who's down?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>--Andrew</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Anthony Di Franco <<a href="mailto:di.franco@gmail.com">di.franco@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>To try to help answer the question of what exactly happened and what the implications are, let me quote from Eddan's email, emphasis mine (archived here):</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>?Terminating the current lease means the latter, David. That is - at that point, a new/better lease can be negotiated. Or not, if so decided. While the details on what a co-op purchase would look like still have to be hammered out in detail, it was my understanding from George that he was interested in an arrangement that would include selling off equity in that portion. Different organizations would put up money in their collective shares and that wing would be organized as a co-op with the different organizational/individual owners taking part in the decision-making of managing the building.?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>and from Hol's email, (archived here):</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>?I think we've been fortunate to have people (Eddan, Matt, Zach) put their name down in the lease and assume a degree of liability for operations. I interpret the notice to George as a move that is not binding on sudo room in any way, but one that A) allows Eddan and presumably Matt to relinquish their "doing business as" status to a better defined group, B) informs George that his behavior toward tenants will not be met with guaranteed continued tenancy, and C) puts a fire under all of our asses to solve the space/access/community issues elegantly, either by finding a new space or by coming to an agreement and a way forward at 2141. These are just my thoughts, with a grain of salt on specifics as I haven't been going to general meetings recently but I guess it's time to start doing that again since this is a matter of great importance.?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:05 PM, rhodey <<a href="mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org">rhodey@anhonesteffort.org</a>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>All that myself and others have asked of you is that you provide a bit</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>more detailed information about the discussion you had while terminating</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>the lease. Your name was on the lease, I believe you have every right to</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>terminate the lease in order to remove your name. What I cannot</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>understand is why you consider questions regarding the discussion you</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>had off topic or offensive.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>For the sake of moving on to the work we have cut out for us - this</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>is my last message addressing this topic.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>I'm confused as to how we're supposed to continue onto the work we have</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>cut out for us without knowing the details and expectations surrounding</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>the termination of our lease. I was not asking "why" did this happen, I</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>was (am) asking "what" happened.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>I am removing myself from any further discussion regarding the 2141</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>location on this mailing list, apologies to those who's feelings were hurt.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>-- rhodey</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On 10/01/2013 03:43 PM, Eddan Katz wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>This is an extraordinarily unfair thing to say. On so many levels.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>I'm sorry that I have not articulated myself better. Those who know me, know that the message below is unfounded and mean-spirited.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>For the sake of moving on to the work we have cut out for us - this is my last message addressing this topic.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>sent from <a href="http://eddan.com">eddan.com</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Oct 1, 2013, at 3:09 PM, rhodey <<a href="mailto:rhodey@anhonesteffort.org">rhodey@anhonesteffort.org</a>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Eddan,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>You took it upon yourself to terminate SudoRoom's lease in (what I</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>understand to be) a private meeting. Putting the question of whether</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>or not this was agreed on by SudoRoom aside, the very least that you</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>could do is share with us the details of a discussion you had on our</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>behalf.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Take a second to realize that although the idea of investing in</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>property is both interesting and financially feasible for you, others</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>may not feel the same or be financially able.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>-- rhodey</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On 10/01/2013 02:54 PM, Eddan Katz wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>I don't think it makes any sense to lump this into one of george's</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>emotional outbursts.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>as we've all been following closely over this list, the equity</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>crowdfunding provision of the Jobs Act, which went into effect last</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>week on Sept. 23, 2013, enables the distribution of shares outside</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>the traditional infrastructure of approved investors. the changes</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>in the future of capital flow routing around wall st. and the rules</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>surrounding investment cannot be underestimated. by opening up the</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>buying of stocks to us regular folks - with capital investment no</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>longer made unaffordable because of the huge cuts taken by</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>investment bank intermediaries and securities regulations</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>fortifying the status quo - the possibilities for raising capital</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>have just exploded.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>most interestingly, from my point of view, a collaborative</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>non-hierarchical ownership and management structure becomes</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>feasible in a way that it has never been in economic history.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Oct 1, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Marina Kukso <<a href="mailto:marina.kukso@gmail.com">marina.kukso@gmail.com</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:marina.kukso@gmail.com">mailto:marina.kukso@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>as far as i know eddan is the only one who has spoken with</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>george, one of the building's owners, about the co-op</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>possibility. eddan, can you share any more info about what</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>exactly george said (my main question is whether this is just</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>another one of george's idle threat type things that he just says</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>and never intends to follow through on).?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Zee <<a href="mailto:zee@zeespencer.com">zee@zeespencer.com</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:zee@zeespencer.com">mailto:zee@zeespencer.com</a>>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>I am exceedingly interested in this, and would happily discuss</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>it further over tea or coffee with other interested parties.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:36 PM, Andrew</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:andrew@roshambomedia.com">andrew@roshambomedia.com</a> <<a href="mailto:andrew@roshambomedia.com">mailto:andrew@roshambomedia.com</a>>></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>I have no idea what the price per sq-ft is. We should find</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>that</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>out. Also</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>having the capital isn't really as important as having a small</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>group who is</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>willing to put in the time and resources when necessary to</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>make</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>it happen.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>With good enough credit it would be possible to finance the</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>space depending</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>on the down payment. Or even crowd source the down payment.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>There are a lot</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>of options if there are people who actually want to it.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Hol Gaskill <<a href="mailto:hol@gaskill.com">hol@gaskill.com</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:hol@gaskill.com">mailto:hol@gaskill.com</a>>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>bump</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Oct 1, 2013 10:51:46 AM, <a href="mailto:zee@zeespencer.com">zee@zeespencer.com</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:zee@zeespencer.com">mailto:zee@zeespencer.com</a>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Do we have an idea on what the per-sq-ft sale cost is?