I see history as very cyclical
Revolutionaries in Vietnam, China, Russia, or the 1848 French revolutions or 1968 in Europe were all discussing similar topics. 

It's always good to build a new society
but it's interesting how people talk about burning everything in our society  down, as if you could describe the world in such simple black and white terms (nazis versus freedom fighters)

 it goes with the "killing it" vs "cuddling it" philosophy

I see the world in a much more complex way 



On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 6:13 PM, GtwoG PublicOhOne <g2g-public01@att.net> wrote:

Revphil & YOs-

Sorry to hear the news, and about your friend's predicament.  I would strongly suggest that you & your friend get strong crypto on your computers, exchange keys while you can, and make plans for contingencies.  I'd also suggest that s/he be careful about not getting identified as someone with dissenting views, until s/he can take steps to protect him/herself and family and friends.

Instant meme: "One day of Nazi power is more than hell."

Something to keep in mind: the root of evil is the desire to use humans as objects for one's own benefit.  The Nazi Holocaust was the logical extension of that: to strip other human beings of everything they have, and then work them to death as slaves, extracting every last bit of harvestable energy from them in the form of work, until they drop dead on the spot.  And when there are more slaves than needed at the moment, the logic of evil is to kill off the "surplus," and conquer new territories that can be "harvested" later if the need arises. 

The less brutal, less-obviously evil forms of oppression and exploitation, continue to smoulder and burn around the globe in every form.  All of them are directed toward the same goal: to treat people as objects to be used for the benefit of the powerful.

It's probably the case that today's Nazis have learned one lesson from the past: to avoid doing things that are too obvious.  Avoid starting wars, avoid concentration camps, because those things put the world on red alert.  Instead, use other means, such as expropriation, deportation, intimidation, and the slow suffocation of people and culture through social darwinist policies that wear them down slowly enough that resistance does not arise. 

But I believe that Hungary will not allow itself to fall to Naziism.  The Hungarian people are too strong and too smart, the lessons of the 20th century will not be forgotten, and even "one day of Nazi power" will not stand.

-G.

======



On 13-05-10-Fri 4:24 PM, revphil wrote:
My BikeSmut organizer in Budapest and I were talking about Hungary's democracy 3 weeks ago:

It's definitely falling, and these guys are building their dictatorship. I can't tell from which point is it considered done. I think the people of Germany were confused in a very similar way in the '30's. 
I think of that era a lot. Germany and Hungary in the 1930's. 
So much in common. A governance with strong, centralized propaganda, showing off to Europe as democratic, to Hungarians as organised, strict and self-confident, while actually institutions are run by dilettante idiots. They are quarrelling about who's in charge of what. Just like the 3d Reich. There are new laws and regulations literally every morning. Overnight laws. Like: let's criminalize this, I don't like this. And then a few weeks later it's a law. And if it doesn't fit the Constitution? Let's overwright the Constitution. Tomorrow. 
It's crazy, and bizzarre. 
Simply: am I looking at jobs abroad? Every week man, every week. My son is 2. And the new education system will affect his life in 1 or 2 years. I'm not gonna let that happen. 
But it's different then it's seen from the US. This is not going to be a long lasting dictatorship. And I'm not saying this because I'm an optimist. They are going down the drain in a few years. But on the way they will demolish our society, making more long lasting damages. And when they go down, the Nazis come up. Maybe not for long, but... One day of Nazi power is more then hell. 
So basically, yes on mid-term this country has fallen. A man's life. So there is a chance, that my grandchildren will speak Swedish, English, or German. 
I hope that makes it clearer.
<snip>

It is unnerving how quickly our institutions can fail us. Alarmist but encouraging to make communities.

rev

On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 2:19 AM, GtwoG PublicOhOne <g2g-public01@att.net> wrote:

Eddan and Yo's-

The third-largest Parliamentary party in Hungary is on an anti-Semitic
rip tear, staging a black-shirt rally and making statements that sound
like something from the Nazis of the early 20th century.

I ran across this in the Beeb today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22413301

Quoting the article:

"Hungary's far-right Jobbik party has staged a rally in central Budapest
in protest at the capital's hosting of the World Jewish Congress (WJC)
on Sunday. ...  The party, which says it aims to protect Hungarian
values and interests, is the third largest in parliament.  It regularly
issues anti-Semitic statements.

""The Israeli conquerors, these investors, should look for another
country in the world for themselves because Hungary is not for sale,"
party chairman Gabor Vona told the rally, according to Reuters news agency.

"The focus of (the WJC's) summit this year will be on the "alarming rise
of neo-Nazi political parties and anti-Semitic incidents in several
European countries, including Hungary", (WJC) says on its website."

And let's not forget the history of "ethnic cleansing" in Europe in the
past few decades:

As Max will attest, the UK/European English usage of the term
"cleansing", as in "Public Cleansing Department," refers to refuse
collection and disposal.

Thus the term "ethnic cleansing" implies the treatment of targeted
minorities as so much refuse to be disposed of.

Lest we think of America as somehow less infected with hate-viruses, the
United States Secret Service reported a 400% increase in threats against
the President during Obama's first term, as compared to previous
presidents.  400%.  That's just the most obvious statistic, but behind
it are poisonous attitudes of all kinds, that express themselves without
restraint in many many ways.

Never Again?  Never say "never."  Eternal vigilance is not only the
price of freedom, it's the price of preventing another paroxysm of the
supreme evils of which humans have proven themselves capable.

-G.


_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss



--
7 years of sex-positive, human-powered porno
________Hop on The Porny Express________
----------------------- Bike Smut ------------------------


_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss