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Today's Topics:
1. Re: hydraulics (Morten H. D. Fuglsang)
2. Re: hydraulics (Morten H. D. Fuglsang)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 13:28:30 -0700
From: "Morten H. D. Fuglsang" <vallebo@gmail.com>
To: di.franco@aya.yale.edu
Cc: "omi@lists.sudoroom.org" <omi@lists.sudoroom.org>
Subject: Re: [omi] hydraulics
Message-ID:
<CALbJKfO9byjnqWcvOH-dTpQOr+tSpxp5mpH7goXaCvuRwozXLA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hol, awesome! We definitely need more expertise in the area of hydraulics.
And good links too, thanks to both of ye.
I was lurking the OSE forums a bit the other day. I found something that
scared me a bit:
http://forum.opensourceecology.org/discussion/1004/why-is-ose-so-quiet-lately
Some quotes:
*Yoonseo, OSE team*
*Just want to clear things up with the facts about what's happening with
OSE. First and foremost, everyone on-site left OSE after the huge conflict
year-end 2012 between the team and Marcin.*
*
*
*
Brianna, OSE team
*
*
Lies about the quality of the products. The brick press produced shit for
bricks. They didn't have one flat surface on them. I personally built 4 of
these, which were all shipped out without proper testing. One was shipped
out a year after it was supposed to be. The power cube worked for a week AT
THE LONGEST
*
*
Ryan, random dude.
*
*
I have a collective of makers that just received a space grant in upstate
NY that are making a list of first projects to focus on, and the OSE
Liberator and CEB press are near the top of the list. Hearing that the
Powercube design doesn't hold up to use and the CEB press being almost
useless scare the heck out of us though. Does anyone on here know who
purchased these preorders, or anyone that is using actively any iterations
of these pieces? I'd love to hear about their experiences.
*
*
Yoonseo, OSE team:
Hey Ryan, it's actually not so bad. OSE has been doing subpar builds
primarily due to haste and lack of care from Marcin, but the general
mechanisms (at least for the ceb press and powercube) are sound- we
couldn't have done the hablab/workshop without it. To be clear- the CEB
Press and Powercube work. Now the only issue is that you have to use good
materials and produce them properly (instead of the bad stuff that broke on
us over and over).
The inexpensive surplus engines for the Powercube have frequently caused
problems due to breaking magnetos; a bunch of the solenoids broke too.
Shoddy commercial parts! So on the powercube side, as long as you get
engines with reliable accessories, and long-life solenoids, everything
should be fine. Remember to seal the threaded hydraulic connections and
tighten sufficiently- hydraulic leaks are bad! Also, I think the most
difficult part of the powercube production for you will be sealing and
installing the ports on the gasoline and hydraulic fluid reservoirs. Make
sure you get this done right else you'll get gas/hyd fluid leaks all over
the place. When I was at FeF there's mostly been problems with hydraulic
fluid leaking due to improperly sealed connections. No explosions though,
heh.
Now the CEB Press can easily have issues surrounding its compression
chamber. If you do not use thick enough steel and insufficiently reinforce
the compression walls, you will get bending and that will get you curved
bricks. No good. Also the second thing was that the ejection surface must
be parallel or subsequent surfaces must be scaled in the proper direction.
Otherwise you will get the bottom of your bricks sliced by about 1/4" as it
gets ejected. Also make sure that the primary cylinder is high enough so
that the pressing surface can actually get to the ejection surface
(otherwise you gonna get some more bottom-slicing action). I think those
were the major issues. Make sure you put a pressure relief valve on there
eh.
Hope that helps! -Yoonseo
*
My conclusions:
* I predict OSE wont last much longer, and will ta some point stop being
the center of a lot of this open hardware infrastructure stuff. Groups will
fork it and improve upon the designs.
* hence thre is no need for us to associate ourselves closely with and
limit ourselves by, OSE. In terms of how we build and what we build.
Instead, it makes more sense for me to think of us as forking OSE.
* The CEB press can work if we use common sense and confirm the design and
do it very properly. If not, it wont work as well. We should not trust the
OSE plans and recommendations too much.