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 10:50 AM, David Keenan</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:dkeenan44@gmail.com">dkeenan44@gmail.com</a> <<a href="mailto:dkeenan44@gmail.com">mailto:dkeenan44@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>The co-op thing sounds like a very cool idea, except for</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>the</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>fact that</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>neither I nor anyone I know has, to my knowledge at</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>least,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>access to</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>the volume of capital that i imagine is required, so</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>personally</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>I'm still a</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>bit lost on how one would move forward on such an</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>acquisition..?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>-d</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Tuesday, October 1, 2013, Andrew wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>I haven't been around all that much, but am I correct</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>to</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>assume that</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>the current situation is that:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>1. Sudo Room's current lease ends Jan 1st 2. George is</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>willing to sell off part of 2141 to a group of</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>investors?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>If this is so. Let's talk 2141 Co-Op. Is there anyone</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>on</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>this list who</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>would be at all interested in owning part of a building</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>in</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>the middle</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>of Downtown Oakland??</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Sudo Room or not, this is a great opportunity for a</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>collective to turn</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>some extremely prime real estate in to a commercial</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Co-Op.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Just wanted to bring attention to this. Thoughts?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>-- ------- Andrew Lowe Cell: 831-332-2507</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><tel:831-332-2507> <a href="http://roshambomedia.com">http://roshambomedia.com</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="http://roshambomedia.com/">http://roshambomedia.com/</a>></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>sudo-discuss mailing list</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>sudo-discuss mailing list <a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________ sudo-discuss</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>mailing list <a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>-- ------- Andrew Lowe Cell: 831-332-2507 <tel:831-332-2507></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://roshambomedia.com">http://roshambomedia.com</a> <<a href="http://roshambomedia.com/">http://roshambomedia.com/</a>></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________ sudo-discuss</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>mailing list <a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________ sudo-discuss</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>mailing list <a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________ sudo-discuss</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>mailing list <a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>sudo-discuss mailing list</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>sudo-discuss mailing list</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>sudo-discuss mailing list</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>-- </span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>-------</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Andrew Lowe</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Cell: 831-332-2507</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://roshambomedia.com">http://roshambomedia.com</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>sudo-discuss mailing list</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>sudo-discuss mailing list</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>sudo-discuss mailing list</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><span>-------------- next part --------------</span><br><span>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...</span><br><span>URL: <<a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20131004/f1e76df6/attachment-0001.html">http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20131004/f1e76df6/attachment-0001.html</a>></span><br><span></span><br><span>------------------------------</span><br><span></span><br><span>Message: 2</span><br><span>Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2013 01:17:49 -0700</span><br><span>From: Eddan Katz <<a href="mailto:eddan@clear.net">eddan@clear.net</a>></span><br><span>To: sudo-discuss <<a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>></span><br><span>Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] government shut down & open web</span><br><span>Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:556A6C13-9BF9-4396-8C8F-70C73E27A729@clear.net">556A6C13-9BF9-4396-8C8F-70C73E27A729@clear.net</a>></span><br><span>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"</span><br><span></span><br><span>The availability of government services during an emergency is often most compelling to regular folk.</span><br><span></span><br><span>The fact that property damage submission forms to FEMA were only available in .doc following Hurricane Katrina was a persuasive anecdote in the open standards debate.</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>sent from <a href="http://eddan.com">eddan.com</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>On Oct 4, 2013, at 9:47 AM, Eddan Katz <<a href="mailto:eddan@clear.net">eddan@clear.net</a>> wrote:</span><br><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>From: Peter Harter <<a href="mailto:farrington@gmail.com">farrington@gmail.com</a>></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Date: October 4, 2013, 9:39:32 AM PDT</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>To: "<a href="mailto:netpolicy@mozilla.org">netpolicy@mozilla.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:Netpolicy@mozilla.org">Netpolicy@mozilla.org</a>></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Subject: government shut down & open web</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>As you may already know many US government websites have shuttered, so to speak, as a result of the budget shut down. Reminds me of how Internet freedom issue campaigns have rallied attention by altering or closing websites.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Seems to me that this moment is a possible opportunity for Mozilla to educate the public about the importance of the open Web and how it is all around us every day.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>During the previous shut down in the mid 90s people became fed up with a lack of access to government services such as visas for overseas travel. I don't know if it was a simple pressure point of very wealthy and well connected people that got fed up with Newt Gingrich and wanted to have their vacations to go forward. But that is one of the anecdotes one heard at the time.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Do people that care about the open Web care at all about a lack of access to government websites?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>For example, people do care about a lack of access to national parks and how that disrupts their vacations, ruins the income to businesses dependent on those parks and pushes those workers into poverty and onto government assistance.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Is there an example that we can think of to make a similar cascading deprivation narrative connecting the shut down of government websites to a broader impact that burdens us all?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>This I think would help underscore the point that Harvey made to me a year ago or so -- that the open Web needs to be a regular part of a kitchen table conversation, akin to what it took or many to move clean air out of the environmentalist extremes and into the very mainstream.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>I can't say that the shut down of the US government is that tipping point for the open Web.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>But since we've all seen the shuttering of websites as a timeworn tactic for two decades now, I thought I should raise it with you all here for contemplation and for discussion perhaps during the Mozilla Summit.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Peter</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Netpolicy mailing list</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:Netpolicy@mozilla.org">Netpolicy@mozilla.org</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/netpolicy">https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/netpolicy</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><span>-------------- next part --------------</span><br><span>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...</span><br><span>URL: <<a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20131005/e843d693/attachment-0001.html">http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20131005/e843d693/attachment-0001.html</a>></span><br><span></span><br><span>------------------------------</span><br><span></span><br><span>Message: 3</span><br><span>Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2013 09:26:32 -0700</span><br><span>From: "<a href="mailto:Romy@snowyla.com">Romy@snowyla.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:romy@snowyla.com">romy@snowyla.com</a>></span><br><span>To: sudo-discuss <<a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>></span><br><span>Subject: [sudo-discuss] Poetry Laboratorio: Filip Marinovich presents</span><br><span> Emerging Work from Occupy Wall Street</span><br><span>Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:D1D3EE69-924E-42AA-B6E9-32459D912935@snowyla.com">D1D3EE69-924E-42AA-B6E9-32459D912935@snowyla.com</a>></span><br><span>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii</span><br><span></span><br><span>This is my former housemate from NYC ... He was a librarian and a poet at occupy... Reminds me of our resident poet Troy who is also our librarian !!! </span><br><span></span><br><span>Any poetry readings at sudoroom ??</span><br><span></span><br><span>Check out this video on YouTube:</span><br><span></span><br><span><a href="http://youtu.be/IN9DcF7ayhc">http://youtu.be/IN9DcF7ayhc</a></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>Sent from my iPad</span><br><span></span><br><span>------------------------------</span><br><span></span><br><span>Message: 4</span><br><span>Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2013 11:42:12 -0700</span><br><span>From: Eddan Katz <<a href="mailto:eddan@clear.net">eddan@clear.net</a>></span><br><span>To: sudo-discuss <<a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>></span><br><span>Subject: [sudo-discuss] Fwd: Tech Forum October 24</span><br><span>Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4BB2B42E-AE0A-4ADE-82A6-47EAA8F61DE2@clear.net">4BB2B42E-AE0A-4ADE-82A6-47EAA8F61DE2@clear.net</a>></span><br><span>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"</span><br><span></span><br><span>Thoughts and suggestions on discussion topics for an Oakland Technology Policy Forum 10/24 much appreciated.