<div dir="ltr">Thanks, Jenny, for digging this back up! <div><br></div><div>This, I think, illustrates what can be difficult about these long email threads - it can often be hard to read through all of the emails (especially if you're not keeping up minute by minute) and keep track of who said what. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Important information can get lost and if people don't feel able to / desirous of reading through lengthly text blocks, important information can get lost / missed / people can feel ignored / unheard.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Thanks to everyone who is working through this - oftentimes emotional and frustrating - process. I am so proud of us all and feel so lucky to be able to be a part of it.</div><div><br></div><div>Love,</div>
<div><br></div><div>Niki</div><div> </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 6:54 PM, Jenny Ryan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tunabananas@gmail.com" target="_blank">tunabananas@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>
Hash: SHA1<br>
<br>
All -<br>
<br>
I would like to return to Daniel's initial email about this topic - the<br>
topic being "where would be optimal to host the server closet that will<br>
provide internet connectivity to the entirety of Omni and beyond (being<br>
a node in People's Open Network)?"):<br>
<br>
The proposal was to host the server rack in the utility closet (where<br>
the garbage cans currently are, and part of Backspace at this point):<br>
<div class=""><br>
"Since this area is not is not part of the SudoRoom space, we will have<br>
to talk about it with the rest of the Sudo-Mesh group and the group<br>
approves it, then we would have to present the idea at our<br>
Omni Collective meeting for approval.<br>
<br>
If approved by the Omni Collective, we would need to build:<br>
<br>
* A 2" or so high floor (two by fours and plywood would do, I believe.<br>
* A 55" x 65" cage with chicken wire walls and a door.<br>
<br>
If this place is NOT approved by the OOC then perhaps we should consider<br>
building the Server Room in the SudoRoom Space. High temperature and<br>
noise levels are the main issues."<br>
<br>
</div>Please chill and actually take into account the above proposal (which<br>
is entirely sensitive to this being a community decision about a<br>
utility that will come to serve the entire building and all collectives<br>
in it).<br>
<br>
Thanks for reading,<br>
Jenny<br>
<div class=""><br>
<br>
On Mon 07 Jul 2014 06:35:13 PM PDT, Matthew Senate wrote:<br>
> Please don't misconstrue my language.<br>
><br>
> If folks are participating in good faith, and they are not met with sincere<br>
> appreciation (not just rhetoric), they will no longer be interested in<br>
> participating. People who are willing to help will walk away if they do not<br>
> feel like it is worth their time.<br>
><br>
> I do not have interest in working on the physical network for the building<br>
> at this point. It seems like some other(s) may be able to manage it fine on<br>
> their own.<br>
><br>
> Anyone else interested?<br>
><br>
> // Matt<br>
><br>
> p.s. Nothing has been definitive in this topic. What I was hoping to<br>
> achieve with Daniel was a clear, succinct proposal to bring back to<br>
> everyone. The presumption from David has been that "we" (sudo?) just want<br>
> to railroad over everyone, despite protests from me (and others) about this<br>
> false assumption. I find this situation to be based on an assumption of bad<br>
> faith (despite the "good faith" rhetoric) since "we" (sudo?) are<br>
> "colonizing" the building (or something?)--not "improving" it or<br>
> "participating" in it. Willingness to hear a proposal does not imply<br>
> commitment. Obsession with deflecting the possibility of a proposal is<br>
</div>> *silencing* and is a practice that drains communities of their energy.<br>
<div><div class="h5">><br>
><br>
> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 6:21 PM, niki <<a href="mailto:niki.shelley@gmail.com">niki.shelley@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Whoah, y'all!<br>
>><br>
>> I think the main issue here is that the people involved w/Backspace aren't<br>
>> being included in this conversation.<br>
>><br>
>> It may very well be that that space cannot be converted into a<br>
>> consultation room for Backspace, but those who may be affected by that<br>
>> should at least be given a chance to participate in a dialogue about<br>
>> whatever it is that ends up happening and what that will mean for their<br>
>> ability to practice in the building.<br>
>><br>
>> Saying things like "Can't wait to see the plans..." / "Good luck!" feels<br>
>> like a real personal attack and really unnecessary / unsupportive -<br>
>> especially when it's being directed towards one person because they are the<br>
>> member of Backspace who happens to be on this particular mailing list.<br>
>> Especially when that one person agreed to come on board to help Backspace<br>
>> as an act of mutual aid.<br>
>><br>
>> I also feel like questions that have been put forth in good faith such as,<br>
>> "Why can't the server racks be stored in Sudo?" have not been answered. If<br>
>> there's a good reason, that's awesome. All I'm hearing, however, is a lack<br>
>> of willingness to have a conversation about potentially repurposing a space<br>
>> that another group had planned on using and all of the reasons why this is<br>
>> the only / best space for the server racks.<br>
