(Private response from dan included below)

I am not suggesting here that the goal is to neutralize the voice, but to obfuscate its meaning, to nearby microphones. If there are many sounds fitting the pattern of the user's voice, then perhaps the technology mr. Howell mentions would have a harder time 'hearing' the conversation's actual content in a useful way?  Our brains are excellent at pattern recognition & targeted focus, and I guess I am positing here that the gap between their ability to do this, and the software's, is big enough to use.

I'm less concerned about establishing completely secure encrypted special-use channels (eg redphone), but more am idly thinking about ways to increase security for day-to-day interactions (redCafe???) ...like doing harm reduction.

My experience with activism in our modern surveillance state is that, while a small group can be trained to be truly information secure, this is only really possible for specific highly covert projects, and it generates behavior anomalous enough to be its own red flag. Generally speaking you have to interact with people in their terms, in public or 'normal' ways, to reach them.  The conversations I expect people will be crucified for are not the truly secret ones.

Running a device like this in cafes would be a hilarious way to do outreach about Big Brother.  Many people have no idea of the extent of what is already possible.

R.

On Mar 5, 2013 11:47 AM, "Daniel Finlay" <namelessdan@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> To truly neutralize a sound the inverted copy of the sound needs to be perfectly lined up with the original sound in relation to the target microphone.  (It's impractical for general use.  Besides, if it worked the way you're imagining, we wouldn't be able to hear each other)
>
>
> On Mar 5, 2013, at 11:34 AM, rachel lyra hospodar <rachelyra@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> What if everyone carried a device that captured what they were saying and replayed it, layered along with other recordings of their own voice?
>>
>> Or we could hold all of our meetings without devices, in the fields and mountains, with birdsong our walls and the sky as our roof.
>>
>> On Mar 5, 2013 11:22 AM, "Matthew D. Howell" <matthewdhowell@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> @Rachel The state of the technology for recognizing and separating
>>> patterns in audio is advanced enough to overcome that sort of thing.
>>> Every person's voice has a distinct signature that can be recognized.
>>> I would venture a guess that some kind of encrypted digital signal
>>> transmission would be the best way to keep any sonic communication
>>> private in the most extreme of situations. (most interested party with
>>> the best technology at their disposal)
>>> – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – >8
>>> /V\ /-\ + +  |–| ø \/\/ ∂ £ £
>>> –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
>>> Matthew D. Howell
>>> misterinterrupt, tHe M4d swiTcH, the RuinMechanic
>>> cell: (617) 755-1481
>>> –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 11:16 AM, rachel lyra hospodar
>>> <rachelyra@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Wouldn't it need to be non-commercially available music, so they couldn't
>>> > just find the audio data of the track, invert its wave, and cancel it out of
>>> > the recording?
>>> >
>>> > CACOPHONY FOR THE REVOLUTION!
>>> >
>>> > mediumreality.com
>>> >
>>> > On Mar 5, 2013 10:23 AM, "Steve Berl" <steveberl@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> You could carry a boombox around playing loud music where ever you go.
>>> >> Perhaps this would be the end of earbuds. :-)
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Anthony Di Franco <di.franco@gmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> People have rendered surveillance cameras useless with very bright IR
>>> >>> LEDs in their fields of view.
>>> >>> Could something similar be done for sound recording devices?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Mar 5, 2013 6:17 AM, "Anon195714" <anon195714@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Yo's-
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Something I forgot to add re. DARPA's desire for universal recording of
>>> >>>> face-to-face conversations.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> What's the ideal device for doing all that recording?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> How'bout something you wear?  How'bout something that "everyone" wears?,
>>> >>>> or even a significant fraction of "everyone"?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Like maybe Google Glasses.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Always on, camera and mic always "connected" to "the cloud."  Orwell's
>>> >>>> telescreen gone mobile.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Everyone who wears them will become, in effect, _unpaid surveillance
>>> >>>> drones_ watching their family and friends, not from up in the sky, but
>>> >>>> from up close where every word can be heard.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Some will say "oh, there's no stopping technology." People said that
>>> >>>> about the atomic bomb and the hydrogen bomb.  But public outcry led
>>> >>>> first to treaties and then to progressive degrees of nuclear
>>> >>>> disarmament.  We haven't used that technology since it was first used in
>>> >>>> WW2.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> We can stop pernicious tech if we choose.  We can refuse, we can
>>> >>>> withdraw consent, we do not have to press the Buy button.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Technology should liberate and empower people.  "Conveniences with a few
>>> >>>> strings attached" are not liberation, they're puppet-strings.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> It's all about control: technology that you can control, vs. technology
>>> >>>> that can control you.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> -G.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> =====
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On 13-03-05-Tue 1:50 AM, Anon195714 wrote:
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Yo's-
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > This just in:
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > "DARPA wants to make [voice recognition/transcription] systems so
>>> >>>> > accurate, you’ll be able to easily record, transcribe and recall all
>>> >>>> > the
>>> >>>> > conversations you ever have. ... Imagine living in a world where every
>>> >>>> > errant utterance you make is preserved forever. ... DARPA [awarded
>>> >>>> > U.Texas comp sci researcher Matt Lease]... $300,000... over two years
>>> >>>> > to
>>> >>>> > study the new project, called “Blending Crowdsourcing with Automation
>>> >>>> > for Fast, Cheap, and Accurate Analysis of Spontaneous Speech.”"
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > "The idea is that business meetings or even conversations with your
>>> >>>> > friends and family could be stored in archives and easily searched.
>>> >>>> > The
>>> >>>> > stored recordings could be held in servers, owned either by
>>> >>>> > individuals
>>> >>>> > or their employers. ... The answer, Lease says, is in widespread use
>>> >>>> > of
>>> >>>> > recording technologies like smartphones, cameras and audio
>>> >>>> > recorders...
>>> >>>> > [A] memorandum from the Congressional Research Service described [an
>>> >>>> > earlier DARPA project of this type known as] EARS, as focusing on
>>> >>>> > speech
>>> >>>> > picked up from broadcasts and telephone conversations, “as well as
>>> >>>> > extract clues about the identity of speakers” for “the military,
>>> >>>> > intelligence and law enforcement communities.”"
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/03/darpa-speech/ (Yes, "real
>>> >>>> > geeks
>>> >>>> > don't read Wired," but nonetheless its news pages are useful for
>>> >>>> > keeping
>>> >>>> > a finger on the pulse of Big Brother and his corporate Brethren.)
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > In short:
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > DARPA is researching the means by which every conversation you have,
>>> >>>> > in-person, whether at work or with family or friends, gets picked up
>>> >>>> > by
>>> >>>> > the mic in your smartphone or other portable device, and stored on a
>>> >>>> > server, where DARPA's algorithms and human editors turn all of it into
>>> >>>> > fast-searchable text, that could be used by your employer, the
>>> >>>> > military,
>>> >>>> > law enforcement, and intel agencies. Presumably the credit bureaus,
>>> >>>> > insurance companies, and financial institutions will want "in" on the
>>> >>>> > data as well.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Now connect that with this, about cell-site tracking and call detail
>>> >>>> > records:
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > "The government maintained [that] Americans have no expectation of
>>> >>>> > privacy of such cell-site records [call detail records or CDR] because
>>> >>>> > they are in the possession of a third party — the mobile phone
>>> >>>> > companies."
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/03/gps-drug-dealer-retrial/
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > The key point is that the gov's current position is that data stored
>>> >>>> > on
>>> >>>> > a third party's servers have "no expectation of privacy." What begins
>>> >>>> > with CDR will eventually include voicemail messages stored on the
>>> >>>> > mobile
>>> >>>> > phone companies' servers, and then eventually all of your live
>>> >>>> > in-person
>>> >>>> > conversations that are stored "in the cloud."
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > "Anything you say can and will be used against you..." Mark my words.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Meanwhile people keep using gmail and Google Voice, and smartphones
>>> >>>> > from
>>> >>>> > which they can't remove the batteries. Because nothing is more
>>> >>>> > important
>>> >>>> > than "convenience," right?
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > As a character in a sci-fi piece I wrote in the mid-1980s said, "Why
>>> >>>> > put
>>> >>>> > a person in prison, when you can put prison in the person instead?"
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > -G.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> > sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> >>>> > sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
>>> >>>> > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> >>>> sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
>>> >>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
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>>> >>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> -steve
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> >> sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
>>> >> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>> > sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
>>> > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>> >
>>
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