</span><br><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>From: "bryan" <<a href="mailto:bryan@bryanparker.org">bryan@bryanparker.org</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Date: October 4, 2013, 4:44:47 PM PDT</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>To: <a href="mailto:eddan@eddan.com">eddan@eddan.com</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>We are pulling together a tech forum to study the question of what would be needed in terms of infrastructure, marketing, resources, etc to drive a real tech sector in Oakland. Additionally, what are the restraints on this happening?</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>We were thinking 6-8 on 10/24. Policy discussion only, no politics. We have invited a group of tech professionals, capital providers and other thought leaders in the field. We think Oakland can make particular strides in the areas of Clean /Green tech and digital media.</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>Please let me know your thoughts.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Best,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Bryan</span><br></blockquote><span>-------------- next part --------------</span><br><span>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...</span><br><span>URL: <<a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20131005/21bb3383/attachment-0001.html">http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20131005/21bb3383/attachment-0001.html</a>></span><br><span></span><br><span>------------------------------</span><br><span></span><br><span>Message: 5</span><br><span>Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2013 18:13:07 -0700</span><br><span>From: Yardena Cohen <<a href="mailto:yardenack@gmail.com">yardenack@gmail.com</a>></span><br><span>To: sudo-discuss <<a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>></span><br><span>Subject: [sudo-discuss] Incorporation</span><br><span>Message-ID:</span><br><span> <<a href="mailto:CAEi7jy3-zf4YYy9XP4MusK36jV3zv7kOo2D9tKCjwUaNeRo2CQ@mail.gmail.com">CAEi7jy3-zf4YYy9XP4MusK36jV3zv7kOo2D9tKCjwUaNeRo2CQ@mail.gmail.com</a>></span><br><span>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1</span><br><span></span><br><span>This was meant to get sent out after Wednesday's meeting. Sorry it took so long.</span><br><span></span><br><span>In short, we are coming close to filing Sudoroom as a California</span><br><span>corporation. We want to do this as consensually and horizontally as</span><br><span>possible, but also soon. As in, the next few weeks. Let this e-mail</span><br><span>thread be your official opportunity to lobby objections, concerns and</span><br><span>desires. Here is some background for clarity, and some homework.</span><br><span></span><br><span>PROFIT vs NON-PROFIT: this is the distinction that gets talked about</span><br><span>most often, but actually seems to be the most remote/non-issue</span><br><span>question right now. 501 (c3, c5, c*) is a chapter of the Federal IRC,</span><br><span>meaning it ONLY relates to Federal income taxes. You ask the IRS to</span><br><span>recognize you, and they take a few years to start letting you keep</span><br><span>your money. But we're NOT AT THIS STAGE YET because legally we DON'T</span><br><span>even EXIST YET.</span><br><span></span><br><span>INCORPORATION: this is how you exist. It is not a federal process -</span><br><span>you ask your U.S. State to recognize you. Each state does it a little</span><br><span>differently. Generally the old traditional type of corporation is a</span><br><span>C-Corp, and newer types are LLC and B-Corp. This is something we all</span><br><span>need to learn more about! We need to decide the pros and cons of each</span><br><span>type. That is our homework assignment #1.</span><br><span></span><br><span>WRITING OUR ARTICLES: when we file papers we will have to submit</span><br><span>Articles/Bylaws. This will be a legal document describing who we are</span><br><span>and what the terms and rules of our incorporation are. It is</span><br><span>OPEN-ENDED meaning very hackable but also intimidating. It's been</span><br><span>proposed that we use Noisebridge's articles as a starting point and</span><br><span>edit them to our liking to make them most Sudo-appropriate. It's on</span><br><span>our wiki now: <a href="https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Bylaws_in_progress">https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Bylaws_in_progress</a> Reading,</span><br><span>understanding, and hacking at this document is homework assignment #2!</span><br><span></span><br><span>MEMBERSHIP: observant readers will note incorporation implies there</span><br><span>are "owners." We have to figure out once and for all how to decide</span><br><span>membership. This is it, folks. Time for us all to step up and ask "who</span><br><span>the fuck are we?"</span><br><span></span><br><span>So, in summary, the next steps are:</span><br><span></span><br><span> 1) Decide on LLC vs C vs B Corp</span><br><span> 2) Write articles/bylaws to file with</span><br><span> 3) who the fuck are we?</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>------------------------------</span><br><span></span><br><span>Message: 6</span><br><span>Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2013 19:40:46 -0700</span><br><span>From: GtwoG PublicOhOne <<a href="mailto:g2g-public01@att.net">g2g-public01@att.net</a>></span><br><span>To: Yardena Cohen <<a href="mailto:yardenack@gmail.com">yardenack@gmail.com</a>></span><br><span>Cc: sudo-discuss <<a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>></span><br><span>Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Incorporation</span><br><span>Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:5250CDAE.5000405@att.net">5250CDAE.5000405@att.net</a>></span><br><span>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>A few things about incorporation (I am not a lawyer, this is not legal</span><br><span>advice):</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>S corps: Last I checked these were limited to 35 owners, all of whom had</span><br><span>to be US citizens. </span><br><span></span><br><span>C corps: The entity most people think of when they say "corporation." </span><br><span>No limit to the number of owners, and owners may also be persons other</span><br><span>than US citizens.</span><br><span></span><br><span>B corps: A "B-corp" is a corporation that states a set of intrinsic</span><br><span>values & principles as part of its structure, supplementing or</span><br><span>supplanting the default assumption that the primary purpose to be served</span><br><span>is to increase shareholder value.</span><br><span></span><br><span>In each of the above structures, ownership shares are equal to dollars</span><br><span>invested, and the vote inheres in the shares rather than in the persons</span><br><span>(thus you can have unequal voting power based on share ownership). </span><br><span></span><br><span>There are possible mechanisms for a one-person/ one-vote system, based</span><br><span>on having two or more classes of shares, such as "preferred shares" and</span><br><span>"common shares." This enables you to have one class of shares that has</span><br><span>voting power, and one class of shares that does not have voting power</span><br><span>but has preference in allocation of dividends when profits are earned. </span><br><span>Thus for a one-person/ one-vote system, you'd sell only one share of</span><br><span>voting stock to each person, and as many shares of non-voting stock to</span><br><span>each person as matches their financial investment. Setting up this type</span><br><span>of system requires an attorney to ensure that it meets legal</span><br><span>requirements to protect the owners and investors.</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>In addition there are three types of co-operative structures, which are</span><br><span>also incorporated entities that confer the same "limited liability"</span><br><span>protections as other types of corporations:</span><br><span></span><br><span>"Consumer coops" also include most worker-owned coops, where individual</span><br><span>persons are the members and owners. </span><br><span></span><br><span>"Producer coops" serve individuals and companies that produce goods &</span><br><span>services, such as a dairy marketing coop that serves dairy farmers. In</span><br><span>this case, the members have some common interest in shared productive</span><br><span>resources such as infrastructure. </span><br><span></span><br><span>"Central organizations" are coops that have other coops as members, such</span><br><span>as a network of coops in a geographic area or common field of business,</span><br><span>or sharing infrastructure in the manner of a producer coop whose members</span><br><span>are coops.</span><br><span></span><br><span>In each of these cooperative structures, you have membership shares,</span><br><span>allocated one share to each member for a fixed price, such that each</span><br><span>member has one share and one vote. Thus the one-person/ one-vote</span><br><span>principle is built into the structure without need of multiple classes</span><br><span>of shares.</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>LLCs:</span><br><span></span><br><span>LLCs were originally designed as hybrid structures to accommodate groups</span><br><span>of professionals such as doctors and lawyers engaged in group practice,</span><br><span>but have since become used for other types of business, real estate</span><br><span>ownership, etc. LLCs were deliberately designed to be flexible in their</span><br><span>legal structure and methods of governance. In an LLC, the vote is also</span><br><span>separate from the investment share, such that you can create a</span><br><span>one-person/ one-vote system, with less complication than in a C-corp or</span><br><span>S-corp. </span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>One thing to be careful of, for any type of legal entity, and this will</span><br><span>require legal advice to get it right, is to make sure that your share</span><br><span>price or membership price does not increase in a manner that you can't</span><br><span>control, such as to make it impossible for new persons to buy in. </span><br><span></span><br><span>This can occur when the primary asset is real estate, as the "assessed</span><br><span>value" of the property increases over time. This was historically a</span><br><span>problem in some forestry coops in the Pacific Northwest, and some other</span><br><span>cases that are known in the literature. I'm inclined to believe that</span><br><span>setting up a property as a "land trust" or similar entity, may be a</span><br><span>mechanism to hold the asset value of property more stable against</span><br><span>speculative increases in nearby property prices, and so reduce these</span><br><span>risks, but this needs to be checked with a lawyer. </span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>Corporations and cooperatives, and possibly LLCs, have Boards of</span><br><span>Directors elected by the shareholders or members, and have three</span><br><span>positions that are required by law (any person may hold one or more of</span><br><span>these positions):</span><br><span></span><br><span>= Board of Directors: Elected directly by vote of the shareholders or</span><br><span>members (typically every two years). Makes policy decisions and selects</span><br><span>the positions below. For practical reasons the number of Directors</span><br><span>should be small enough to be able to meet without scheduling</span><br><span>difficulties, for example 5 - 7 people.