>><br>
>> I think that's all anyone's asking for! An opportunity to participate in<br>
>> the dialogue and an explanation as to why this space must be used for this<br>
>> purpose over any other space.<br>
>><br>
>> Love,<br>
>><br>
>> Niki<br>
>><br>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
>> From: Matthew Senate <<a href="mailto:mattsenate@gmail.com">mattsenate@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Date: Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 6:03 PM<br>
>> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Server Room Status<br>
>> To: David Keenan <<a href="mailto:dkeenan44@gmail.com">dkeenan44@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Cc: "<a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> David,<br>
>><br>
>> Great, looking forward to you setting up the network somewhere as well as<br>
>> building out that store room in some way or other.<br>
>><br>
>> Can't wait to see the plans, approval, and funding for the store room.<br>
>> Maybe in the next 4-6 months?<br>
>><br>
>> You may want to note what Daniel said about 4ft of clearance (or similar)<br>
>> around those electrical panels. I think this may be the page of<br>
>> regulations:<br>
>> <a href="https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9880" target="_blank">https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9880</a><br>
>><br>
>> Wow, that's going to be a lot of work.<br>
>><br>
>> Good luck!<br>
>><br>
>> // Matt<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 5:48 PM, David Keenan <<a href="mailto:dkeenan44@gmail.com">dkeenan44@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> Jeez..<br>
>>><br>
>>> Matt, do you require all of the Backspace Wellness Collective to join<br>
>>> sudo-discuss email list to have this discussion collectively (and<br>
>>> therefore, productively), or inter-collectively as the case may be? We are<br>
>>> not all on Sudo's email list. Yes, I am on sudo's list, therefore I am<br>
>>> responding on behalf of many members of Backspace, because I, unlike You,<br>
>>> am in communication with all members of that collective whom are, unlike<br>
>>> You (or Sudo since You speak for all of us Sudoers?), most<br>
>>> likely negatively affected by this proposition. But this discussion really<br>
>>> should take place at the Omni meeting and/or on the omnilogistics list, or<br>
>>> at the very least, on backspace's list or at their meeting, since You are<br>
>>> talking about building something in Backspace, not the other way around...<br>
>>> if that makes sense?<br>
>>><br>
>>> This area you are speaking of is not Backspace 'with plans' to use that<br>
>>> room - any more than Sudo has 'plans' to use its room: Sudo is already in<br>
>>> that room, and Backspace is are already in their area too (a small cluster<br>
>>> of rooms). The area is clearly marked on the floorplan as Backspace and<br>
>>> this use has been discussed numerous times in meetings for a long time, as<br>
>>> has its rehabilitation, because its in poor shape.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Backspace is a small group with an enormous burden of tasks with respect<br>
>>> to rehabing that space and getting operations up and running. Sudo is a<br>
>>> comparatively large group with comparatively far less to do in<br>
>>> Sudo's own space to be functional. Backspace has a LOT to do with far less<br>
>>> resources, and I would ask that folks be kind to Backspace when demanding<br>
>>> things like build dates. Build dates are only a part of the timeline.<br>
>>><br>
>>> What it (worryingly to me) feels like is that You are insinuating is that<br>
>>> this is not Backspace, it is rather Your space to do whatever You think is<br>
>>> best with it. The corollary to this is that Backspace's existence is<br>
>>> itself also merely a 'plan' - I assure you, it is not only that. That you<br>
>>> do not go to Backspace meetings, doesnt mean that it, or the people in it,<br>
>>> do not exist. Yes, it is new, like the cafe, but it is also been a part of<br>
>>> the omni project for a while with all of the real life effort that entails.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Please lets all be kind to one another? We have only been in the building<br>
>>> one week. There is a lot of shared space in the Omni, and I think its fair<br>
>>> to say that a really compelling case has to be made if you need to build<br>
>>> something in someone else's space, rather than Sudo's own space or<br>
>>> in shared space.<br>
>>><br>
>>> In addition, I would guess it would not be not clear to backspace that a<br>
>>> rack of servers anywhere in the building actually will necessarily benefit<br>
>>> them or anyone else that is not Sudo. Pretty much the only thing I can<br>
>>> think if controlling door access and building-related infrastructure like a<br>
>>> couple of switches, maybe an AP controller. Does that take a whole rack?<br>
>>> Everything is Sudo.<br>
>>><br>
>>> What I would suggest is that several possibilities for a rack outside of<br>
>>> Sudo are explored and planned, and that the options are presented at the<br>
>>> Omnilogistics meeting so they can be discussed by everyone, not just<br>
>>> Sudoers. Does that seem fair?<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Monday, July 7, 2014, Matthew Senate <<a href="mailto:mattsenate@gmail.com">mattsenate@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> So what you are saying is that You (on behalf of Backspace) have plans<br>
>>>> to add improvements to that room (at some point soon, requiring approval<br>
>>>> from the landlord and financed presumably by Backspace). Further, that You<br>
>>>> (on behalf of backspace with plans for using that room) do not want any<br>
>>>> network devices or other omni-wide usage in that space since you'll both be<br>
>>>> building in it and using it in some way for Backspace after you are done<br>
>>>> building in it.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Is that correct?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> If so, what are the anticipated the build dates? And what stage are you<br>
>>>> at in terms of approvals? And what stage are you at in terms of financing?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Thanks,<br>
>>>> Matt<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 4:29 PM, David Keenan <<a href="mailto:dkeenan44@gmail.com">dkeenan44@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> I agree with you Matt 1000% on assuming good faith.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I am super pleased that people take it upon themselves to tend to all<br>
>>>>> that needs doing - it was in the first line of my first two initial emails<br>
>>>>> on this project.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Putting servers into backspace right now may seems like the easiest /<br>
>>>>> OSPF as a temporary, provisional measure for a couple of days.. I<br>
>>>>> wonder, will it be just as easy to remove them in a few days when we<br>
>>>>> begin laying up drywall in there and start refinishing that room, filling<br>
>>>>> it with debris?<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> After the room is finished, if the servers are too loud for sudo/ccl 's<br>
>>>>> 3.2k sq ft room - how loud do you think it will sound in a room a<br>
>>>>> fraction the size with practitioners in it trying to treat folks with<br>
>>>>> ailments, or get a relaxing tuia-na massage, or meditate, or quietly work<br>
>>>>> / read etc? A absolutely central idea of backspace is being a quiet space,<br>
>>>>> while 41U of servers sounds not unlike a jet engine in my experience.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Y'all, I really do have sudo's best interests at heart, and I would<br>
>>>>> urge everyone reading this that expressing concerns like these is not any<br>
>>>>> attempt to stomp on our collective creative do-o-cratic urges, but simply<br>
>>>>> an good-hearted attempt, however adumbrated or limited it may be, to be<br>
>>>>> practical and thoughtful by incorporating germane variables into a viable<br>
>>>>> server room plan that might lie outside your current matrix.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On Monday, July 7, 2014, Matthew Senate <<a href="mailto:mattsenate@gmail.com">mattsenate@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Don't micro-manage creativity.<br>
>>>>>> Be pleased that folks want to solve communal (omni-wide) problems<br>
>>>>>> right now; this will not always be true.<br>
>>>>>> Assume good faith.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> This being said, arguments exist on all sides. To me the questions are:<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> What are the problems? Need a place to put network utilities very soon.<br>
>>>>>> What are the constraints? Only certain kinds of places work for<br>
>>>>>> network devices, without intractable costs.<br>
>>>>>> What are the opportunities? Two branches (a) places that are<br>
>>>>>> convenient and already appropriate for setting up network devices (fast,<br>
>>>>>> easy) and (b) places that allow for integrating network devices into the<br>
>>>>>> heating/cooling systems (potential energy/cost-savings, require<br>
>>>>>> coordination, approval, and implementation with potential extra costs).<br>
>>>>>> What are the priorities? To me: speed, simplicity.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> In my opinion, we should put devices in the simplest place as soon as<br>
>>>>>> possible and move on to the many other, more complex problems.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> // Matt<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 3:08 PM, David Keenan <<a href="mailto:dkeenan44@gmail.com">dkeenan44@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> (Also I am thinking, low-power solar fans for mellow airflow into the<br>
>>>>>>> basement venting, like the kind had on boats, would be cool.)<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 3:06 PM, David Keenan <<a href="mailto:dkeenan44@gmail.com">dkeenan44@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> Also, re: ventilation in the basement - we have to recconnect the<br>
>>>>>>>> blower from the room (the 1'x3' venting) on the east side asap. On the west<br>
>>>>>>>> side, there is active cooling on the west side already (2x fans, plus<br>
>>>>>>>> windows above the sidewalk. There is also a large lightwell above the<br>
>>>>>>>> barr-room bathroom that could probably be easily gotten to. So, re: cool<br>
>>>>>>>> air (without a/c) to the servers if they are in the basement, we could pull<br>
>>>>>>>> cool air from the street or roof to the cold side of the rack, and vent<br>
>>>>>>>> heat from the hot side/top to the existing exhaust venting the furnaces<br>
>>>>>>>> use, or vent heat directlty to the basement in the winter, or vent perhaps<br>
>>>>>>>> to that lightwell... we can use thermostats in the room to trigger A/C from<br>
