14 May
2014
14 May
'14
9:15 p.m.
These are the proposed changes brought up at the current sudo room meeting.
We will attempt to consense on this at the sudo room meeting on Wednesday
the 21st of May at 7 pm in sudo room.
===Section 2.1 Qualifications for Membership===
[...]
* Successfully completing the process for becoming a member, below:
====Section 2.1.0 Process for becoming a member====
#'''Declaration of Intent to Join'''
#* To become a member, a person must submit a brief written or spoken
"Declaration
of Intent to Join" where they answer the following questions:
#** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
#** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
#** What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?
#** What are you excited about sharing with sudo room?
#'''Initial Pondering'''
#* It is only possible to become a member at the weekly sudo room meeting.
Prospective members should attend if possible but can submit a written
declaration if they are not able to attend in person.
#* At the sudo room weekly meeting, every prospective member must leave the
room while the existing members have a chance to bring up any concerns or
reasons why the prospective member(s) should not be allowed membership
(referred to as the "Initial Pondering").
#** The intent is for it to be very easy for new members to join, so only
very serious concerns should be brought up.
#** If any existing member objects to a prospective new member becoming a
member, and this cannot be resolved through discussion, then the
prospective member will not be allowed membership.
#** Unreasonable or frequent blocking of new members by an existing member
is grounds for immediate termination of membership based on a 2/3 vote.
#* Upon completing the "Initial Pondering", such prospective members must
be communicated to the sudo room mailing list within 24 hours, including
their "Declaration of Intent to Join".
#'''Extended Pondering'''
#* After the Initial Pondering, if there are no objections, there will be
one week for sudo room members to raise objections as to why the
prospective member should not be allowed to join (referred to as the
"Extended Pondering").
#* If there are no objections raised during the "Extended Pondering",
the prospective
member will become a member.
#** The intention is to provide sufficient time to ensure all concerns of
those unable to attend the meeting may be heard.
#* The new member will be added to the membership list and given access to
desired and relevant assets and services of sudo room.
#* No announcement of this change of status after the "Extended
Pondering"is necessary
.
14 May
14 May
9:30 p.m.
#* It is only possible to become a member at the weekly sudo room meeting.
Prospective members should attend if possible but can submit a written
declaration if they are not able to attend in person.
Given we live in a Hangouts/Skype/FaceTime kind of universe, shouldn't we
leave open the potential to join and participate remotely? We already
permit people to join asynchronously in absentia; why not synchronously in
absentia?
--
Phil Wolff
pwolff(a)gmail.com
skype:evanwolf
+1-510-343-5664
http://about.me/evanwolf bio
<http://letmydatago.org/>http://twitter.com/evanwolf @
http://www.linkedin.com/in/philwolff cv
http://LetMyDataGo.org blog
http://www.facebook.com/philwolff face
9:38 p.m.
thanks and apologies that i haven't had a chance to be a part of this
discussion until now. i have a few questions:
- re: "What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?" & "What are
you
excited about sharing with sudo room?" i wonder what effect seeing these
questions on the application would have for someone who's really new to the
world of hacking and/or someone who might not identify as a hacker (ie,
someone who would consider themselves a "beginner" or "just learning"
- as
many of our members, including myself, do). like if you're not sure what
you're interested on hacking...or if you're not sure what you have to share
with sudo room. is anyone else concerned that these questions might be
intimidating to newcomers? (i ask this genuinely). also, what happens if a
prospective member puts on their application "i don't know" or "i'm
not
sure" for these questions? would that affect their application?
this leads to my second question:
Under "initial pondering" it says "#** The intent is for it to be very
easy
for new members to join, so only very serious concerns should be brought
up." what would a "serious concern" be? also there isn't really any
indication like..what the yes/no on a person's membership request is based
on. does the content of what people put in their application matter?
finally, what do folks think is gained by the hacking & sharing q's? do you
think that you wouldn't get enough information from "what is your
pseudonym/name" and "why do you want to be a member of sudo room?"
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Marc Juul <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
These are the proposed changes brought up at the
current sudo room
meeting. We will attempt to consense on this at the sudo room meeting on
Wednesday the 21st of May at 7 pm in sudo room.
===Section 2.1 Qualifications for Membership===
[...]
* Successfully completing the process for becoming a member, below:
====Section 2.1.0 Process for becoming a member====
#'''Declaration of Intent to Join'''
#* To become a member, a person must submit a brief written or spoken "Declaration
of Intent to Join" where they answer the following questions:
#** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
#** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
#** What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?
