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    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 05/11/2014 03:39 PM, Ryan
      Bethencourt wrote:</div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CABsHAf0u+L762bhkmhg0jDiDLmqLo9FwUx=Cy5MYhaK+WuuFNQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr"><br>
        Good points Sam and I agree that any improvements in
        neighborhoods should be inclusive to ensure that a broad range
        of residents (not just middle to high income) can continue to be
        part of the community, it's after all the diversity that
        enriches our community both racially, artistically and
        creatively. A big part of that is ensuring that a broad range of
        housing is available for all budgets (which cities like SF have
        failed to deliver on, which appears to be due to strong
        anti-growth mentalities which prices those who can least afford
        it out). 
        <div>
          <br>
        </div>
        <div>Saying that, <b>I'm just not a fan of how the term
            gentrification is being used, it seems divisive to me</b>,
          them and us, if we're a community space, surely we should
          embrace all of those who wish to add to the community and
          share their skill sets (regardless of race, income, creed or
          gender preferences and hold to non-discrimination). </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    This is a tactic used by governments and corporations.<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.popularresistance.org/heres-how-the-corporations-defeat-political-movements/">http://www.popularresistance.org/heres-how-the-corporations-defeat-political-movements/</a><br>
    <br>
    Ideally, there would be no borders or division between us. Ideally,
    we wouldn't label anybody as an outsider. I don't know how to build
    these communities if we consistently draw our attention away from
    planning and building something we share together, but focus on who
    to blame based on their ethnicity, sex, gender, etc.<br>
    <br>
    I would love to see more conversation about acceptance, compassion,
    and inclusiveness. Otherwise, I don't know how we're going to make
    that the reality.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CABsHAf0u+L762bhkmhg0jDiDLmqLo9FwUx=Cy5MYhaK+WuuFNQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div>Google engineers are being vilified and yet I think it's a
          failure of governmental institutions to develop adequate
          policies to ensure a full range of housing and services are
          available for those who need it most and not engineers who are
          just looking for a decent place to live at a reasonable price.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>I'd definitely embrace a balanced dialog and on the pros
          and cons and how we can insure a more inclusive Oakland for
          everyone :)</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>All the best,</div>
        <div>Ryan</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
          <div><br>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 3:16 PM, Sam
          Tepper <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:sam.tepper@gmail.com" target="_blank">sam.tepper@gmail.com</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Thanks for the link,
              Ryan.  I don't think people doubt that gentrification has
              its upsides - that's why it's so sought after for so many
              people - but there are two main downsides, I'd say, that
              are against the values we generally try to hold at Sudo
              Room.<br>
              <br>
              1.  Gentrification and its benefits target white
              middle-class families.  Even if many or most original
              residents who stay are financially better off, those who
              are left are far less diverse, and racism plays a
              fundamental role in the gentrification process.<br>
              <br>
              2.  Gentrified neighborhoods are generally home to fewer
              artists, immigrants, and even aspiring hackers because
              these people can frequently be poor to the point of
              destitution, even when their skill level is high.<br>
              <br>
              We do need to address the positives in order to have a
              dialog, to educate and address the problems behind most
              gentrification efforts, and try to increase financial
              health and stability in more positive, socially
              responsible ways.<span class="HOEnZb"><font
                  color="#888888"><br>
                  <br>
                  -Sam</font></span>
              <div>
                <div class="h5"><br>
                  <br>
                  <div>On 05/11/2014 02:38 PM, Ryan Bethencourt wrote:<br>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote type="cite"> I'm intrigued by this
                    discussion, what's seemed odd to me for a while is
                    that the conversation seems to be very one sided,
                    i.e. all gentrification is bad, yet what about if it
                    isn't? What if a rising tide lifts all boats?<br>
                    <br>
                    I came across an article a while back that was
                    published on NPR (not known for being biased one way
                    or the other) which discussed the data which
                    actually tended to support the positive aspects of
                    gentrification for residents of poorer
                    neighborhoods. It's worth a read:<br>
                    <br>
                    <span>
                      <p style="margin:0px 88.8281px 1.3em
                        auto;padding:0px 15px;border:0px
none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:1.6rem;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:1.5;vertical-align:baseline;float:none;min-height:1px;width:690px;color:rgb(17,17,17);max-width:690px;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><small><small>"We're

                            finding that the financial health of
                            original residents in gentrifying
                            neighborhoods seems to be increasing, as
                            compared to original residents in
                            nongentrifying, low-priced neighborhoods,"
                            says Daniel Hartley, a research economist
                            with the bank."<br>
                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.npr.org/2014/01/22/264528139/long-a-dirty-word-gentrification-may-be-losing-its-stigma"
                              target="_blank">http://www.npr.org/2014/01/22/264528139/long-a-dirty-word-gentrification-may-be-losing-its-stigma</a><br>
                          </small></small></p>
                      I would also make the argument that spaces like
                      Sudo Room, Public Schools, LOL space, Counter
                      Culture labs and etc actually make a net positive
                      impact for the entire community and yet do have a
                      gentrifying effect. </span>We have much work yet