>>>>>>>> the compressor to the rack only if needed, and use ambient the rest of the<br>
>>>>>>>> time.<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> In general, the ventilation setup in the basement - what needs to<br>
>>>>>>>> exhaust separately, what venting is shared and whence does it come/go -<br>
>>>>>>>> needs to be coordinated with the FNB, La Commune, Black Hole, and OOC. It's<br>
>>>>>>>> a logistical issue that Sudoers I think would be really good at help<br>
>>>>>>>> sorting out, and I would really love it if we could.<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> As others have stated, we need a working group just for the basement<br>
>>>>>>>> and space there to hash out this stuff - plumbing is another equally<br>
>>>>>>>> pressing aspect. It's enough work and discussion I think it may be a good<br>
>>>>>>>> idea to set up its own email list perhaps on riseup or google, but I am<br>
>>>>>>>> open to suggestions about how best to comprise this.<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> Love<br>
>>>>>>>> David<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 2:30 PM, David Keenan <<a href="mailto:dkeenan44@gmail.com">dkeenan44@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>>>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>> Hi all,<br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
</div></div>>>>>>>>>> Again I am *super* psyched that we are tackling where to rack<br>
<div class="">>>>>>>>>> servers and very grateful to all who are putting energy and effort into<br>
>>>>>>>>> this.<br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>> Whether it be for servers or any other ideas about how to use<br>
>>>>>>>>> others' space and shared space, I feel the only real missing piece in the<br>
>>>>>>>>> discussion here, and actually to various degrees within pretty much<br>
</div>>>>>>>>>> *every* member collective actually, is not keeping in mind any<br>
<div class="">>>>>>>>>> other group's plans or ideas for a given space in the building - especially<br>
>>>>>>>>> for their very own space which they have already been promised are<br>
>>>>>>>>> technically in possession of.<br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
</div>>>>>>>>>> *For sure*, by all means, lets brainstorm about every possible<br>
<div class="">>>>>>>>>> place things like servers could go. If we are imagining the rack should<br>
</div>>>>>>>>>> *not* go into sudo/ccl's room (why not?), but rather elsewhere in<br>
<div class="">>>>>>>>>> the building, I think that's a conversation that should include others in<br>
>>>>>>>>> the building too, not just sudoers, because it affects others' planning and<br>
>>>>>>>>> use of space.<br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>> The same I feel is true for anyone else's plans to do any<br>
>>>>>>>>> build-out, and all buildout really should be discussed within the OOC as a<br>
>>>>>>>>> whole. This doesn't have to be a nightmare of endless meetings - its simply<br>
>>>>>>>>> a way to try to act in a coordinated and thoughtful manner in concert with<br>
>>>>>>>>> other groups in the space.<br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>> For example, in the hypothetical of Sudo putting a server rack into<br>
>>>>>>>>> what is presently another group's dedicated space (Backspace), that<br>
</div>>>>>>>>>> particular conversation should be had with that *group* from the<br>
<div class="">>>>>>>>>> get-go. For sure, hash out pros & cons on sudo-discuss, walk the building<br>
>>>>>>>>> with other sudoers - yes! - but that discussion should not take place<br>
</div>>>>>>>>>> *only* on sudo-discuss (or sudo-mesh), or *only* with other<br>
<div class="">>>>>>>>>> sudoers (me and Andrew). Also, the Backspace area presently needs a lot of<br>
>>>>>>>>> work - apparently, many people can only envision as a place for garbage, or<br>
>>>>>>>>> to get to utility panels.<br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>> Just because the Backspace area has not been fixed up yet, does not<br>
>>>>>>>>> mean it won't soon be. Backspace area is at a real disadvantage here<br>
>>>>>>>>> compared to nearly every other group, and I feel we all must be<br>
>>>>>>>>> understanding of this, as Backspace clearly needs more work (and<br>
</div>>>>>>>>>> *time* to do that) than pretty much anywhere else in the building.<br>
<div><div class="h5">>>>>>>>>> I mean, Backspace has far more intense permitting and structural issues to<br>
>>>>>>>>> address - we're getting architectural drawings (I had the architect over<br>
>>>>>>>>> yesterday partly for this reason), and planning it out thoughtfully - this<br>
>>>>>>>>> is not going to happen in one week or even one month. Also, Backspacers are<br>
>>>>>>>>> a much smaller, newer group than Sudo, in which almost everyone has day<br>
>>>>>>>>> jobs and simply can't be there alla the time - they are not on<br>
>>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss, nor necessarily should they be, at least any more than all of<br>
>>>>>>>>> sudo should be on backspace's list.<br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>> For those that don't know - Backspace Wellness Collective is a<br>
>>>>>>>>> regularly-meeting group presently comprised of four healers / bodyworkers,<br>
>>>>>>>>> in addition to Andrew and myself: Samantha, Margaretha, Athena, and Sarah.<br>
>>>>>>>>> So, the notion of building Sudo stuff into Backspace needs to be discussed<br>