#** What are you excited about sharing with sudo room?
#'''Initial Pondering'''
#* It is only possible to become a member at the weekly sudo room
meeting. Prospective members should attend if possible but can submit a
written declaration if they are not able to attend in person.
#* At the sudo room weekly meeting, every prospective member must leave
the room while the existing members have a chance to bring up any concerns
or reasons why the prospective member(s) should not be allowed membership
(referred to as the "Initial Pondering").
#** The intent is for it to be very easy for new members to join, so only
very serious concerns should be brought up.
#** If any existing member objects to a prospective new member becoming a
member, and this cannot be resolved through discussion, then the
prospective member will not be allowed membership.
#** Unreasonable or frequent blocking of new members by an existing
member is grounds for immediate termination of membership based on a 2/3
vote.
#* Upon completing the "Initial Pondering", such prospective members
must be communicated to the sudo room mailing list within 24 hours,
including their "Declaration of Intent to Join".
#'''Extended Pondering'''
#* After the Initial Pondering, if there are no objections, there will be
one week for sudo room members to raise objections as to why the
prospective member should not be allowed to join (referred to as the
"Extended Pondering").
#* If there are no objections raised during the "Extended Pondering", the
prospective
member will become a member.
#** The intention is to provide sufficient time to ensure all concerns of
those unable to attend the meeting may be heard.
#* The new member will be added to the membership list and given access to
desired and relevant assets and services of sudo room.
#* No announcement of this change of status after the "Extended Pondering"is
necessary
.
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
11:10 p.m.
Phil,
I think nothing in this policy *prevents *tele-presence, in fact, I think
it would be prudent for a prospective member to, at the very least, offer
to attend the meeting virtually if they cannot be physically present.
Either way, the only requirement is the prospective member submits
something concrete, in writing (format unspecified, so digital text seems
fine).
Marina,
I have no strong feelings about the exact phrasing, I think those questions
were carried over from Jake's original(ish) proposal, maybe? Marc, do you
know where those questions came from?
I do like the idea of asking questions to get three kinds of responses:
1. A response about why they are interested, leaving the opportunity for
setting some context to joining.
2. A response about what specifically they want to do (commonly folks have
particular projects or uses in mind as they get involved with sudo)
2. A response about specifically how they see themselves contributing to
the community, as giving some sort contribution *is* an expectation, but
extremely open / liberal. I think "share" is a great term to express this.
I have no reason to think we should hang on to the question about "hacking"
in particular, maybe alternatives:
#** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
#** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
#** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to do at
sudo room?
#** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to share
with the sudo room community?
That being said, I'd also be happy with the truncated version:
#** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
#** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
// Matt
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
thanks and apologies that i haven't had a chance
to be a part of this
discussion until now. i have a few questions:
- re: "What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?" & "What are
you
excited about sharing with sudo room?" i wonder what effect seeing these
questions on the application would have for someone who's really new to the
world of hacking and/or someone who might not identify as a hacker (ie,
someone who would consider themselves a "beginner" or "just learning"
- as
many of our members, including myself, do). like if you're not sure what
you're interested on hacking...or if you're not sure what you have to share
with sudo room. is anyone else concerned that these questions might be
intimidating to newcomers? (i ask this genuinely). also, what happens if a
prospective member puts on their application "i don't know" or
"i'm not
sure" for these questions? would that affect their application?
this leads to my second question:
Under "initial pondering" it says "#** The intent is for it to be very
easy for new members to join, so only very serious concerns should be
brought up." what would a "serious concern" be? also there isn't
really any
indication like..what the yes/no on a person's membership request is based
on. does the content of what people put in their application matter?
finally, what do folks think is gained by the hacking & sharing q's? do
you think that you wouldn't get enough information from "what is your
pseudonym/name" and "why do you want to be a member of sudo room?"
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Marc Juul <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
These are the proposed changes brought up at the
current sudo room
meeting. We will attempt to consense on this at the sudo room meeting on
Wednesday the 21st of May at 7 pm in sudo room.
===Section 2.1 Qualifications for Membership===
[...]
* Successfully completing the process for becoming a member, below:
====Section 2.1.0 Process for becoming a member====
#'''Declaration of Intent to Join'''
#* To become a member, a person must submit a brief written or spoken "Declaration
of Intent to Join" where they answer the following questions:
#** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
#** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
#** What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?
#** What are you excited about sharing with sudo room?
#'''Initial Pondering'''
#* It is only possible to become a member at the weekly sudo room
meeting. Prospective members should attend if possible but can submit a
written declaration if they are not able to attend in person.