</span><br><span></span><br><span>= CEO: Chief executive officer. Signs most legal documents for the</span><br><span>entity, can make other routine decisions per authority delegated by the</span><br><span>Board.</span><br><span></span><br><span>= CFO or Treasurer: Chief financial officer. Responsible for the</span><br><span>entity's financial documents and statements.</span><br><span></span><br><span>= Secretary: Responsible for receiving and for filing of routine</span><br><span>documents with various state agencies, and for maintaining</span><br><span>legally-required records of the organization.</span><br><span></span><br><span>= Attorney of Record, or Agent for Service of Process: This is not a</span><br><span>"CXO" type position, but is typically required to ensure that any</span><br><span>documents relating to legal processes, can go to a specific person at a</span><br><span>specific address. </span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>All of the above structures, when configured for one-person/ one-vote,</span><br><span>are representative democracies. </span><br><span></span><br><span>To configure as a direct democracy of the members, Bylaws would be</span><br><span>enacted by the initial incorporators or first Board of Directors, such</span><br><span>that on specified issues, the Board is bound to act only in accord with</span><br><span>the direct votes of the members. </span><br><span></span><br><span>Thus you could empower the Board to make certain types of decisions on</span><br><span>its own, and other types of decisions only in accord with direct</span><br><span>democratic votes of the members.</span><br><span></span><br><span>When deciding on a structure, it's useful to consider the distinction</span><br><span>between the types of decisions that can be handled by "delegated</span><br><span>authority" such as by the Board, CEO, CFO, and Secretary, and the types</span><br><span>of decisions that you'd prefer to handle by direct vote of the members. </span><br><span></span><br><span>It's also useful to consider the threshold of direct vote required to</span><br><span>pass a proposal. The default options in most types of structures are</span><br><span>50%+1 for most types of decisions, and 2/3 majority for changes of the</span><br><span>Bylaws and other structural decisions. On the other hand, pure</span><br><span>consensus sets a 100% threshold, and varying degrees of near-consensus</span><br><span>can set other thresholds such as 80% for specified purposes.</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>One thing to keep in mind for Federal 501 tax-exempt organizations</span><br><span>(religious, scientific, educational, or charitable entities) is that the</span><br><span>law prohibits persons in decision-making capacities from receiving</span><br><span>monetary benefits from the entity. In discussions of</span><br><span>democratically-managed entities, this is usually interpreted to mean</span><br><span>that workers/employees/contractors of an entity, are not allowed to have</span><br><span>voting power, since they receive wages/salaries/etc. from the entity. </span><br><span>So to the extent that the entity expects to pay any of its members for</span><br><span>services they provide, or pay out any kind of dividendsre or</span><br><span>retained-earnings distributions, this issue will need to be considered,</span><br><span>and it also requires input from an attorney to get it right.</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>-G.</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>=====</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>On 13-10-05-Sat 6:13 PM, Yardena Cohen wrote:</span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>This was meant to get sent out after Wednesday's meeting. Sorry it took so long.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>In short, we are coming close to filing Sudoroom as a California</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>corporation. We want to do this as consensually and horizontally as</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>possible, but also soon. As in, the next few weeks. Let this e-mail</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>thread be your official opportunity to lobby objections, concerns and</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>desires. Here is some background for clarity, and some homework.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>PROFIT vs NON-PROFIT: this is the distinction that gets talked about</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>most often, but actually seems to be the most remote/non-issue</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>question right now. 501 (c3, c5, c*) is a chapter of the Federal IRC,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>meaning it ONLY relates to Federal income taxes. You ask the IRS to</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>recognize you, and they take a few years to start letting you keep</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>your money. But we're NOT AT THIS STAGE YET because legally we DON'T</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>even EXIST YET.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>INCORPORATION: this is how you exist. It is not a federal process -</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>you ask your U.S. State to recognize you. Each state does it a little</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>differently. Generally the old traditional type of corporation is a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>C-Corp, and newer types are LLC and B-Corp. This is something we all</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>need to learn more about! We need to decide the pros and cons of each</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>type. That is our homework assignment #1.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>WRITING OUR ARTICLES: when we file papers we will have to submit</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Articles/Bylaws. This will be a legal document describing who we are</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>and what the terms and rules of our incorporation are. It is</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>OPEN-ENDED meaning very hackable but also intimidating. It's been</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>proposed that we use Noisebridge's articles as a starting point and</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>edit them to our liking to make them most Sudo-appropriate. It's on</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>our wiki now: <a href="https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Bylaws_in_progress">https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Bylaws_in_progress</a> Reading,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>understanding, and hacking at this document is homework assignment #2!</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>MEMBERSHIP: observant readers will note incorporation implies there</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>are "owners." We have to figure out once and for all how to decide</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>membership. This is it, folks. Time for us all to step up and ask "who</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>the fuck are we?"</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>So, in summary, the next steps are:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> 1) Decide on LLC vs C vs B Corp</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> 2) Write articles/bylaws to file with</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> 3) who the fuck are we?</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>sudo-discuss mailing list</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>------------------------------</span><br><span></span><br><span>Message: 7</span><br><span>Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2013 20:06:06 -0700</span><br><span>From: "J.D. Zamfirescu" <<a href="mailto:zamfire@gmail.com">zamfire@gmail.com</a>></span><br><span>To: GtwoG PublicOhOne <<a href="mailto:g2g-public01@att.net">g2g-public01@att.net</a>></span><br><span>Cc: Yardena Cohen <<a href="mailto:yardenack@gmail.com">yardenack@gmail.com</a>>, sudo-discuss</span><br><span> <<a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>></span><br><span>Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Incorporation</span><br><span>Message-ID:</span><br><span> <<a href="mailto:CAO5ydeFVxuw+Ku9opWnetsk0bxvLLxs5Nqv1udV2oDz9WiSAPg@mail.gmail.com">CAO5ydeFVxuw+Ku9opWnetsk0bxvLLxs5Nqv1udV2oDz9WiSAPg@mail.gmail.com</a>></span><br><span>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</span><br><span></span><br><span>I had just started to write something similar to G's email, having gone</span><br><span>through the incorporation process a few times for C-corps and non-profits</span><br><span>in the past couple years -- I'm certainly not a lawyer and this is</span><br><span>definitely not legal advice.</span><br><span></span><br><span>G's notes match mine on all points but one: My understanding is that in a</span><br><span>501c3 non-profit, decision-makers *are* allowed to receive pay from the</span><br><span>organization, however, they should recuse themselves from discussions of</span><br><span>their own pay. (That pay also has to be "reasonable".)</span><br><span></span><br><span>Just to add a few more thoughts to the mix:</span><br><span></span><br><span>On B-Corps: A "B Corp" isn't actually a separate legal structure, so we</span><br><span>would be a B Corp *in addition* to a C-Corp or LLC or non-profit or other</span><br><span>structure we chose, not *instead of*.</span><br><span></span><br><span>On non-profit status: Being a non-profit bring advantages beyond just being</span><br><span>exempt from federal income tax:</span><br><span>+ Many foundations and charities only give to non-profits, if we were one,</span><br><span>we could apply for grants and stuff.</span><br><span>+ Individuals can deduct donations to non-profits from their own income</span><br><span>taxes</span><br><span>+ California waives the $800 annual minimum franchise tax for non-profits</span><br><span>+ Many companies have donation matching programs, where employees who</span><br><span>donate $XXXX to a non-profit will see that contribution matched by their</span><br><span>employer, yielding 2*$XXXX for the non-profit.