                    to do but communal spaces, open education and the
                    maker movement have the potential to empower many
                    communities and I say that as someone that hopes to
                    do more to help lift others up, I think most of us
                    are of the same mindset?<br>
                    <br>
                    Upwards and Onwards!<br>
                    Ryan<br>
                    <br>
                    <blockquote style="border:0px none" type="cite">
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                          solid #edeef0;padding-top:5px">
                          <div
                            style="display:table-cell;vertical-align:middle;padding-right:6px"><img
src="cid:part3.04080906.03020700@cryptolab.net"
                              name="145ed5bcb99bf152_postbox-contact.jpg"
                              height="25px" width="25px"></div>
                          <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:100%">
                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:sonja.trauss@gmail.com"
style="color:#737f92!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none!important"
                              target="_blank">Sonja Trauss</a></div>
                          <div
                            style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle">
                            <font color="#9FA2A5"><span
                                style="padding-left:6px">May 11, 2014 at
                                10:43 AM</span></font></div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div
                        style="color:#888888;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px">Quick
                        point - you guys know that it was the housing
                        market crash (sudden DECREASE in home values)
                        that set off waves of foreclosures, right?
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>In other words, suppose you're in one of
                          these loans. You realized what is about
                          to happen to you ("FUCK! I can't afford the
                          mortgage after reset!) let's look at two
                          scenereos: </div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>Scenereo one: the value of your house has
                          increased since you purchased it two years
                          ago. The house is worth more than you owe on
                          it, and there are many buyers interested in
                          buying homes like yours in your area. </div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>Scenereo two: the value of your home has
                          decreased since you purchased it two years
                          ago. The house is worth less than you owe on
                          it, and there are very few people interested
                          in buying homes like yours in your area. </div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>Which scenero is better for you? What do
                          you do in each scenereo? </div>
                        <div><br>
                          <br>
                          On Sunday, May 11, 2014, Autonomous <<a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:autonomous666@gmail.com"
                            target="_blank">autonomous666@gmail.com</a>>


                          wrote:<br>
                        </div>
                        <div>_______________________________________________<br>
                          sudo-discuss mailing list<br>
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org"
                            target="_blank">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a><br>
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss"
                            target="_blank">https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a><br>
                        </div>
                      </div>
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                        <div
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                          solid #edeef0;padding-top:5px">
                          <div
                            style="display:table-cell;vertical-align:middle;padding-right:6px"><img
src="cid:part8.08010409.01020208@cryptolab.net"
                              name="145ed5bcb99bf152_compose-unknown-contact.jpg"
                              height="25px" width="25px"></div>
                          <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:100%">
                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:autonomous666@gmail.com"
style="color:#737f92!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none!important"
                              target="_blank">Autonomous</a></div>
                          <div
                            style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle">
                            <font color="#9FA2A5"><span
                                style="padding-left:6px">May 11, 2014 at
                                9:56 AM</span></font></div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div
                        style="color:#888888;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px">
                        <div dir="ltr">
                          <div>><span
                              style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:18px">Oakland

                              gentrifica</span><span
                              style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:18px">tion

                              is very well planned & executed</span></div>
                          <div> <span
                              style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:18px"><br>
                            </span></div>
                          <div>Indeed. It is particularly reprehensible
                            that specific neighborhoods in Oakland were
                            targeted for predatory loans and fraudulent
                            foreclosures. The attached image shows
                            foreclosures in Oakland represented by small
                            dots which is overlaid onto demographic data
                            showing non-white neighborhoods in red and
                            white neighborhoods in blue. See a pattern
                            here? This is a form of economic warfare
                            targeted against people of color who have
                            lost a massive amount of wealth while
                            investors have moved in to profit from the
                            resulting increase in real estate values.</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>The scam involves a loan with very low
                            interest for a period of two years followed
                            by a dramatic increase in interest. When
                            people ask for a loan modification, they are
                            told they need to miss a payment in order to
                            qualify - it's in the servicing contract.
