On Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 9:40 AM, sudo-discuss-request@lists.sudoroom.org wrote:
Send sudo-discuss mailing list submissions toTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visitor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' toYou can reach the person managing the list atWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of sudo-discuss digest..."Today's Topics:1. Re: FUD around Lockpicking class (J.D. Zamfirescu)2. Re: FUD around Lockpicking class (Anthony Di Franco)3. Re: FUD around Lockpicking class (Anon195714)4. Re: FUD around Lockpicking class (Shawn Lesniak)5. Re: FUD around Lockpicking class (Anon195714)6. Membership dues - payment options! (Tommy York)7. Sudo Room Signage (Eddan Katz)8. Re: FUD around Lockpicking class (rusty lindgren)9. Re: FUD around Lockpicking class (rusty lindgren)10. Re: FUD around Lockpicking class (hep)11. Re: FUD around Lockpicking class (Anon195714)----------------------------------------------------------------------Message: 1Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 23:31:37 -0800From: "J.D. Zamfirescu" <zamfire@gmail.com>To: Tommy York <tommy.york@gmail.com>Cc: sudo-discuss <sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] FUD around Lockpicking classMessage-ID:Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"I called the OPD today to get stats on how many break-ins involve pickedlocks. The woman I spoke with was entirely unhelpful, saying somethingalong the lines of "all break-in methods are comparably common".Google searches suggest that ~5-10% of burglaries nationally involve pickedlocks.On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:26 PM, Tommy York <tommy.york@gmail.com> wrote:"OAKLAND -- One skill that appears all too common in Oakland these daysis the ability to pick a lock. Burglaries jumped more than 40 percent lastyear, and not all of them involved window smashes."This is a horrific excuse for journalism. Not all burglaries involvedwindow smashes? Oh really? And in that case, how many involved skilled lockpicking?Mencken would be angry.- tommy-----------------Thomas Riley York (???) 510.926.0510On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:20 PM, J.D. Zamfirescu <zamfire@gmail.com>wrote:more:On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:15 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate@gmail.com>wrote:It's awesome, free press!On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 9:40 PM, rusty lindgren <rustylindgren@gmail.comwrote:Oh dear gawd. This is possibly the most moronic piece of "journalism"I have ever seen.Are they unaware of the fact that you can go to a lock-pickingschool(actually it teaches you way more), and that this is just a cheaperversion of that? (see: http://www.lock411.com/training.html).Also, virtually no crime in Oakland involves skilled lock-picking,because it's a waste of time.Don't worry though, you can train in deadly martial arts, go to theshooting range, and buy ninja swords just about anywhere in Oakland, butpicking a Masterlock is "appalling".-RustyOn Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Anca Mosoiu <anca@techliminal.com>wrote:Hi everyone,Heads up. Looks like some folks aren't too happy that people arelearning how to pick locks this weekend.Here is Oakland Local's response:Anca---=-=-=-Anca Mosoiu | Tech LiminalM: (510) 220-6660http://techliminal.com | T: @techliminal | F: facebook.com/techliminal_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing list--Cheers,Rusty Lindgren**_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing list_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing list_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing list-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130227/62637b6b/attachment-0001.html>------------------------------Message: 2Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 23:50:47 -0800From: Anthony Di Franco <di.franco@aya.yale.edu>To: "J.D. Zamfirescu" <zamfire@gmail.com>Cc: sudo-discuss <sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] FUD around Lockpicking classMessage-ID:Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"If you knew how many different break-in methods the OPD recognizes, you'dhave an estimate, then.On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:31 PM, J.D. Zamfirescu <zamfire@gmail.com> wrote:I called the OPD today to get stats on how many break-ins involve pickedlocks. The woman I spoke with was entirely unhelpful, saying somethingalong the lines of "all break-in methods are comparably common".Google searches suggest that ~5-10% of burglaries nationally involvepicked locks.On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:26 PM, Tommy York <tommy.york@gmail.com> wrote:"OAKLAND -- One skill that appears all too common in Oakland these daysis the ability to pick a lock. Burglaries jumped more than 40 percent lastyear, and not all of them involved window smashes."This is a horrific excuse for journalism. Not all burglaries involvedwindow smashes? Oh really? And in that case, how many involved skilled lockpicking?Mencken would be angry.- tommy-----------------Thomas Riley York (???) 510.926.0510On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:20 PM, J.D. Zamfirescu <zamfire@gmail.com>wrote:more:On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:15 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate@gmail.com>wrote:It's awesome, free press!On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 9:40 PM, rusty lindgren <rustylindgren@gmail.com> wrote:Oh dear gawd. This is possibly the most moronic piece of "journalism"I have ever seen.Are they unaware of the fact that you can go to a lock-pickingschool(actually it teaches you way more), and that this is just a cheaperversion of that? (see: http://www.lock411.com/training.html).Also, virtually no crime in Oakland involves skilled lock-picking,because it's a waste of time.Don't worry though, you can train in deadly martial arts, go to theshooting range, and buy ninja swords just about anywhere in Oakland, butpicking a Masterlock is "appalling".-RustyOn Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Anca Mosoiu <anca@techliminal.com>wrote:Hi everyone,Heads up. Looks like some folks aren't too happy that people arelearning how to pick locks this weekend.Here is Oakland Local's response:Anca---=-=-=-Anca Mosoiu | Tech LiminalM: (510) 220-6660http://techliminal.com | T: @techliminal | F:_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing list--Cheers,Rusty Lindgren**_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing list_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing list_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing list_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing list-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130227/48afd37d/attachment-0001.html>------------------------------Message: 3Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 23:52:37 -0800From: Georgio510 <anon195714@sbcglobal.net>To: Tommy York <tommy.york@gmail.com>Cc: sudo-discuss <sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] FUD around Lockpicking classMessage-ID: <512F0CC5.1010503@sbcglobal.net>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"Yo's-On the other hand, the Mayor could send along a plain-clothes detectiveto hang out and keep an eye open for known gang members etc. "Just sayHoneypot!", and we're doing the city a favor.OK, so a few recent crime anecdotes:= A close friend's car window was smashed on the side street while wewere up at SudoRoom.= Another close friend's bike was stolen out of the common area.= A neighbor of mine's bike was stolen out of their garage today.= The officer who took the stolen bike report (Berkeley PD) said thatthe standard MO these days is for the robber to knock at the door, andif no answer, kick the door in. If the resident is away it becomes aburglary. If the resident is home, it becomes a home-invasion robberyor worse.= As another close friend of mine once said, "doors are a conveniencefor people who are polite." A strong lock on a strong door with a weakwindow nearby, is evidence of nothing more or less than a homeownerwithout the ability to imagine how baddies think.I don't see any lock-picking going on in any of those. As a method ofcommitting crimes, lock-picking is obsolete.And I do see an opportunity for some positive outreach to Mayor Quan'soffice, re. the opportunity for having a detective attend the event.This would be similar to how Quaker activist groups handled their plansfor protests, by keeping the relevant LE agencies informed. When Ilived in New England, I saw this first-hand, and it worked. Protestsorganized by those groups were successful, every time.Does anyone here have good relations with anyone in Oakland city gov,and want to volunteer to get the lines of communication open?-G.=====On 13-02-27-Wed 11:26 PM, Tommy York wrote:"OAKLAND -- One skill that appears all too common in Oakland thesedays is the ability to pick a lock. Burglaries jumped more than 40percent last year, and not all of them involved window smashes."This is a horrific excuse for journalism. Not all burglaries involvedwindow smashes? Oh really? And in that case, how many involved skilledlock picking?Mencken would be angry.- tommy-----------------Thomas Riley York (???) 510.926.0510On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:20 PM, J.D. Zamfirescu <zamfire@gmail.com<mailto:zamfire@gmail.com>> wrote:more:On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:15 PM, Matthew Senate<mattsenate@gmail.com <mailto:mattsenate@gmail.com>> wrote:It's awesome, free press!On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 9:40 PM, rusty lindgren<rustylindgren@gmail.com <mailto:rustylindgren@gmail.com>> wrote:Oh dear gawd. This is possibly the most moronic piece of"journalism" I have ever seen.Are they unaware of the fact that you can go to alock-picking school(actually it teaches you way more), andthat this is just a cheaper version of that? (see:Also, virtually no crime in Oakland involves skilledlock-picking, because it's a waste of time.Don't worry though, you can train in deadly martial arts,go to the shooting range, and buy ninja swords just aboutanywhere in Oakland, but picking a Masterlock is"appalling".-RustyOn Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Anca Mosoiu<anca@techliminal.com <mailto:anca@techliminal.com>> wrote:Hi everyone,Heads up. Looks like some folks aren't too happy thatpeople are learning how to pick locks this weekend.Here is Oakland Local's response:Anca---=-=-=-Anca Mosoiu | Tech Liminalanca@techliminal.com <mailto:anca@techliminal.com>M: (510) 220-6660 <tel:%28510%29%20220-6660>http://techliminal.com | T: @techliminal | F:facebook.com/techliminal <http://facebook.com/techliminal>_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing list--Cheers,Rusty Lindgren**_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing list_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing list_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing list_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing list-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130227/df4f396f/attachment-0001.html>------------------------------Message: 4Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 00:09:43 -0800From: Shawn Lesniak <moderkaka@gmail.com>Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] FUD around Lockpicking classMessage-ID: <512F10C7.3040605@gmail.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"On 2013-02-27 23:52, Anon195714 wrote:Yo's-On the other hand, the Mayor could send along a plain-clothes detectiveto hang out and keep an eye open for known gang members etc. "Just sayHoneypot!", and we're doing the city a favor....Does anyone here have good relations with anyone in Oakland city gov,and want to volunteer to get the lines of communication open?I would be uncomfortable showing up at this event or other sudoroomevents if we were working with the city or law enforcement officers onreporting who shows up at events or assist them in doing so. It is notany more illegal/immoral/wrong for a 'known gang member' to show up at aclass than one of the more privileged class.-Shawn-------------- next part --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: signature.ascType: application/pgp-signatureSize: 946 bytesDesc: OpenPGP digital signatureURL: <http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130228/04885c74/attachment-0001.pgp>------------------------------Message: 5Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 01:13:20 -0800From: Anon195714 <anon195714@sbcglobal.net>To: Shawn Lesniak <moderkaka@gmail.com>Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] FUD around Lockpicking classMessage-ID: <512F1FB0.20607@sbcglobal.net>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"Re. Shawn:In no way am I suggesting that we start "working with the city or lawenforcement officers on reporting who shows up at events or assist themin doing so," any more than the radical Quakers did.What I _am_ advocating is to open the lines of communication and pointout that if the city is truly concerned about badguys showing up, theycan send someone along to hang out and observe for themselves. Whatthey're going to see is a room full of geeks learning an oldschoolmechanical skill. More likely they won't bother, in which case theirobjection can be dismissed as meaningless.(BTW, I've known how to pick locks since my naughty phone phreak days inhighschool, when the word "tweet" was slang for the 2600-Hz "cleartandem" signal, not a friggin' commercial brand for neo-telegramsdressed up as something cutting-edge.)As for comparing "'known gang member'" to "the more privileged class":that's postmodern BS. The #1 killer of young black men in Oakland isn'tpolice bullets but gang bullets. So where are the outraged protests infront of known gang enclaves, eh? This isn't an abstraction: a youngblack man I knew was killed in a drive-by. As for "privileged class,"about 1/3 of SudoRoom members are unemployed, and many areborderline-homeless. A few more "privileges," such as full-time jobsthat pay decent wages, would be a good thing.-G.=====On 13-02-28-Thu 12:09 AM, Shawn Lesniak wrote:On 2013-02-27 23:52, Anon195714 wrote:Yo's-On the other hand, the Mayor could send along a plain-clothes detectiveto hang out and keep an eye open for known gang members etc. "Just sayHoneypot!", and we're doing the city a favor....Does anyone here have good relations with anyone in Oakland city gov,and want to volunteer to get the lines of communication open?I would be uncomfortable showing up at this event or other sudoroomevents if we were working with the city or law enforcement officers onreporting who shows up at events or assist them in doing so. It is notany more illegal/immoral/wrong for a 'known gang member' to show up at aclass than one of the more privileged class.-Shawn_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing list-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130228/3d7b81cb/attachment-0001.html>------------------------------Message: 6Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:31:47 -0800From: Tommy York <tommy.york@gmail.com>To: sudo-discuss <sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>Subject: [sudo-discuss] Membership dues - payment options!Message-ID:<CAMm6+WYjCgxKVFK-yAvNgud36m03=Gqxm9LQ7uT-tFhWbf5DiQ@mail.gmail.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"Hey everyone,Please pay membership dues when you get a chance. I updated the WePaycampaign page, so you can again donate money / pay membership dues (with anew total in the percentage widget covering February actual and projectedMarch), and can collect checks whenever you see me. I live two blocks away,so I'm more than happy to just run over if I'm not getting anything done.At the moment, I'm trying to collect all the payment information, so I candevelop a member list for February. Paying in advance for March is alwaysnice too.I think we'll be starting a sudo-fund - another, separate sub-listserv -soon, which will discuss ideas for funding Sudoroom. Projects, processes,the like.Unrelated, a DJ'd set by one of the founders of Throbbing Gristle:- Tommy-----------------Thomas Riley York (???) 510.926.0510-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130228/1df2a649/attachment-0001.html>------------------------------Message: 7Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 08:13:03 -0800From: Eddan Katz <eddan@clear.net>To: artmurmur@lists.sudoroom.org, sudo-discussSubject: [sudo-discuss] Sudo Room SignageMessage-ID: <D5F4EB2F-20C8-4197-A941-33AD909CB69B@clear.net>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-asciiWe should put up signage for Sudo Room on the Broadway side of the building.We've already asked George about whether it would be OK to put it on the arched awning above the 2141 Broadway door and have the go ahead.Apparently, if we use the same white on blue format, there are no additional costs. Other colored designs would require Sudo room being registered with the city & have to take part in paying for insurance for the building (albeit proportional).Does anyone have the tools necessary to make the stencil? Anyone up for painting over the stencil in the bear future? In fact, if it's trivial to do - might make sense to try and get it done by Art Murmur tomorrow night.sent from eddan.com------------------------------Message: 8Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 08:28:30 -0800From: rusty lindgren <rustylindgren@gmail.com>To: Anthony Di Franco <di.franco@aya.yale.edu>Cc: sudo-discuss <sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] FUD around Lockpicking classMessage-ID:<CADf_g6nFRBP0MqmYT1=ncioPrGtBSX-VDu0gR+oJywPj0KGCQA@mail.gmail.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"Actually, based on their argument it isn't logical at all, because theydon't promote gun education as a bad thing. If they are going to promotethis as bad. How many murders involved skilled gun use?It's totally morally inconsistent, and also is something legal you can doat a professional trade school. Tool teaches a trade and by the logic ofthreat, it's self-defense(i.e. lock-pick forensics, getting better locks,knowing what to look for and all).I honestly can't think of anything more fraudulent in terms of journalismthan this.-RustyOn Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:50 PM, Anthony Di Franco<di.franco@aya.yale.edu>wrote:If you knew how many different break-in methods the OPD recognizes, you'dhave an estimate, then.On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:31 PM, J.D. Zamfirescu <zamfire@gmail.com>wrote:I called the OPD today to get stats on how many break-ins involve pickedlocks. The woman I spoke with was entirely unhelpful, saying somethingalong the lines of "all break-in methods are comparably common".Google searches suggest that ~5-10% of burglaries nationally involvepicked locks.On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:26 PM, Tommy York <tommy.york@gmail.com>wrote:"OAKLAND -- One skill that appears all too common in Oakland these daysis the ability to pick a lock. Burglaries jumped more than 40 percent lastyear, and not all of them involved window smashes."This is a horrific excuse for journalism. Not all burglaries involvedwindow smashes? Oh really? And in that case, how many involved skilled lockpicking?Mencken would be angry.- tommy-----------------Thomas Riley York (???) 510.926.0510On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:20 PM, J.D. Zamfirescu <zamfire@gmail.com>wrote:more:On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:15 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate@gmail.com>wrote:It's awesome, free press!On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 9:40 PM, rusty lindgren <rustylindgren@gmail.com> wrote:Oh dear gawd. This is possibly the most moronic piece of"journalism" I have ever seen.Are they unaware of the fact that you can go to a lock-pickingschool(actually it teaches you way more), and that this is just a cheaperversion of that? (see: http://www.lock411.com/training.html).Also, virtually no crime in Oakland involves skilled lock-picking,because it's a waste of time.Don't worry though, you can train in deadly martial arts, go to theshooting range, and buy ninja swords just about anywhere in Oakland, butpicking a Masterlock is "appalling".-RustyOn Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Anca Mosoiu <anca@techliminal.com>wrote:Hi everyone,Heads up. Looks like some folks aren't too happy that people arelearning how to pick locks this weekend.Here is Oakland Local's response:Anca---=-=-=-Anca Mosoiu | Tech LiminalM: (510) 220-6660http://techliminal.com | T: @techliminal | F:_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing list--Cheers,Rusty Lindgren**_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing list_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing list_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing list_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing list_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing list--Cheers,Rusty Lindgren**-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130228/ac3e5722/attachment-0001.html>------------------------------Message: 9Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 08:30:21 -0800From: rusty lindgren <rustylindgren@gmail.com>To: Anon195714 <anon195714@sbcglobal.net>Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] FUD around Lockpicking classMessage-ID:<CADf_g6=wUHYVTq1=-YB4ojMTdKm=+Ywy0=KMAbsaK_oL+d83QA@mail.gmail.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"+1 for both of you... This is a skilled trade. The police don't show up atlock-smith schools. Just relabel the training skilled trade workshops.Done.On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 1:13 AM, Anon195714 <georgio510@sbcglobal.net>wrote:Re. Shawn:In no way am I suggesting that we start "working with the city or lawenforcement officers on reporting who shows up at events or assist them indoing so," any more than the radical Quakers did.What I _am_ advocating is to open the lines of communication and point outthat if the city is truly concerned about badguys showing up, they can sendsomeone along to hang out and observe for themselves. What they're goingto see is a room full of geeks learning an oldschool mechanical skill.More likely they won't bother, in which case their objection can bedismissed as meaningless.(BTW, I've known how to pick locks since my naughty phone phreak days inhighschool, when the word "tweet" was slang for the 2600-Hz "clear tandem"signal, not a friggin' commercial brand for neo-telegrams dressed up assomething cutting-edge.)As for comparing "'known gang member'" to "the more privileged class":that's postmodern BS. The #1 killer of young black men in Oakland isn'tpolice bullets but gang bullets. So where are the outraged protests infront of known gang enclaves, eh? This isn't an abstraction: a young blackman I knew was killed in a drive-by. As for "privileged class," about 1/3of SudoRoom members are unemployed, and many are borderline-homeless. Afew more "privileges," such as full-time jobs that pay decent wages, wouldbe a good thing.-G.=====On 13-02-28-Thu 12:09 AM, Shawn Lesniak wrote:On 2013-02-27 23:52, Anon195714 wrote:Yo's-On the other hand, the Mayor could send along a plain-clothes detectiveto hang out and keep an eye open for known gang members etc. "Just sayHoneypot!", and we're doing the city a favor....Does anyone here have good relations with anyone in Oakland city gov,and want to volunteer to get the lines of communication open?I would be uncomfortable showing up at this event or other sudoroomevents if we were working with the city or law enforcement officers onreporting who shows up at events or assist them in doing so. It is notany more illegal/immoral/wrong for a 'known gang member' to show up at aclass than one of the more privileged class.-Shawn_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing listsudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.orghttp://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing list--Cheers,Rusty Lindgren**-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130228/2777b50a/attachment-0001.html>------------------------------Message: 10Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 08:35:27 -0800From: hep <dis@gruntle.org>To: Anon195714 <anon195714@sbcglobal.net>Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] FUD around Lockpicking classMessage-ID:Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 1:13 AM, Anon195714 <anon195714@sbcglobal.net>wrote:As for comparing "'known gang member'" to "the more privileged class":that's postmodern BS. The #1 killer of young black men in Oakland isn'tpolice bullets but gang bullets. So where are the outraged protests infront of known gang enclaves, eh? This isn't an abstraction: a young blackman I knew was killed in a drive-by. As for "privileged class," about 1/3of SudoRoom members are unemployed, and many are borderline-homeless. Afew more "privileges," such as full-time jobs that pay decent wages, wouldbe a good thing.What's up sudoroomers? Hugely concerned about all the racist, classist, andprivileged BS that was spouted in this paragraph right here.-hep-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130228/236c18df/attachment-0001.html>------------------------------Message: 11Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 09:40:37 -0800From: Georgio510 <anon195714@sbcglobal.net>To: hep <dis@gruntle.org>Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] FUD around Lockpicking classMessage-ID: <512F9695.4040902@sbcglobal.net>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"Re. Hep:Rather than just sling a sentence-full of unsupported ad-hominems (clue:ad-homs = you lose), how'bout unpacking that nonsense and spelling it out?Assertion: gang violence kills more young black men than police do.That's an assertion of fact. If you don't like it, you're welcome totry to disprove it. Go get some numbers.Question: where are the protests over gang violence? The questionstands. Show us a mass protest at a known gang house after aparticularly egregious shooting.A young black guy I knew was killed in a drive-by. Ever hear of TupacShakur? I was one of his 2nd Engs. at Starlight Studios in Richmond.He was ferociously brilliant. Murdered at age 25."Privileged": about 1/3 of SudoRoom members are unemployed and many areborderline homeless. Admittedly that's a rough estimate. But if youdon't like my numbers, get some better ones.Full-time jobs at decent wages would be a good thing: What don't youlike about that? Gandhi once said "Western civilization would be a goodthing." I say worker solidarity would be a good thing. But you can'thave worker solidarity until people have work. A job at decent wagesisn't a privilege, it's a human right. And hackers picking up moretrade-skills is also a good thing.Let's take this to private email so we don't digress the list.-G.=====On 13-02-28-Thu 8:35 AM, hep wrote:On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 1:13 AM, Anon195714 <anon195714@sbcglobal.net<mailto:anon195714@sbcglobal.net>> wrote:As for comparing "'known gang member'" to "the more privilegedclass": that's postmodern BS. The #1 killer of young black men inOakland isn't police bullets but gang bullets. So where are theoutraged protests in front of known gang enclaves, eh? This isn'tan abstraction: a young black man I knew was killed in adrive-by. As for "privileged class," about 1/3 of SudoRoommembers are unemployed, and many are borderline-homeless. A fewmore "privileges," such as full-time jobs that pay decent wages,would be a good thing.What's up sudoroomers? Hugely concerned about all the racist,classist, and privileged BS that was spouted in this paragraph righthere.-hep-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130228/f53b3e83/attachment.html>------------------------------_______________________________________________sudo-discuss mailing listEnd of sudo-discuss Digest, Vol 4, Issue 206********************************************