</span><br><span>+ No one owns the organization in a non-profit. There are no shares, and no</span><br><span>issues with valuing those shares if the organization owns property and that</span><br><span>property appreciates in value. There can be members, and the rights of the</span><br><span>members would be chosen by us, and are described in the bylaws of the</span><br><span>organization. (Noisebridge's</span><br><span>bylaws<<a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/images/4/47/Noisebridge-bylaws-as-filed.pdf">https://www.noisebridge.net/images/4/47/Noisebridge-bylaws-as-filed.pdf</a>>,</span><br><span>for reference.) One-member/one-vote is quite typical.</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>My best guess would be that sudoroom should probably be a non-profit. In</span><br><span>this structure, there would be a Board of Directors, whose actions could be</span><br><span>constrained by the by-laws to act as the members direct.</span><br><span></span><br><span>I'm happy to answer any questions folks might have. The wednesday meetings</span><br><span>have been tough for me to attend over the last few months, but I hope to</span><br><span>make it to more in the future!</span><br><span></span><br><span>Best,</span><br><span>J.D.</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 7:40 PM, GtwoG PublicOhOne <<a href="mailto:g2g-public01@att.net">g2g-public01@att.net</a>>wrote:</span><br><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>A few things about incorporation (I am not a lawyer, this is not legal</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>advice):</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>S corps: Last I checked these were limited to 35 owners, all of whom had</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>to be US citizens.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>C corps: The entity most people think of when they say "corporation."</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>No limit to the number of owners, and owners may also be persons other</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>than US citizens.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>B corps: A "B-corp" is a corporation that states a set of intrinsic</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>values & principles as part of its structure, supplementing or</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>supplanting the default assumption that the primary purpose to be served</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>is to increase shareholder value.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>In each of the above structures, ownership shares are equal to dollars</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>invested, and the vote inheres in the shares rather than in the persons</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>(thus you can have unequal voting power based on share ownership).</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>There are possible mechanisms for a one-person/ one-vote system, based</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>on having two or more classes of shares, such as "preferred shares" and</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>"common shares." This enables you to have one class of shares that has</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>voting power, and one class of shares that does not have voting power</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>but has preference in allocation of dividends when profits are earned.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Thus for a one-person/ one-vote system, you'd sell only one share of</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>voting stock to each person, and as many shares of non-voting stock to</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>each person as matches their financial investment. Setting up this type</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>of system requires an attorney to ensure that it meets legal</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>requirements to protect the owners and investors.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>In addition there are three types of co-operative structures, which are</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>also incorporated entities that confer the same "limited liability"</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>protections as other types of corporations:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>"Consumer coops" also include most worker-owned coops, where individual</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>persons are the members and owners.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>"Producer coops" serve individuals and companies that produce goods &</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>services, such as a dairy marketing coop that serves dairy farmers. In</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>this case, the members have some common interest in shared productive</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>resources such as infrastructure.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>"Central organizations" are coops that have other coops as members, such</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>as a network of coops in a geographic area or common field of business,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>or sharing infrastructure in the manner of a producer coop whose members</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>are coops.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>In each of these cooperative structures, you have membership shares,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>allocated one share to each member for a fixed price, such that each</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>member has one share and one vote. Thus the one-person/ one-vote</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>principle is built into the structure without need of multiple classes</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>of shares.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>LLCs:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>LLCs were originally designed as hybrid structures to accommodate groups</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>of professionals such as doctors and lawyers engaged in group practice,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>but have since become used for other types of business, real estate</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>ownership, etc. LLCs were deliberately designed to be flexible in their</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>legal structure and methods of governance. In an LLC, the vote is also</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>separate from the investment share, such that you can create a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>one-person/ one-vote system, with less complication than in a C-corp or</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>S-corp.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>One thing to be careful of, for any type of legal entity, and this will</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>require legal advice to get it right, is to make sure that your share</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>price or membership price does not increase in a manner that you can't</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>control, such as to make it impossible for new persons to buy in.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>This can occur when the primary asset is real estate, as the "assessed</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>value" of the property increases over time. This was historically a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>problem in some forestry coops in the Pacific Northwest, and some other</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>cases that are known in the literature. I'm inclined to believe that</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>setting up a property as a "land trust" or similar entity, may be a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>mechanism to hold the asset value of property more stable against</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>speculative increases in nearby property prices, and so reduce these</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>risks, but this needs to be checked with a lawyer.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Corporations and cooperatives, and possibly LLCs, have Boards of</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Directors elected by the shareholders or members, and have three</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>positions that are required by law (any person may hold one or more of</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>these positions):</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>= Board of Directors: Elected directly by vote of the shareholders or</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>members (typically every two years). Makes policy decisions and selects</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>the positions below. For practical reasons the number of Directors</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>should be small enough to be able to meet without scheduling</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>difficulties, for example 5 - 7 people.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>= CEO: Chief executive officer. Signs most legal documents for the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>entity, can make other routine decisions per authority delegated by the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Board.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>= CFO or Treasurer: Chief financial officer. Responsible for the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>entity's financial documents and statements.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>= Secretary: Responsible for receiving and for filing of routine</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>documents with various state agencies, and for maintaining</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>legally-required records of the organization.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>= Attorney of Record, or Agent for Service of Process: This is not a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>"CXO" type position, but is typically required to ensure that any</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>documents relating to legal processes, can go to a specific person at a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>specific address.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>All of the above structures, when configured for one-person/ one-vote,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>are representative democracies.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>To configure as a direct democracy of the members, Bylaws would be</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>enacted by the initial incorporators or first Board of Directors, such</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>that on specified issues, the Board is bound to act only in accord with</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>the direct votes of the members.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Thus you could empower the Board to make certain types of decisions on</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>its own, and other types of decisions only in accord with direct</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>democratic votes of the members.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>When deciding on a structure, it's useful to consider the distinction</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>between the types of decisions that can be handled by "delegated</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>authority" such as by the Board, CEO, CFO, and Secretary, and the types</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>of decisions that you'd prefer to handle by direct vote of the members.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>It's also useful to consider the threshold of direct vote required to</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>pass a proposal. The default options in most types of structures are</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>50%+1 for most types of decisions, and 2/3 majority for changes of the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Bylaws and other structural decisions. On the other hand, pure</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>consensus sets a 100% threshold, and varying degrees of near-consensus</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>can set other thresholds such as 80% for specified purposes.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>One thing to keep in mind for Federal 501 tax-exempt organizations</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>(religious, scientific, educational, or charitable entities) is that the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>law prohibits persons in decision-making capacities from receiving</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>monetary benefits from the entity. In discussions of</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>democratically-managed entities, this is usually interpreted to mean</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>that workers/employees/contractors of an entity, are not allowed to have</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>voting power, since they receive wages/salaries/etc. from the entity.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>So to the extent that the entity expects to pay any of its members for</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>services they provide, or pay out any kind of dividendsre or</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>retained-earnings distributions, this issue will need to be considered,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>and it also requires input from an attorney to get it right.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>-G.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>=====</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On 13-10-05-Sat 6:13 PM, Yardena Cohen wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>This was meant to get sent out after Wednesday's meeting. Sorry it took</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>so long.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>In short, we are coming close to filing Sudoroom as a California</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>corporation. We want to do this as consensually and horizontally as</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>possible, but also soon. As in, the next few weeks. Let this e-mail</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>thread be your official opportunity to lobby objections, concerns and</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>desires. Here is some background for clarity, and some homework.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>PROFIT vs NON-PROFIT: this is the distinction that gets talked about</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>most often, but actually seems to be the most remote/non-issue</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>question right now. 501 (c3, c5, c*) is a chapter of the Federal IRC,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>meaning it ONLY relates to Federal income taxes. You ask the IRS to</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>recognize you, and they take a few years to start letting you keep</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>your money. But we're NOT AT THIS STAGE YET because legally we DON'T</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>even EXIST YET.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>INCORPORATION: this is how you exist. It is not a federal process -</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>you ask your U.S. State to recognize you. Each state does it a little</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>differently. Generally the old traditional type of corporation is a</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>C-Corp, and newer types are LLC and B-Corp. This is something we all</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>need to learn more about! We need to decide the pros and cons of each</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>type. That is our homework assignment #1.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>WRITING OUR ARTICLES: when we file papers we will have to submit</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Articles/Bylaws. This will be a legal document describing who we are</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>and what the terms and rules of our incorporation are. It is</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>OPEN-ENDED meaning very hackable but also intimidating. It's been</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>proposed that we use Noisebridge's articles as a starting point and</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>edit them to our liking to make them most Sudo-appropriate. It's on</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>our wiki now: <a href="https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Bylaws_in_progress">https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Bylaws_in_progress</a> Reading,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>understanding, and hacking at this document is homework assignment #2!</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>MEMBERSHIP: observant readers will note incorporation implies there</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>are "owners." We have to figure out once and for all how to decide</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>membership. This is it, folks. Time for us all to step up and ask "who</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>the fuck are we?"</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>So, in summary, the next steps are:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> 1) Decide on LLC vs C vs B Corp</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> 2) Write articles/bylaws to file with</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> 3) who the fuck are we?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>sudo-discuss mailing list</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>sudo-discuss mailing list</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><span>-------------- next part --------------</span><br><span>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...</span><br><span>URL: <<a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20131005/9396219e/attachment-0001.html">http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20131005/9396219e/attachment-0001.html</a>></span><br><span></span><br><span>------------------------------</span><br><span></span><br><span>Message: 8</span><br><span>Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2013 20:08:15 -0700</span><br><span>From: Max Klein <<a href="mailto:isalix@gmail.com">isalix@gmail.com</a>></span><br><span>To: sudo-discuss <<a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>></span><br><span>Subject: [sudo-discuss] Need video editor to chop and polish this</span><br><span> "Tour of Sudo" video we shot.</span><br><span>Message-ID:</span><br><span> <<a href="mailto:CAKbmofgnSKzsdBRqDWnGAsVjvgmrx25jp-0AWmvz=uzfdOmbhQ@mail.gmail.com">CAKbmofgnSKzsdBRqDWnGAsVjvgmrx25jp-0AWmvz=uzfdOmbhQ@mail.gmail.com</a>></span><br><span>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</span><br><span></span><br><span>Videophiles, here is the file:</span><br><span></span><br><span><a href="https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_jq7klTEotEQXdMYTVOandHT0E/edit?usp=sharing">https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_jq7klTEotEQXdMYTVOandHT0E/edit?usp=sharing</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Would like to:</span><br><span></span><br><span> - cut out the embarassing bits</span><br><span> - make it short</span><br><span> - adjust colours</span><br><span> - make some sort of effect every time I rip a poster off the wall.</span><br><span> - upload to youtube</span><br><span></span><br><span>Are you the video-guru that would like to take on this project? Do-ocracy</span><br><span>by all means.</span><br><span></span><br><span>-notconfusingly, Max</span><br><span>-------------- next part --------------</span><br><span>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...</span><br><span>URL: <<a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20131005/2b65204d/attachment-0001.html">http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20131005/2b65204d/attachment-0001.html</a>></span><br><span></span><br><span>------------------------------</span><br><span></span><br><span>Message: 9</span><br><span>Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2013 21:33:14 -0700</span><br><span>From: "Patrik D'haeseleer" <<a href="mailto:patrikd@gmail.com">patrikd@gmail.com</a>></span><br><span>To: "J.D. Zamfirescu" <<a href="mailto:zamfire@gmail.com">zamfire@gmail.com</a>></span><br><span>Cc: Yardena Cohen <<a href="mailto:yardenack@gmail.com">yardenack@gmail.com</a>>, sudo-discuss</span><br><span> <<a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>></span><br><span>Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Incorporation</span><br><span>Message-ID:</span><br><span> <<a href="mailto:CAKOjizOSVdgURyzb1aW38VcLJizCLP2itBn8nh56-LXexNodLA@mail.gmail.com">CAKOjizOSVdgURyzb1aW38VcLJizCLP2itBn8nh56-LXexNodLA@mail.gmail.com</a>></span><br><span>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</span><br><span></span><br><span>Having just gone through the same process with Counter Culture Labs (we</span><br><span>filed our articles, finalized our bylaws, and will be voting on our initial</span><br><span>board this coming Wednesday), I have to agree with J.D.: going for a</span><br><span>California non-profit public benefit corporation seems to make most sense</span><br><span>to me for Sudo Room. LLC or C-corp are typically used for for-profits, and</span><br><span>I'm not sure they would even be compatible with 501(c)3 status, if you want</span><br><span>to pursue that.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Both Noisebridge and Ace Monster Toys have a pretty decent bylaws. They</span><br><span>both have voting members who get to elect (or kick out, if necessary) the</span><br><span>directors of the corporation. Ditto for Counter Culture Labs.