                            Then, upon missing one payment, the bank
                            refuses to accept any more payments by
                            giving the run-around and the home is
                            subsequently foreclosed upon. If that wasn't
                            enough, people are forcibly removed from
                            their homes by illegal eviction proceedings.
                            Typically the unfortunate former homeowner
                            only learns about the eviction when the
                            police show up to kick them out on the
                            street along with all their possessions.
                            This is because they aren't served properly
                            and have no idea a court action even
                            existed. This pattern was repeated over and
                            over in Oakland, as you can see in the
                            attached image.</div>
                          <div><span
                              style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:18px"><br>
                            </span><img moz-do-not-send="true"
                              name="145ed5bcb99bf152_image.png"
                              alt="Inline image 2"
                              height="263.12649164677805" width="525"></div>
                        </div>
                        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                        <div>_______________________________________________<br>
                          sudo-discuss mailing list<br>
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                            href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org"
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                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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                            target="_blank">https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a><br>
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                      <div style="margin:30px 25px 10px 25px">
                        <div
                          style="display:table;width:100%;border-top:1px
                          solid #edeef0;padding-top:5px">
                          <div
                            style="display:table-cell;vertical-align:middle;padding-right:6px"><img
src="cid:part13.07040700.08010405@cryptolab.net"
                              name="145ed5bcb99bf152_postbox-contact.jpg"
                              height="25px" width="25px"></div>
                          <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:100%">
                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:patrikd@gmail.com"
style="color:#737f92!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none!important"
                              target="_blank">Patrik D'haeseleer</a></div>
                          <div
                            style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle">
                            <font color="#9FA2A5"><span
                                style="padding-left:6px">May 10, 2014 at
                                7:33 PM</span></font></div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div
                        style="color:#888888;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px">
                        <div dir="ltr">
                          <div class="gmail_extra">
                            <div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, May 10,
                              2014 at 7:29 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="mailto:batkid@gmx.com"
                                  target="_blank">batkid@gmx.com</a>></span>
                              wrote:<br>
                              <blockquote style="margin:0 0 0
                                .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                solid;padding-left:1ex"
                                class="gmail_quote"> Don't worry,
                                Oakland won't become the East Hamptons
                                anytime soon<br>
                                <br>
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_25737160/oakland-man-shot-driving-truck-near-courthouse"
                                  target="_blank">http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_25737160/oakland-man-shot-driving-truck-near-courthouse</a><br>
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_25732368/jurors-convict-man-murdering-two-west-oakland-neighborhood"
                                  target="_blank">http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_25732368/jurors-convict-man-murdering-two-west-oakland-neighborhood</a><br>
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_25731273/oakland-man-dies-from-injuries-from-downtown-fight"
                                  target="_blank">http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_25731273/oakland-man-dies-from-injuries-from-downtown-fight</a></blockquote>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div>Oh good - I was getting worried about
                                having too many museum shows and cat
                                video festivals in the neighborhood...</div>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div>Patrik </div>
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <blockquote style="margin:0 0 0
                                .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                solid;padding-left:1ex"
                                class="gmail_quote">
                                <div>-----Original message-----<br>
                                  Sent: Saturday, 10 May 2014 at
                                  21:30:39<br>
                                  From: "Romy Snowyla" <<a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:romy@snowyla.com"
                                    target="_blank">romy@snowyla.com</a>><br>
                                  To: "Sudo Room Discussion List" <<a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org"
                                    target="_blank">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>><br>
                                  Subject: [sudo-discuss] Oakland
                                  gentrification is very well planned
                                  & executed<br>
                                  The museum shows, the cat festival.. I
                                  guess we are all part of the master
                                  plan : P<br>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <div>_______________________________________________<br>
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                                      href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org"
                                      target="_blank">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a><br>
                                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss"