#* At the sudo room weekly meeting, every prospective member must leave
the room while the existing members have a chance to bring up any concerns
or reasons why the prospective member(s) should not be allowed
membership (referred to as the "Initial Pondering").
#** The intent is for it to be very easy for new members to join, so
only very serious concerns should be brought up.
#** If any existing member objects to a prospective new member becoming
a member, and this cannot be resolved through discussion, then the
prospective member will not be allowed membership.
#** Unreasonable or frequent blocking of new members by an existing
member is grounds for immediate termination of membership based on a 2/3
vote.
#* Upon completing the "Initial Pondering", such prospective members
must be communicated to the sudo room mailing list within 24 hours,
including their "Declaration of Intent to Join".
#'''Extended Pondering'''
#* After the Initial Pondering, if there are no objections, there will
be one week for sudo room members to raise objections as to why the
prospective member should not be allowed to join (referred to as the
"Extended Pondering").
#* If there are no objections raised during the "Extended Pondering", the
prospective member will become a member.
#** The intention is to provide sufficient time to ensure all concerns of
those unable to attend the meeting may be heard.
#* The new member will be added to the membership list and given access
to desired and relevant assets and services of sudo room.
#* No announcement of this change of status after the "Extended
Pondering" is necessary.
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
11:15 p.m.
thanks matt. i like both of the changed wordings that you've suggested. i'd
be happy with either version.
still wondering about the second issue - what "serious issues" might be and
what the criteria are that the group would vote people up or down on.
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:10 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
Phil,
I think nothing in this policy *prevents *tele-presence, in fact, I think
it would be prudent for a prospective member to, at the very least, offer
to attend the meeting virtually if they cannot be physically present.
Either way, the only requirement is the prospective member submits
something concrete, in writing (format unspecified, so digital text seems
fine).
Marina,
I have no strong feelings about the exact phrasing, I think those
questions were carried over from Jake's original(ish) proposal, maybe?
Marc, do you know where those questions came from?
I do like the idea of asking questions to get three kinds of responses:
1. A response about why they are interested, leaving the opportunity for
setting some context to joining.
2. A response about what specifically they want to do (commonly folks have
particular projects or uses in mind as they get involved with sudo)
2. A response about specifically how they see themselves contributing to
the community, as giving some sort contribution *is* an expectation, but
extremely open / liberal. I think "share" is a great term to express this.
I have no reason to think we should hang on to the question about
"hacking" in particular, maybe alternatives:
#** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
#** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
#** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to do at
sudo room?
#** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to share
with the sudo room community?
That being said, I'd also be happy with the truncated version:
#** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
#** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
// Matt
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
thanks and apologies that i haven't had a
chance to be a part of this
discussion until now. i have a few questions:
- re: "What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?" & "What are
you
excited about sharing with sudo room?" i wonder what effect seeing these
questions on the application would have for someone who's really new to the
world of hacking and/or someone who might not identify as a hacker (ie,
someone who would consider themselves a "beginner" or "just learning"
- as
many of our members, including myself, do). like if you're not sure what
you're interested on hacking...or if you're not sure what you have to share
with sudo room. is anyone else concerned that these questions might be
intimidating to newcomers? (i ask this genuinely). also, what happens if a
prospective member puts on their application "i don't know" or
"i'm not
sure" for these questions? would that affect their application?
this leads to my second question:
Under "initial pondering" it says "#** The intent is for it to be very
easy for new members to join, so only very serious concerns should be
brought up." what would a "serious concern" be? also there isn't
really any
indication like..what the yes/no on a person's membership request is based
on. does the content of what people put in their application matter?
finally, what do folks think is gained by the hacking & sharing q's? do
you think that you wouldn't get enough information from "what is your
pseudonym/name" and "why do you want to be a member of sudo room?"
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Marc Juul <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
These are the proposed changes brought up at the
current sudo room
meeting. We will attempt to consense on this at the sudo room meeting on
Wednesday the 21st of May at 7 pm in sudo room.
===Section 2.1 Qualifications for Membership===
[...]
* Successfully completing the process for becoming a member, below:
====Section 2.1.0 Process for becoming a member====
#'''Declaration of Intent to Join'''
#* To become a member, a person must submit a brief written or spoken "Declaration
of Intent to Join" where they answer the following questions:
#** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
#** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
#** What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?
#** What are you excited about sharing with sudo room?