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Patrik</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 8:06 PM, J.D. Zamfirescu <<a href="mailto:zamfire@gmail.com">zamfire@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><br><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>I had just started to write something similar to G's email, having gone</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>through the incorporation process a few times for C-corps and non-profits</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>in the past couple years -- I'm certainly not a lawyer and this is</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>definitely not legal advice.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>G's notes match mine on all points but one: My understanding is that in a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>501c3 non-profit, decision-makers *are* allowed to receive pay from the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>organization, however, they should recuse themselves from discussions of</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>their own pay. (That pay also has to be "reasonable".)</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Just to add a few more thoughts to the mix:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On B-Corps: A "B Corp" isn't actually a separate legal structure, so we</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>would be a B Corp *in addition* to a C-Corp or LLC or non-profit or other</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>structure we chose, not *instead of*.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On non-profit status: Being a non-profit bring advantages beyond just</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>being exempt from federal income tax:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>+ Many foundations and charities only give to non-profits, if we were one,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>we could apply for grants and stuff.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>+ Individuals can deduct donations to non-profits from their own income</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>taxes</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>+ California waives the $800 annual minimum franchise tax for non-profits</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>+ Many companies have donation matching programs, where employees who</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>donate $XXXX to a non-profit will see that contribution matched by their</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>employer, yielding 2*$XXXX for the non-profit.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>+ No one owns the organization in a non-profit. There are no shares, and</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>no issues with valuing those shares if the organization owns property and</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>that property appreciates in value. There can be members, and the rights of</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>the members would be chosen by us, and are described in the bylaws of the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>organization. (Noisebridge's bylaws<<a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/images/4/47/Noisebridge-bylaws-as-filed.pdf">https://www.noisebridge.net/images/4/47/Noisebridge-bylaws-as-filed.pdf</a>>,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>for reference.) One-member/one-vote is quite typical.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>My best guess would be that sudoroom should probably be a non-profit. In</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>this structure, there would be a Board of Directors, whose actions could be</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>constrained by the by-laws to act as the members direct.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>I'm happy to answer any questions folks might have. The wednesday meetings</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>have been tough for me to attend over the last few months, but I hope to</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>make it to more in the future!</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Best,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>J.D.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 7:40 PM, GtwoG PublicOhOne <<a href="mailto:g2g-public01@att.net">g2g-public01@att.net</a>>wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>A few things about incorporation (I am not a lawyer, this is not legal</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>advice):</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>S corps: Last I checked these were limited to 35 owners, all of whom had</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>to be US citizens.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>C corps: The entity most people think of when they say "corporation."</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>No limit to the number of owners, and owners may also be persons other</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>than US citizens.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>B corps: A "B-corp" is a corporation that states a set of intrinsic</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>values & principles as part of its structure, supplementing or</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>supplanting the default assumption that the primary purpose to be served</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>is to increase shareholder value.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>In each of the above structures, ownership shares are equal to dollars</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>invested, and the vote inheres in the shares rather than in the persons</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>(thus you can have unequal voting power based on share ownership).</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>There are possible mechanisms for a one-person/ one-vote system, based</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>on having two or more classes of shares, such as "preferred shares" and</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>"common shares." This enables you to have one class of shares that has</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>voting power, and one class of shares that does not have voting power</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>but has preference in allocation of dividends when profits are earned.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Thus for a one-person/ one-vote system, you'd sell only one share of</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>voting stock to each person, and as many shares of non-voting stock to</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>each person as matches their financial investment. Setting up this type</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>of system requires an attorney to ensure that it meets legal</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>requirements to protect the owners and investors.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>In addition there are three types of co-operative structures, which are</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>also incorporated entities that confer the same "limited liability"</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>protections as other types of corporations:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>"Consumer coops" also include most worker-owned coops, where individual</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>persons are the members and owners.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>"Producer coops" serve individuals and companies that produce goods &</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>services, such as a dairy marketing coop that serves dairy farmers. In</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>this case, the members have some common interest in shared productive</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>resources such as infrastructure.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>"Central organizations" are coops that have other coops as members, such</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>as a network of coops in a geographic area or common field of business,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>or sharing infrastructure in the manner of a producer coop whose members</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>are coops.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>In each of these cooperative structures, you have membership shares,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>allocated one share to each member for a fixed price, such that each</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>member has one share and one vote. Thus the one-person/ one-vote</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>principle is built into the structure without need of multiple classes</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>of shares.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>LLCs:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>LLCs were originally designed as hybrid structures to accommodate groups</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>of professionals such as doctors and lawyers engaged in group practice,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>but have since become used for other types of business, real estate</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>ownership, etc. LLCs were deliberately designed to be flexible in their</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>legal structure and methods of governance. In an LLC, the vote is also</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>separate from the investment share, such that you can create a</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>one-person/ one-vote system, with less complication than in a C-corp or</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>S-corp.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>One thing to be careful of, for any type of legal entity, and this will</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>require legal advice to get it right, is to make sure that your share</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>price or membership price does not increase in a manner that you can't</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>control, such as to make it impossible for new persons to buy in.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>This can occur when the primary asset is real estate, as the "assessed</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>value" of the property increases over time. This was historically a</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>problem in some forestry coops in the Pacific Northwest, and some other</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>cases that are known in the literature. I'm inclined to believe that</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>setting up a property as a "land trust" or similar entity, may be a</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>mechanism to hold the asset value of property more stable against</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>speculative increases in nearby property prices, and so reduce these</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>risks, but this needs to be checked with a lawyer.