                                      target="_blank">https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a><br>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </blockquote>
                            </div>
                            <br>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <pre>_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org" target="_blank">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a>
</pre>
                      </div>
                      <div style="margin:30px 25px 10px 25px">
                        <div
                          style="display:table;width:100%;border-top:1px
                          solid #edeef0;padding-top:5px">
                          <div
                            style="display:table-cell;vertical-align:middle;padding-right:6px"><img
src="cid:part8.08010409.01020208@cryptolab.net"
                              name="145ed5bcb99bf152_compose-unknown-contact.jpg"
                              height="25px" width="25px"></div>
                          <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:100%">
                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:batkid@gmx.com"
style="color:#737f92!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none!important"
                              target="_blank">batkid@gmx.com</a></div>
                          <div
                            style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle">
                            <font color="#9FA2A5"><span
                                style="padding-left:6px">May 10, 2014 at
                                7:29 PM</span></font></div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div
                        style="color:#888888;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px">
                        <div>Don't worry, Oakland won't become the East
                          Hamptons anytime soon<br>
                          <br>
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_25737160/oakland-man-shot-driving-truck-near-courthouse"
                            target="_blank">http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_25737160/oakland-man-shot-driving-truck-near-courthouse</a><br>
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_25732368/jurors-convict-man-murdering-two-west-oakland-neighborhood"
                            target="_blank">http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_25732368/jurors-convict-man-murdering-two-west-oakland-neighborhood</a><br>
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_25731273/oakland-man-dies-from-injuries-from-downtown-fight"
                            target="_blank">http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_25731273/oakland-man-dies-from-injuries-from-downtown-fight</a><br>
                          <br>
                          -----Original message-----<br>
                          Sent: Saturday, 10 May 2014 at 21:30:39<br>
                          From: "Romy Snowyla" <a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:romy@snowyla.com"
                            target="_blank"><romy@snowyla.com></a><br>
                          To: "Sudo Room Discussion List" <a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org"
                            target="_blank"><sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org></a><br>
                          Subject: [sudo-discuss] Oakland gentrification
                          is very well planned & executed<br>
                          The museum shows, the cat festival.. I guess
                          we are all part of the master plan : P<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                          sudo-discuss mailing list<br>
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org"
                            target="_blank">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a><br>
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss"
                            target="_blank">https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a><br>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                    <br>
                    <div>-- <br>
                      <span> <span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important;float:none">--<span> </span></span><br
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
                        <div dir="ltr"
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">Ryan
                          Bethencourt<br>
                          <br>
                          <span>Tel:<span> </span><span title="Call with
                              Google Voice"
                              style="color:rgb(0,51,187);text-decoration:underline">(415)
                              825 2705</span></span><br>
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:ryan.bethencourt@gmail.com"
                            style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">ryan.bethencourt@gmail.com</a></div>
                        <div dir="ltr"
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">@ryanbethencourt</div>
                      </span></div>
                    <br>
                    <fieldset></fieldset>
                    <br>
                    <pre>_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org" target="_blank">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a>
</pre>
                  </blockquote>
                  <br>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <br>
            _______________________________________________<br>
            sudo-discuss mailing list<br>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a><br>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss"
              target="_blank">https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a><br>
            <br>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
        <br clear="all">
        <div><br>
        </div>
        -- <br>
        <div dir="ltr">Ryan Bethencourt<br>
          <br>
          Tel: (415) 825 2705
          <div>Conf Call: (650) 741 5013<br>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:ryan.bethencourt@gmail.com" target="_blank">ryan.bethencourt@gmail.com</a><br>
            <br>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.litmususa.com/"
              target="_blank">http://www.litmususa.com/</a></div>
          <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="http://berkeleybiolabs.com/" target="_blank">http://berkeleybiolabs.com/</a></div>
          <div><br>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.bamh1.com"
              target="_blank">www.bamh1.com</a><br>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/bethencourt"
              target="_blank">www.linkedin.com/in/bethencourt</a><br>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.logos-press.com/books/biotechnology_business_development.php"
              target="_blank">www.logos-press.com/books/biotechnology_business_development.php</a><br>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss">https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
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