>>>>>>>>> extensively with Backspace as a group. I see this model as applying to any<br>
>>>>>>>>> group wanting to build out in another group's space.<br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>> As you can imagine Backspace is having their own internal<br>
>>>>>>>>> discussions about how articulate their model, including how best to build<br>
>>>>>>>>> out, refinish, and make use of that physical area. Consider that if you<br>
>>>>>>>>> blow away part of Backspace's area or an entire room for a different use,<br>
>>>>>>>>> you are also potentially actually talking about removing an individual from<br>
>>>>>>>>> Backspace, who would have used that room for their practice. I think it<br>
>>>>>>>>> might be best to think about the pro's of putting servers into backspace in<br>
>>>>>>>>> that way: Do you really feel that strongly about having servers there that<br>
>>>>>>>>> you are willing to do ask that of another group? So you see what I mean<br>
>>>>>>>>> here.<br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>> Anyhow, to a less intensive extent that conversation should also be<br>
>>>>>>>>> had with the Omni Oakland Commons as a whole (in the omnilogistics list),<br>
>>>>>>>>> especially if you see the servers as serving the entire building, not just<br>
>>>>>>>>> sudo (which would need to be explained to everyone else too - easily enough<br>
>>>>>>>>> done, but the common use of these servers should be clarified.)<br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>> Regarding server racks specifically and knowing sudo frankly I am<br>
>>>>>>>>> somewhat doubtful that racks would be simply be left alone in a<br>
>>>>>>>>> set-and-forget mode as much as has been inferred. Rather, I imagine sudo<br>
>>>>>>>>> will actually need not-infrequent physical access.. to hack on things,<br>
>>>>>>>>> install and upgrade new donated equipment, etc. Therefore they should be in<br>
>>>>>>>>> a space where physical access is not an issue, and probably for permitting<br>
>>>>>>>>> issues alone not infringe on the area for electrical panels. The electrical<br>
>>>>>>>>> panel area should be closeted off no matter what and really never entered<br>
>>>>>>>>> unless a breaker is flipped which, with 200A (or is it 240A?) of power and<br>
>>>>>>>>> solid distribution throughout the building, and thoughtful planning re:<br>
>>>>>>>>> circuit load, I see as being rare. Yes, a number of the circuits are<br>
>>>>>>>>> powered off presently throughout the space - we will address that, and then<br>
>>>>>>>>> the electrical closet should be rarely entered, if only for safety's sake<br>
>>>>>>>>> if nothing else. My 2c.<br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>> Best,<br>
>>>>>>>>> David<br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 6:51 PM, Luis Murillo <<br>
>>>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:luis.murillo.plos@gmail.com">luis.murillo.plos@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>> Hey guys sorry I've been MIA today, been running some errands/TCB<br>
>>>>>>>>>> will swing by sudo later tonight and monday night :-)<br>
>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 6:08 PM, Somebody <<a href="mailto:somebody@riseup.net">somebody@riseup.net</a>><br>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>> Excuse me for resending this email treat, but the Sudo-mesh list<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> was not<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> linked from the first email that I sent out.<br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thx!<br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Server Room Status<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2014 17:12:03 -0700<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> From: <a href="mailto:hol@gaskill.com">hol@gaskill.com</a><br>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: David Keenan <<a href="mailto:dkeenan44@gmail.com">dkeenan44@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>> CC: <a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a><br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>> >the compressor for that could also provide cooling for the<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> servers.<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> i think doing experiments on heat recovery and regenerative hx<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> are good<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> for longterm - using a compressor and refrigerant to cool hot<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> things may<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> be less green than using fans and just circulating fresh cool air<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> and<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> letting convection do the work. if there's no objection, we<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> could set<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> up temp racks where daniel and others propose until we can run<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> coax to a<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> more optimal area. i finally have some time this week so i'll be<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> around<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> to assist with low-level tasks in support of setting up basic<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> infrastructure<br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>> cheers<br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2014-07-06 10:00, David Keenan wrote:<br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> hey guys,<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I applaud the effort to find a good, secure server space! I<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> definitely<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wanna help.