Make a great day,
Morten H. D. Fuglsang
US: +1 415 799 6931 // skype: FlyvendeHest
On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Anthony Di Franco <di.franco@gmail.com>wrote:
> See also https://www.surpluscenter.com/hydraulic.asp?catname=hydraulicfor all your cheapness in hydraulics needs.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Hol Gaskill <hol@gaskill.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> I haven't been around much for fabrication of the frame and probably
>> won't be there on saturday build days at least until mid june, but I would
>> like to help with the implementation of the hydraulics system. All the
>> designs I've seen are centered around the powercube which is powered by a
>> briggs and stratton engine. For simplicity and flexibility, I propose
>> using an electric pump either 12VDC or 120VAC, or a standard mount and
>> coupler so we could swap them out. It could still be powered by a
>> generator for remote applications, or ideally from solar/batteries. I just
>> see the OSE powercube as being a little more complex than we might prefer
>> moving forward, and we can still get the same force even if we go to a
>> lower power pump, the machine would just operate more slowly.
>>
>>
>> power unit:
>>
>> http://www.zorotools.com/g/00034368/k-G0711252?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google_Shopping_Feed&kw={keyword}&gclid=CNP1g9Ls1LYCFaR_QgodFgYA9A
>>
>> valve example (just a cheap one...not researched)
>> http://www.coastpneumatics.com/valve-3quarter.html
>>
>> does anyone know the force/pressure we need for the rams?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> hol
>> _______________________________________________
>> omi mailing list
>> omi@lists.sudoroom.org
>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/omi
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> omi mailing list
> omi@lists.sudoroom.org
> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/omi
>
>
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 13:33:30 -0700
From: "Morten H. D. Fuglsang" <vallebo@gmail.com>
To: di.franco@aya.yale.edu
Cc: "omi@lists.sudoroom.org" <omi@lists.sudoroom.org>
Subject: Re: [omi] hydraulics
Message-ID:
<CALbJKfO3fj4WsCg_ut_HkuL4KY6EYwSDjo0kKq8f-=pbV6tztg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
*Gmail came prematurely. To continue:*
Now seems like a good time to consider what we are doing and why we do it.
I talked with Tom, Mark and Jehan briefly about our state of affairs and
current direction. It made me realize that:
* Most of us are excited about metalwork and building a big machine. Most
of us are not specifically excited about the CEB press.
* I hate giving up on things, and this gives me energy for continuing and
finishing the CEB press regardless of findings about the state of OSE.
* I am also open for defining another thing to build (ie. small-scale
windmills), that might be more immidiately useful for ourselves and our
communities in an urban environment.
* Maybe those two work-foci are not mutually exclusive.
What are your thoughts?
*ALSO: OMI is of course on this Saturday from noon.*
I won't be making it as I will be hacking Marin.
On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Morten H. D. Fuglsang <vallebo@gmail.com>wrote:
> Hol, awesome! We definitely need more expertise in the area of hydraulics.
> And good links too, thanks to both of ye.
>
> I was lurking the OSE forums a bit the other day. I found something that
> scared me a bit:
> http://forum.opensourceecology.org/discussion/1004/why-is-ose-so-quiet-lately
> Some quotes:
>
> *Yoonseo, OSE team*
> *Just want to clear things up with the facts about what's happening with
> OSE. First and foremost, everyone on-site left OSE after the huge conflict
> year-end 2012 between the team and Marcin.*
> *
> *
>
> *
> Brianna, OSE team
> *
>
> *
> Lies about the quality of the products. The brick press produced shit for
> bricks. They didn't have one flat surface on them. I personally built 4 of
> these, which were all shipped out without proper testing. One was shipped
> out a year after it was supposed to be. The power cube worked for a week AT
> THE LONGEST
>
> *
>
> *
> Ryan, random dude.
> *
>
> *
> I have a collective of makers that just received a space grant in upstate
> NY that are making a list of first projects to focus on, and the OSE
> Liberator and CEB press are near the top of the list. Hearing that the
> Powercube design doesn't hold up to use and the CEB press being almost
> useless scare the heck out of us though. Does anyone on here know who
> purchased these preorders, or anyone that is using actively any iterations
> of these pieces? I'd love to hear about their experiences.
