I know the person you are talking about, he came by CCL first and dominated the conversation on our side with Kathy (which she didn't seem to mind) she was just being her usual affable self.   It didn't bother me much because I figure people can choose who they want to pay attention to, etc.  I get that he seems a tad self narcissistic, but meh, I could say that about lots of people including probably myself at times.  I'm not dismissing what you saw, I can totally picture it actually, but the idea of not being able to ask someone out at Sudo just seems a tad overkill and a distraction from the nature of the actual problem at hand. 

I like the idea of signage for those not-so-clear, but kind of disturbing, power dynamics.

What would our sign say?  

Somethings like:  

1)  Share. Don't dominate group or interpersonal conversations.

2)  It's ok to tell someone to back the fuck off, buzz off, or better SHARE the conversation, by giving others room to talk or be silent.

3)  If someone doesn't reciprocate in a conversation, don't push further.  Stop to consider the possibility that they are just not that into you, and that's OK.

I like the idea of using memes to quickly move through awkward social situations, as well.  The yellow card seems too overt it a way that I could see it becoming a walk of shame.    If someone says mansplain, pretty much everyone understands what dynamic is being described.  What's a one-word meme for narcissistic clueless pickup artist?  

On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 2:17 AM, Jake <jake@spaz.org> wrote:
Dear Sudoroom,

sorry for streaming mode, i'm not sure how to talk about this.

there's this guy who's been at sudo a few times during hardware hacking tuesdays.  I think his name is Sean but i can't remember for sure now.

he likes talking about his workout routine, and getting rich, and says he's going to invent bio-drones and says he's working on some secret project that's going to show to elon musk and it's going to make him super rich.

well tonight he crossed the line from annoying to unacceptably creepy.

tonight a friend of mine came to sudoroom so we could use the robot to cut holes in these christmas ornaments.  It was a big project that took hours and a lot of focus.  Sean (is that his name?) was on her like glue the entire time, trying to be helpful, talking to her.

It made me uncomfortable, but she's a grownup and can speak for herself, but at the same time the power dynamic and assertiveness imbalance was quite stark and I really wanted to say something.
But i didn't know what to say.

the first time he went away for a minute, which was after what seemed like a long time, i said to my friend "you know, if anyone's bothering you here you can tell them to go away" because i couldn't think of anything better to say.  maybe i should have offered to tell him to go away?  but that would have only parried the problem that one time.

Of course he soon came back.  I think we were both trying to ignore him as best we could, and we did get some good work done thanks to Zack and Fenn, who are great.  But eventually they left and it was just the three of us.

I don't know what other things he said to my friend when i wasn't watching, but I did see him eventually ask her on a date.  She told him no, and then he made it very clear to everyone that he was fine with that and not bothered by it at all, because he's not bothered by anything.

I was super bothered by it.  I wanted to tell him to leave right then, but I really didn't want to talk to him, I just wanted him to go away on his own.  I guess eventually he did.

I want two things.  I want Sudoroom to ask this person to take a break from the space so that he can study up on our anti-harrassment policy and maybe write us an essay about why it's unacceptable to mack on people in sudoroom.

and I also want us to look into how we can make it clearer to people like him, and to his targets, that sudoroom is expressly a safe place from this kind of behavior.  I would like for there to be a sign that I can point to in moments like that, so that I don't have to try to say it with my own words, in front of other people.

it's a complex issue, because if someone is being talkative and helpful they're not necessarily doing it as a creep move, so how do you know where to draw the line?  We can remind people to check their own intentions, but maybe we need more ways for people who feel uncomfortable to get relief from unwanted attention without having to then engage the person in Lesson 101 right then.

maybe we need yellow cards?  to hand to people that say "please go to the fridge and read the entire sign reminding you about proper behavior in sudoroom.  Do not ask any more questions of the person who gave you this card, they have other things they want to do now.  thank you."

Noisebridge seems to have a great vibe, at least the other night when I was there, Zach explained to one of our friends why it would be inappropriate to "ask someone out" at Noisebridge.  I'm not sure how their anti-harrassment policy differs from ours, or what we could learn from it, but I would like for us to be more out-in-front of this issue so it doesn't come up anymore without being addressed.

thanks for reading this, let's figure this out.

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