<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The main issue with using this particular room is, as you can<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> see by<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> looking at the floorplan, the Backspace wellness collective is<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> already paying rent on that particular area (NW groundfloor<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> corner) and will be making their own changes to that space.<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> Backspace<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> is myself, Andrew of course, Margaretha, Athena, and Sarah.<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The wellness collective needs quiet - thats partly an<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> attraction for<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> that corner of the building - and, a cabinet full of fans plus<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> almost<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> certainly AC for the cabinet, is loud. Also, it takes up<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> Backspace,<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> and to be honest, i have hard time inamagining Sudo wont need<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> to get<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> into it alla the time, so it seems nonideal to me.<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In general I would think, before using other essentially<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> non-shared<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> areas of the building for Sudo's servers, we would have to<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> actually rule out why building the room in other locations,<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> like Sudo<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> room, wouldnt work, and why we think actually that particular<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> location<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> in someone else's area is really the only place it could work.<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regardless of Bsckspace, having racked & stacked for going on<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> 20 years<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> that would not be my first location in the entire building for<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> a lot<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> of reasons.<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, a server cabinet / closet does not need to be near the<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> main<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> electrical panel. Nor does it does not need to be near the<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> street.<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We could find a room in the basement. There is excellent<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> ventilation<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> to the basement, that just needs a small fix. Also the furnaces<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> are in<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the basement, and heat from the servers could tap into that<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> venting to<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> actually help heat the building, which could save on energy.<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> Also,<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> there is a plan to build a walk-in in the basement - the<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> compressor<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> for that could also provide cooling for the servers.<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, in my view, we should attempt a green solution<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> that<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ties the serbers into the infrastructure for the building.<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> :)<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> d<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 5, 2014, Somebody <<a href="mailto:somebody@riseup.net">somebody@riseup.net</a>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> === SERVER ROOM UPDATES ===<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2014/07/05:<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Today Luis, Matt, and I did the walk in the building, and so<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> far the<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> only place that seems the<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> most appropriate to have the server room is the room by the bar.