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Corporations and cooperatives, and possibly LLCs, have Boards of</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Directors elected by the shareholders or members, and have three</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>positions that are required by law (any person may hold one or more of</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>these positions):</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>= Board of Directors: Elected directly by vote of the shareholders or</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>members (typically every two years). Makes policy decisions and selects</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>the positions below. For practical reasons the number of Directors</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>should be small enough to be able to meet without scheduling</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>difficulties, for example 5 - 7 people.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>= CEO: Chief executive officer. Signs most legal documents for the</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>entity, can make other routine decisions per authority delegated by the</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Board.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>= CFO or Treasurer: Chief financial officer. Responsible for the</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>entity's financial documents and statements.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>= Secretary: Responsible for receiving and for filing of routine</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>documents with various state agencies, and for maintaining</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>legally-required records of the organization.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>= Attorney of Record, or Agent for Service of Process: This is not a</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>"CXO" type position, but is typically required to ensure that any</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>documents relating to legal processes, can go to a specific person at a</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>specific address.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>All of the above structures, when configured for one-person/ one-vote,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>are representative democracies.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>To configure as a direct democracy of the members, Bylaws would be</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>enacted by the initial incorporators or first Board of Directors, such</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>that on specified issues, the Board is bound to act only in accord with</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>the direct votes of the members.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Thus you could empower the Board to make certain types of decisions on</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>its own, and other types of decisions only in accord with direct</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>democratic votes of the members.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>When deciding on a structure, it's useful to consider the distinction</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>between the types of decisions that can be handled by "delegated</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>authority" such as by the Board, CEO, CFO, and Secretary, and the types</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>of decisions that you'd prefer to handle by direct vote of the members.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>It's also useful to consider the threshold of direct vote required to</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>pass a proposal. The default options in most types of structures are</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>50%+1 for most types of decisions, and 2/3 majority for changes of the</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Bylaws and other structural decisions. On the other hand, pure</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>consensus sets a 100% threshold, and varying degrees of near-consensus</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>can set other thresholds such as 80% for specified purposes.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>One thing to keep in mind for Federal 501 tax-exempt organizations</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>(religious, scientific, educational, or charitable entities) is that the</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>law prohibits persons in decision-making capacities from receiving</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>monetary benefits from the entity. In discussions of</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>democratically-managed entities, this is usually interpreted to mean</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>that workers/employees/contractors of an entity, are not allowed to have</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>voting power, since they receive wages/salaries/etc. from the entity.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>So to the extent that the entity expects to pay any of its members for</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>services they provide, or pay out any kind of dividendsre or</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>retained-earnings distributions, this issue will need to be considered,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>and it also requires input from an attorney to get it right.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>-G.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>=====</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On 13-10-05-Sat 6:13 PM, Yardena Cohen wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>This was meant to get sent out after Wednesday's meeting. Sorry it took</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>so long.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>In short, we are coming close to filing Sudoroom as a California</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>corporation. We want to do this as consensually and horizontally as</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>possible, but also soon. As in, the next few weeks. Let this e-mail</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>thread be your official opportunity to lobby objections, concerns and</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>desires. Here is some background for clarity, and some homework.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>PROFIT vs NON-PROFIT: this is the distinction that gets talked about</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>most often, but actually seems to be the most remote/non-issue</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>question right now. 501 (c3, c5, c*) is a chapter of the Federal IRC,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>meaning it ONLY relates to Federal income taxes. You ask the IRS to</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>recognize you, and they take a few years to start letting you keep</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>your money. But we're NOT AT THIS STAGE YET because legally we DON'T</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>even EXIST YET.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>INCORPORATION: this is how you exist. It is not a federal process -</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>you ask your U.S. State to recognize you. Each state does it a little</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>differently. Generally the old traditional type of corporation is a</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>C-Corp, and newer types are LLC and B-Corp. This is something we all</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>need to learn more about! We need to decide the pros and cons of each</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>type. That is our homework assignment #1.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>WRITING OUR ARTICLES: when we file papers we will have to submit</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Articles/Bylaws. This will be a legal document describing who we are</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>and what the terms and rules of our incorporation are. It is</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>OPEN-ENDED meaning very hackable but also intimidating. It's been</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>proposed that we use Noisebridge's articles as a starting point and</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>edit them to our liking to make them most Sudo-appropriate. It's on</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>our wiki now: <a href="https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Bylaws_in_progress">https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Bylaws_in_progress</a> Reading,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>understanding, and hacking at this document is homework assignment #2!</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>MEMBERSHIP: observant readers will note incorporation implies there</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>are "owners." We have to figure out once and for all how to decide</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>membership. This is it, folks. Time for us all to step up and ask "who</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>the fuck are we?"</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>So, in summary, the next steps are:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> 1) Decide on LLC vs C vs B Corp</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> 2) Write articles/bylaws to file with</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> 3) who the fuck are we?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>sudo-discuss mailing list</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>sudo-discuss mailing list</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>sudo-discuss mailing list</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><span>-------------- next part --------------</span><br><span>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...</span><br><span>URL: <<a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20131005/62020be5/attachment.html">http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20131005/62020be5/attachment.html</a>></span><br><span></span><br><span>------------------------------</span><br><span></span><br><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>sudo-discuss mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a></span><br><span><a href="http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss">http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>End of sudo-discuss Digest, Vol 12, Issue 14</span><br><span>********************************************</span><br></div></body></html>