>
> *
>
> *
> Yoonseo, OSE team:
> Hey Ryan, it's actually not so bad. OSE has been doing subpar builds
> primarily due to haste and lack of care from Marcin, but the general
> mechanisms (at least for the ceb press and powercube) are sound- we
> couldn't have done the hablab/workshop without it. To be clear- the CEB
> Press and Powercube work. Now the only issue is that you have to use good
> materials and produce them properly (instead of the bad stuff that broke on
> us over and over).
>
> The inexpensive surplus engines for the Powercube have frequently caused
> problems due to breaking magnetos; a bunch of the solenoids broke too.
> Shoddy commercial parts! So on the powercube side, as long as you get
> engines with reliable accessories, and long-life solenoids, everything
> should be fine. Remember to seal the threaded hydraulic connections and
> tighten sufficiently- hydraulic leaks are bad! Also, I think the most
> difficult part of the powercube production for you will be sealing and
> installing the ports on the gasoline and hydraulic fluid reservoirs. Make
> sure you get this done right else you'll get gas/hyd fluid leaks all over
> the place. When I was at FeF there's mostly been problems with hydraulic
> fluid leaking due to improperly sealed connections. No explosions though,
> heh.
>
> Now the CEB Press can easily have issues surrounding its compression
> chamber. If you do not use thick enough steel and insufficiently reinforce
> the compression walls, you will get bending and that will get you curved
> bricks. No good. Also the second thing was that the ejection surface must
> be parallel or subsequent surfaces must be scaled in the proper direction.
> Otherwise you will get the bottom of your bricks sliced by about 1/4" as it
> gets ejected. Also make sure that the primary cylinder is high enough so
> that the pressing surface can actually get to the ejection surface
> (otherwise you gonna get some more bottom-slicing action). I think those
> were the major issues. Make sure you put a pressure relief valve on there
> eh.
>
> Hope that helps! -Yoonseo
>
> *
>
>
> My conclusions:
> * I predict OSE wont last much longer, and will ta some point stop being
> the center of a lot of this open hardware infrastructure stuff. Groups will
> fork it and improve upon the designs.
> * hence thre is no need for us to associate ourselves closely with and
> limit ourselves by, OSE. In terms of how we build and what we build.
> Instead, it makes more sense for me to think of us as forking OSE.
> * The CEB press can work if we use common sense and confirm the design and
> do it very properly. If not, it wont work as well. We should not trust the
> OSE plans and recommendations too much.
>
>
>
>
> Make a great day,
> Morten H. D. Fuglsang
> US: +1 415 799 6931 // skype: FlyvendeHest
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Anthony Di Franco <di.franco@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> See also https://www.surpluscenter.com/hydraulic.asp?catname=hydraulicfor all your cheapness in hydraulics needs.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Hol Gaskill <hol@gaskill.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Folks,
>>>
>>> I haven't been around much for fabrication of the frame and probably
>>> won't be there on saturday build days at least until mid june, but I would
>>> like to help with the implementation of the hydraulics system. All the
>>> designs I've seen are centered around the powercube which is powered by a
>>> briggs and stratton engine. For simplicity and flexibility, I propose
>>> using an electric pump either 12VDC or 120VAC, or a standard mount and
>>> coupler so we could swap them out. It could still be powered by a
>>> generator for remote applications, or ideally from solar/batteries. I just
>>> see the OSE powercube as being a little more complex than we might prefer
>>> moving forward, and we can still get the same force even if we go to a
>>> lower power pump, the machine would just operate more slowly.
>>>
>>>
>>> power unit:
>>>
>>> http://www.zorotools.com/g/00034368/k-G0711252?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google_Shopping_Feed&kw={keyword}&gclid=CNP1g9Ls1LYCFaR_QgodFgYA9A
>>>
>>> valve example (just a cheap one...not researched)
>>> http://www.coastpneumatics.com/valve-3quarter.html
>>>
>>> does anyone know the force/pressure we need for the rams?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> hol
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> omi mailing list
>>> omi@lists.sudoroom.org
>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/omi
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> omi mailing list
>> omi@lists.sudoroom.org
>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/omi
>>
>>
>
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