Hey,

I also apologize for disappearing. Living in the bay area was depleting my savings faster than I would have liked and I didn't get some jobs I'd applied for, so I decided to head back to my home in NC for the fall, where I can live like for cheap and save up money. I'll hopefully be back in the bay area early next year. 

Thanks for the white paper Paige. It definitely sheds light on the value of Open Garden's approach. But isn't 802.11u designed to take on the issues that make it hard for a "community of hotspots" to emerge as a viable solution? I know someone with a passpoint setup who says it works wonderfully. Open Garden still adds a lot of value, but the paper would be stronger if it looked at the world we're headed towards, instead of the one we're stuck in today. Users won't need to manually select each access point and punch in credentials for that much longer. To quote the Wi-Fi alliances' FAQ on passpoints:

"For most users, Passpoint means that there will be no need for manual intervention when 

entering a hotspot running on Passpoint equipment with a Passpoint mobile device. 

Automatic detection and secured connection will occur provided the user is a subscriber of 

the entity running the hotspot or is a subscriber of an entity that has a roaming relationship 

with the entity running the hotspot."


Anyway, just my two cents. Look forward to seeing the state of the mesh when I get back next year. I'll keep listening in in case a problem comes up I can actually help with. Until then,
Jacob

On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 3:00 PM, <mesh-request@lists.sudoroom.org> wrote:
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Today's Topics:

   1. Open Garden white paper! (Paige)
   2. Re: Open Garden white paper! (Adrian Chadd)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:38:14 -0700
From: Paige <veeforvoluntary@gmail.com>
To: mesh@lists.sudoroom.org
Subject: [Mesh] Open Garden white paper!
Message-ID: <521F78F6.5070503@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

For those of you who haven't heard the news from Jenny, yet: Open Garden
decided to publicly release the original white paper "Multi-hop Wi-Fi
Offload <https://opengarden.com/Multi-hop_Wi-Fi_Offload.pdf>" by CTO,
Stanislav Shalunov.

Hopefully this brings some inspiration and answers some questions (ex.
Mitar: Why Bluetooth?)

Also, please excuse my lack of participation this past month - I'll be
back in the action next month. I'm also going to a festival called
Libertopia <http://libertopia.org> this weekend in San Diego where I'll
attempt to spread the word.  These people are really into alternative,
decentralized services.

I'm starting my drive down tonight so have a great meeting and enjoy the
weekend everyone!

Peace.
-Paige
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 10:13:41 -0700
From: Adrian Chadd <adrian@freebsd.org>
To: Paige <veeforvoluntary@gmail.com>
Cc: "mesh@lists.sudoroom.org" <mesh@lists.sudoroom.org>
Subject: Re: [Mesh] Open Garden white paper!
Message-ID:
        <CAJ-VmomPneE86orZtb_CWO6iTtB-s3+daCcsRcOYN7jA-jiXOA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

This is cool stuff. But, what we really need for this to be done on _open_
platforms is for someone to code up a Bluetooth 4.0 alternate-PHY thing for
some open source operating system that lets one glue the BT and wifi stacks
together so they can dump data where appropriate.

Now, for the real feedback:

* bluetooth is lower power and shorter range, but it's also much lower
throughput (compared to 11n) for the same range to an adjacent device;
* it overlaps the whole 2ghz range, so if you're doing a lot of bluetooth
transmit, you're interfering with nearby 2ghz wifi devices;
* it also will be an "or" with the onboard wifi - ie, you can't transmit
bluetooth and 2ghz wifi simultaneously on a lot of chips. There's an
antenna switch that stops you from doing this;
* almost none of the open source stuff has sane transmit power or rate
control hooks that would let you get away with much higher density 2ghz
meshing - why transmit at full power if you're only talking to someone 3ft
away?

I like what you're doing but a lot of what you're doing is tucked away in
closed source blobs. It's hard to implement that on more open platforms.

Once people here get their (atheros!) mesh hardware doing much more useful
things, I'm happy to sit down and do more brainstorming in relation to what
you can do with the hardware and how you can do evil things at the 802.11
layer.



-adrian

(still hacking away at TDMA and 11n in his spare time..)



On 29 August 2013 09:38, Paige <veeforvoluntary@gmail.com> wrote:

>  For those of you who haven't heard the news from Jenny, yet: Open Garden
> decided to publicly release the original white paper "Multi-hop Wi-Fi
> Offload <https://opengarden.com/Multi-hop_Wi-Fi_Offload.pdf>" by CTO,
> Stanislav Shalunov.
>
> Hopefully this brings some inspiration and answers some questions (ex.
> Mitar: Why Bluetooth?)
>
> Also, please excuse my lack of participation this past month - I'll be
> back in the action next month. I'm also going to a festival called
> Libertopia <http://libertopia.org> this weekend in San Diego where I'll
> attempt to spread the word.  These people are really into alternative,
> decentralized services.
>
> I'm starting my drive down tonight so have a great meeting and enjoy the
> weekend everyone!
>
> Peace.
> -Paige
>
> _______________________________________________
> mesh mailing list
> mesh@lists.sudoroom.org
> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/mesh
>
>
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End of mesh Digest, Vol 7, Issue 17
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