<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This area is the most ideal in the whole building because the<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> air<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> flow,<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> temperature, electricity proximity, and also because it is<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> where the<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Internet access enters the building.<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Since this area is not is not part of the SudoRoom space, we<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> will have<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> to talk about it with the rest of the Sudo-Mesh group and the<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> group<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> approves it, then we would have to present the idea at our<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Omni Collective meeting for approval.<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If approved by the Omni Collective, we would need to build:<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> * A 2" or so high floor (two by fours and plywood would do, I<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> believe.<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> * A 55" x 65" cage with chicken wire walls and a door.<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If this place is NOT approved by the OOC then perhaps we should<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> consider<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> building the Server Room in the SudoRoom Space. High<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> temperature and<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> noise levels are the main issues.<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If others have ideas/comments/or want to be part of this process<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> please<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> jump in. You may contact Matt, Luis, or myself (Daniel).<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This update and all other Network/Reboot project is found at:<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <a href="https://sudoroom.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Network/Reboot" target="_blank">https://sudoroom.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Network/Reboot</a><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This update and all other Network/Reboot project is found at:<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <a href="https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Network/Reboot" target="_blank">https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Network/Reboot</a><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thx!<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <a href="https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list<br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a> <mailto:<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <a href="https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a><br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> mesh mailing list<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:mesh@lists.sudoroom.org">mesh@lists.sudoroom.org</a><br>
>>>>>>>>>>> <a href="https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/mesh" target="_blank">https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/mesh</a><br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>>>>> mesh mailing list<br>
>>>>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:mesh@lists.sudoroom.org">mesh@lists.sudoroom.org</a><br>
>>>>>>>>>> <a href="https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/mesh" target="_blank">https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/mesh</a><br>
>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a><br>
>>>>>>> <a href="https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a><br>
>>>>> <a href="https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a><br>
>>> <a href="https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> sudo-discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> sudo-discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> sudo-discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org">sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss" target="_blank">https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div>- --<br>
Jenny<br>
<a href="http://jennyryan.net" target="_blank">http://jennyryan.net</a><br>
<a href="http://sudomesh.org" target="_blank">http://sudomesh.org</a><br>
<a href="http://thevirtualcampfire.org" target="_blank">http://thevirtualcampfire.org</a><br>
<a href="http://technomadic.tumblr.com" target="_blank">http://technomadic.tumblr.com</a><br>
<br>
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`<br>
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."<br>
- -Laurie Anderson<br>
<br>
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining<br>
it."<br>
-Hannah Arendt<br>
<br>
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."<br>
- -Stéphane Mallarmé<br>
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`<br>
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