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<p>On 9/7/14 10:12 AM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:hol@gaskill.com">hol@gaskill.com</a> wrote:<br>
</p>
<p>we've been thinking the desk/laptop load would be split between
two big power strips with one attached to the back wall and one
running from 3d printing area, so on 2x20A runs. so far we
haven't tripped a breaker that i know of (have we?) and that's
with the existing tentacle-suspension bridge infrastructure.
from what i understand, there were already $400 dollars
allocated for 'phase i' which has been circulating for a few
weeks now, and whit already paid out of pocket for the materials
to match the budget, and as far as i know has not been
reimbursed :(. with the servers getting their own dedicated
runs, the risks associated with a breaker popping in the event
of an extreme load are pretty low. my inclination would be that
unless someone shows quantitative analysis of planned loads
exceeding planned capacity (thank you judy for crunching some
loads!) then we can move forward with the plan that's been
refined over the last month. I do not know about any
limitations like de-rating breaker positions below their rated
capacity so there could be something we're missing.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>cheers</p>
<p> </p>
<div> </div>
<p>On 2014-09-07 08:54, J Clark wrote to hol:</p>
<div>Hol,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Just curious. If you have, say, 25 Sudoers each with a
laptop/3d printer/other power thing plugged in at the same time
to, say, a several extension cord plugs -- guessing average 75
watts each? (between Apple's 60W and 80W, guessing more would be
the older), that's 1875 Watts at once, at 110 V that's 17 amps.
(I think that's right.) This is reasonable for a 20A circuit?
(Seems so, just curious to know if there are other bits to
consider.)</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div> judi</div>
<div> </div>
<br>
<div>On Sep 7, 2014, at 8:27 AM, <a href="mailto:hol@gaskill.com">hol@gaskill.com</a>
wrote:</div>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:4247f787436996c8822aeee02248b74c@gaskill.com"
type="cite">
<p>i do think since CCL will be pulling from a different panel
that we should have enough amps from 4x20 amp breaker positions.
the balcony is set to get its own 2 runs (with one 20A plug on
each run) for the server farm and any amplifiers set to run
there, the 3d printing area and museum have a breaker run, and
the tool area will have its own breaker. the only complication
in my mind is the back set of outlets sharing a breaker with the
tools and someone bearing down with a chop saw just before
someone hits save on the new greatest cryptographic algorithm on
their laptop. that's what pushes it to 5 positions in my mind
if it were easy to get that 5th run energized.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>we do intend to run a separate 230V service later for the heavy
stuff over 2 outlets, so maybe we could identify a spot for a
breaker to be installed under stage 2. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>cheers</p>
<p> </p>
<div> </div>
<p>On 2014-09-07 07:04, Dave Pedroli wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px;
border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px"><!-- html ignored --><!-- head ignored --><!-- meta ignored -->
<pre>Fine by me. Just my opinion that loads add up. Indeed we use more things with small loads than ever before... I have worked on houses that get by on two fifteen amp circuits in San Francisco and I have had problems with two hundred amps 220 volts not being enough...
Dave
Sent from the surveillance van</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px;
border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px">On Sep 6,
2014, at 5:31 PM, Jake <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jake@spaz.org">jake@spaz.org</a>> wrote: I
disagree. We have very few things that use more than 100
watts, and the number is diminishing constantly. a laptop
takes no more than 100 watts max, typically around 50. 60 watt
lightbulbs are occasionally used, but more often we use 24
watt CFLs, when we're not simply using the overhead lights.
Desktop computers with their monitors take a total of less
than 200. 3d printers take between 50 and 100 watts depending
on how much heating is needed. A heat gun can take 1500 watts,
but a 20-amp breaker can supply over 2400 watts. Without a
more detailed list of what people expect to plug in, we can't
be sure one way or another whether there will be conflicts
requiring something to be plugged into a different outlet. But
my experience tells me that what we have sketched out so far
is more than enough. and we know for a fact that increasing
service will correspondingly increase costs and time to
completion, and complexity if we run out of circuit breakers
overestimating our needs. Worst case is that you have to plug
the second autoclave into a different outlet than the first
one. -jake
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px;
border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px">On Sat, 6
Sep 2014, Dave Pedroli wrote: Hi all, Going over your emails
and PDFs it looks good however putting more than a couple
outlets on a breaker will end up being problematic. Yes
refrigerators are smaller loads but there will be a time
when someone opens all one after the other and they try to
start all at once blowing a breaker and defrosting...
