<div dir="ltr"><div>I'm with Sam. Thought the wording and gist of the proposed changes were, in essence, rococo in their complexity. Sub-optimal from a user-interface POV. Simplify, simplify, simplify!<br><br></div>
Just my $0.02.<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Sam Tepper <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sam.tepper@gmail.com" target="_blank">sam.tepper@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Yeah, this seems a bit excessive to me. I don't think people should
be afraid to doze or fall asleep. Members already can kick out
non-members, and habitation is not allowed - why the need to take it
so much further? If there's a problem with a member sleeping in the
space, it should be dealt with like any other member conflict.<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<div>On 05/15/2014 12:01 AM, Gregg Horton
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">How about a nap pass? </p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On May 14, 2014 11:48 PM, "Marina Kukso"
<<a href="mailto:marina.kukso@gmail.com" target="_blank">marina.kukso@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">sounds good. something that might help in
documentation is an explicit message on the application form
(or wherever) that "membership is typically granted barring
some serious circumstances or reservations and that you
shouldn't take the application questions extremely seriously
because you're worried it might hurt your chances of being
accepted - just feel free to be honest." that wording's not
very good, but i think you get the idea.<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:22 PM,
Matthew Senate <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mattsenate@gmail.com" target="_blank">mattsenate@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">ah yes, I think the idea for that was to
generally side on not specifying too narrowly, but
instead to use "human judgment over automation and
efficiency" and cultural protocol to navigate it. I
think "serious issues" is a metric we are giving to
future sudo room members in order for them to weigh
heavily whether some issue that potentially prevents a
member from joining is in fact of a "serious" nature.
I'm of the disposition this means something that
conflicts directly with sudo room's values and the
articles of association.
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>I actually think this process could be fairly
easy to go through that doesn't need to be very
intimidating. At the meeting tonight, everyone was
in favor of putting time into implementing a better
experience for new members so that this policy is
clearly outlined and available in multiple formats
(paper, on the website, etc)</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 14, 2014 at
11:15 PM, Marina Kukso <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:marina.kukso@gmail.com" target="_blank">marina.kukso@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>thanks matt. i like both of the changed
wordings that you've suggested. i'd be
happy with either version.<br>
<br>
</div>
still wondering about the second issue -
what "serious issues" might be and what the
criteria are that the group would vote
people up or down on.<br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 14,
2014 at 11:10 PM, Matthew Senate <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mattsenate@gmail.com" target="_blank">mattsenate@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Phil,
<div><br>
<div>I think nothing in this
policy <i>prevents </i>tele-presence,
in fact, I think it would be
prudent for a prospective
member to, at the very least,
offer to attend the meeting
virtually if they cannot be
physically present. Either
way, the only requirement is
the prospective member submits
something concrete, in writing
(format unspecified, so
digital text seems fine).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Marina,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have no strong feelings
about the exact phrasing, I
think those questions were
carried over from Jake's
original(ish) proposal, maybe?
Marc, do you know where those
questions came from?
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>I do like the idea of
asking questions to get
three kinds of responses:</div>
<div>1. A response about why
they are interested, leaving
the opportunity for setting
some context to joining.</div>
<div>2. A response about what
specifically they want to do
(commonly folks have
particular projects or uses
in mind as they get involved
with sudo)</div>
<div>2. A response about
specifically how they see
themselves contributing to
the community, as giving
some sort contribution <i>is</i>
an expectation, but
extremely open / liberal. I
think "share" is a great
term to express this.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have no reason to think
we should hang on to the
question about "hacking" in
particular, maybe
alternatives:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
#** What is your
(pseudo)nym and/or name?</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">#**
Why do you want to be a
member of sudo room?</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
#** Do you happen to have
something in mind that you
would like to do at sudo
room?</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">#**
Do you happen to have
something in mind that you
would like to share with
the sudo room community?</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">That
being said, I'd also be
happy with the truncated
version:</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<div>#** What is your
(pseudo)nym and/or name?</div>
<div>#** Why do you want
to be a member of sudo
room?</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
// Matt</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:38
PM, Marina Kukso <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:marina.kukso@gmail.com" target="_blank">marina.kukso@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>thanks and
apologies that i
haven't had a chance
to be a part of this
discussion until
now. i have a few
questions:<br>
<br>
</div>
- re: <span>"What are
you excited about
hacking at sudo
room?" &</span>
"<span>What are you
excited about
sharing with sudo
room?" i wonder what
effect seeing these
questions on the
application would
have for someone
who's really new to
the world of hacking
and/or someone who
might not identify
as a hacker (ie,
someone who would
consider themselves
a "beginner" or
"just learning" - as
many of our members,
including myself,
do). like if you're
not sure what you're
interested on
hacking...or if
you're not sure what
you have to share
with sudo room. is
anyone else
concerned that these
questions might be
intimidating to
newcomers? (i ask
this genuinely).