Autoclaves typically need their own circuit etc ... 13
outlets with 4 breakers is pushing it. If the majority of
use was to be laptops and soldering irons ok but the minute
a heat gun is plugged in poof, you blow a breaker. With
electricity and parachutes it's best to start out right
rather than build up to it. I'll go over the PDFs on my iPad
later and let you know what I think. The layout looks fine,
the number of outlets looks good it's just the the number of
circuits (breakets) that needs improving. Dave Somewhere on
the bonneville salt flats Sent from the surveillance van
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px;
border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px">On Sep 5,
2014, at 3:58 PM, Jake <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jake@spaz.org">jake@spaz.org</a>> wrote:
I believe the electrical panel in the balcony only
supplies one or two things (not including the robot, which
is a temporary connection) I think we should look into
simply moving that breaker box down ten feet so it faces
the server room, and be done with it.
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px;
border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px">On Fri,
5 Sep 2014, Whitney Lawrence wrote: Howdy,Let me begin
with thanking you for looking at the proposal. Your
interpretation of the plans is correct.{ Main ->
above stage panel -> balcony panel } is how the
proposed plan is drawn. There is enough room in the
balcony panel (which is the one located in the small
room that shares a wall with the server loft of
sudoroom) to accomplish phase 1 of the proposal. The
proposal is based on instruction received to minimize
cost. Ideally, there would be a main panel breaker that
supplies a sub panel for all of sudo's needs (phase 1
and phase 2). I can't accurately guess at a cost number
for this type of installation. Figure a 100amp sub with
hundreds of feet of 2awg plus breaker box plus breakers
plus conduit plus hardware. All depending on if the main
service can even handle the additional power demands
(hiring an electrician to run the calcs). Ballpark $3-5k
maybe- but its really a shot in the dark? My experience
with this type of thing is there is always a better way
to do it, if you go the money. A middle road is to plan
on having the future sudo-sub panel placed near the
balcony panel. Build in an extra 5ft or so of wire for
the future transition into the new sudo-sub panel. All
that would be needed is to remove the breakers from the
old box re-run wire from J-box 1 to the new sudo-sub, as
well as re-routing the 240V lines from the above stage
panel to the sudo-sub (and of course preform all the
main -> suod-sub work). as far as existing vs
proposed. only the sub panels mentioned above exist
currently- I'll make a note to call out the existing
stuff in the drawings. Thanks, Whit On Fri, Sep 5, 2014
at 11:42 AM, Cere Mona Davis <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ceremona@gmail.com">ceremona@gmail.com</a>>
wrote: Hi everyone. It's the first time I have looked at
these plans and I have some questions and thoughts. Dave
said he won't be able to respond to this email until a
couple of days as he is out in the boonies somewhere. So
I am writing in to expedite some issues that I think he
will likely bring up in the days ahead. Whit, thanks for
drawing up these plans! For someone who is not
intimately familiar with our electrical layout the plans
might need a more clear description of existing
electrical vs. proposed new electrical, however. In
multiple conversations with Dave (and one on-site visit)
he has mentioned repeatedly that we will want to shoot
for putting in another sub panel for the sudoroom off of
the main panel as the end-game; rather than
daisy-chaining off of an existing panel (the balcony) as
what seems to be proposed here. If we can't immediately
put in a sub panel into the room, due to cost, we should
at-least be planning for conduit and wiring paths, etc
that allows for a sudoroom sub-panel in the future.
Thoughts? -Cere On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 10:23 AM, <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:hol@gaskill.com">hol@gaskill.com</a>>
wrote: Thanks Yar! Whit can you liaise w/ Dave RE how
much of the work is going to be done under the first
permit? Cheers, Hol On 2014-09-04 23:16, yar wrote: Hi
all, Dave Pedroli is a certified electrician who's
offered to review our plans to give them an okay. I'm
copying him and the people who've been most involved
with electrical work. Dave, the latest plans are
attached, and also available online[<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/2014-August/007369.html">1</a>].
Could you please look them over and write us a few
formal-sounding sentences that boil down to "hello I am
a real electrician and I say these plans are solid"?
This will help us make the landlord happy so he will let
us do them. Thank you!! [1] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/2014-August/007369.html">https://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/2014-August/007369.html</a>
-- Best Regards, Cere Davis <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ceremona@gmail.com">ceremona@gmail.com</a>
------------------- GPG Key: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://taffy.findpage.com/%7Ecere/pubkey.asc">http://taffy.findpage.com/~cere/pubkey.asc</a>
GPG fingerprint (ID# 73FCA9E6) : F5C7 627B ECBE C735
117B 2278 9A95 4C88 73FC A9E6</blockquote>
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