also, what happens
if a prospective
member puts on their
application "i don't
know" or "i'm not
sure" for these
questions? would
that affect their
application?<br>
<br>
</span></div>
<div><span>this leads to
my second question:<br>
<br>
</span></div>
<div><span>Under
"initial pondering"
it says "</span><span>#</span><span>**
The intent is for it
to be very easy for
new members to join,
so only very serious
concerns should be
brought up." what
would a "serious
concern" be? also
there isn't really
any indication
like..what the
yes/no on a person's
membership request
is based on. does
the content of what
people put in their
application matter?<br>
<br>
</span></div>
<div>finally, what do
folks think is gained
by the hacking &
sharing q's? do you
think that you
wouldn't get enough
information from <span>"what
is your
pseudonym/name" and
"why do you want to
be a member of sudo
room?"<br>
</span></div>
<div><span></span></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>On Wed, May 14,
2014 at 9:15 PM,
Marc Juul <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:juul@labitat.dk" target="_blank">juul@labitat.dk</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span>These
are the
proposed
changes
brought up at
the current
sudo room
meeting. We
will attempt
to consense on
this at the
sudo room
meeting on
Wednesday the
21st of May at
7 pm in sudo
room.<br>
<br>
===Section 2.1
Qualifications
for
Membership===</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span>[...]</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<span>*
Successfully
completing the
process for
becoming a
member, below:</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span>==</span><span>==Section
2.1.0 Process
for becoming a
member==</span><span>=</span><span>=</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span>#'''Declaration
of Intent to
Join'''</span></div>
<div><span>#</span><span>*
To become a
member, a
person must
submit a brief
written or
spoken </span><span>"</span><span>Declaration
of Intent to
Join</span><span>"</span><span>
where they
answer the
following
questions:</span></div>
<div><span>#**</span><span>
What is your (</span><span>p</span><span>s</span><span>e</span><span>udo</span><span>)</span><span>nym
and/or name?</span></div>
<div><span>#</span><span>**
Why do you
want to be a
member of sudo
room?</span></div>
<div><span>#</span><span>**
What are you
excited about
hacking at
sudo room?</span></div>
<div><span>#</span><span>**
What are you
excited about
sharing with
sudo room?</span></div>
<div><span>#'''Initial
Pondering'''</span></div>
<div><span>#</span><span>*
It is only
possible to
become a
member at the
weekly sudo
room meeting.
Prospective
members should
attend if
possible but
can submit a
written
declaration if
they are not
able to attend</span><span>
in person.</span></div>
<div><span>#</span><span>*
At the sudo
room weekly
meeting, </span><span>every</span><span>
p</span><span>rospective
member</span><span>
must leave the
room while the
existing
members have a
chance to
bring up any
concerns or
reasons why
the
prospective
member</span><span>(s)</span><span>
should not be
allowed
membership
(referred to
as the </span><span>"</span><span>Initial
Pondering</span><span>"</span><span>).</span></div>
<div><span>#</span><span>**
The intent is
for it to be
very easy for
new members to
join, so only
very serious
concerns
should be
brought up.</span></div>
<div>
<span>#</span><span>**
If any
existing
member objects
to a
prospective
new member
becoming a
member, and
this cannot be
resolved
through
discussion,
then the
prospective
member will
not be allowed
membership.</span></div>
<div><span>#</span><span>**
Unreasonable
or frequent
blocking of
new members by
an existing
member is
grounds for
immediate
termination of
membership
based on a 2/3
vote.</span></div>
<div><span>#*
Upon
completing the
"Initial
Pondering",
such p</span><span>rospective</span><span>
members must
be
communicated
to the sudo
room mailing
list within 24
hours,
including
their
"Declaration
of Intent to
Join".</span></div>
<div><span>#'''Extended
Pondering'''</span></div>
<div><span>#</span><span>*
After the
Initial
Pondering, if
there are no
objections,</span><span>
there will be
one week for
sudo room
members to
raise
objections as
to why the
prospective
member should
not be allowed
to join
(referred to
as the
"Extended
Pondering").</span></div>
<div><span>#*
If there are
no objections
raised during
the "Extended
Pondering", </span><span>the
</span><span>prospective
member will
become a
member.</span></div>
<div><span>#**
The intention
is to provide
sufficient
time to ensure
all concerns
of those
unable to
attend the
meeting may be
heard.</span></div>
<div><span>#*
The new member
will be added
to the
membership
list and given
access to
desired and
relevant
assets and
services of
sudo room.</span></div>
<div><span>#*
</span><span>No
announcement
of this change
of status</span><span>
after the
"Extended
Pondering"</span><span>
is necessary</span><span>.</span></div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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