#'''Initial Pondering'''
#* It is only possible to become a member at the weekly sudo room
meeting. Prospective members should attend if possible but can submit a
written declaration if they are not able to attend in person.
#* At the sudo room weekly meeting, every prospective member must leave
the room while the existing members have a chance to bring up any concerns
or reasons why the prospective member(s) should not be allowed
membership (referred to as the "Initial Pondering").
#** The intent is for it to be very easy for new members to join, so
only very serious concerns should be brought up.
#** If any existing member objects to a prospective new member becoming
a member, and this cannot be resolved through discussion, then the
prospective member will not be allowed membership.
#** Unreasonable or frequent blocking of new members by an existing
member is grounds for immediate termination of membership based on a 2/3
vote.
#* Upon completing the "Initial Pondering", such prospective members
must be communicated to the sudo room mailing list within 24 hours,
including their "Declaration of Intent to Join".
#'''Extended Pondering'''
#* After the Initial Pondering, if there are no objections, there will
be one week for sudo room members to raise objections as to why the
prospective member should not be allowed to join (referred to as the
"Extended Pondering").
#* If there are no objections raised during the "Extended Pondering", the
prospective member will become a member.
#** The intention is to provide sufficient time to ensure all concerns
of those unable to attend the meeting may be heard.
#* The new member will be added to the membership list and given access
to desired and relevant assets and services of sudo room.
#* No announcement of this change of status after the "Extended
Pondering" is necessary.
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
11:22 p.m.
ah yes, I think the idea for that was to generally side on not specifying
too narrowly, but instead to use "human judgment over automation and
efficiency" and cultural protocol to navigate it. I think "serious issues"
is a metric we are giving to future sudo room members in order for them to
weigh heavily whether some issue that potentially prevents a member from
joining is in fact of a "serious" nature. I'm of the disposition this means
something that conflicts directly with sudo room's values and the articles
of association.
I actually think this process could be fairly easy to go through that
doesn't need to be very intimidating. At the meeting tonight, everyone was
in favor of putting time into implementing a better experience for new
members so that this policy is clearly outlined and available in multiple
formats (paper, on the website, etc)
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
thanks matt. i like both of the changed wordings that
you've suggested.
i'd be happy with either version.
still wondering about the second issue - what "serious issues" might be
and what the criteria are that the group would vote people up or down on.
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:10 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
Phil,
I think nothing in this policy *prevents *tele-presence, in fact, I
think it would be prudent for a prospective member to, at the very least,
offer to attend the meeting virtually if they cannot be physically present.
Either way, the only requirement is the prospective member submits
something concrete, in writing (format unspecified, so digital text seems
fine).
Marina,
I have no strong feelings about the exact phrasing, I think those
questions were carried over from Jake's original(ish) proposal, maybe?
Marc, do you know where those questions came from?
I do like the idea of asking questions to get three kinds of responses:
1. A response about why they are interested, leaving the opportunity for
setting some context to joining.
2. A response about what specifically they want to do (commonly folks
have particular projects or uses in mind as they get involved with sudo)
2. A response about specifically how they see themselves contributing to
the community, as giving some sort contribution *is* an expectation, but
extremely open / liberal. I think "share" is a great term to express this.
I have no reason to think we should hang on to the question about
"hacking" in particular, maybe alternatives:
#** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
#** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
#** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to do at
sudo room?
#** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to share
with the sudo room community?
That being said, I'd also be happy with the truncated version:
#** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
#** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
// Matt
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
thanks and apologies that i haven't had a
chance to be a part of this
discussion until now. i have a few questions:
- re: "What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?" & "What are
you excited about sharing with sudo room?" i wonder what effect seeing
these questions on the application would have for someone who's really new
to the world of hacking and/or someone who might not identify as a hacker
(ie, someone who would consider themselves a "beginner" or "just
learning"
- as many of our members, including myself, do). like if you're not sure
what you're interested on hacking...or if you're not sure what you have to
share with sudo room. is anyone else concerned that these questions might
be intimidating to newcomers? (i ask this genuinely). also, what happens if
a prospective member puts on their application "i don't know" or
"i'm not
sure" for these questions? would that affect their application?
this leads to my second question:
Under "initial pondering" it says "#** The intent is for it to be very
easy for new members to join, so only very serious concerns should be
brought up." what would a "serious concern" be? also there isn't
really any
indication like..what the yes/no on a person's membership request is based
on. does the content of what people put in their application matter?
finally, what do folks think is gained by the hacking & sharing q's? do
you think that you wouldn't get enough information from "what is your
pseudonym/name" and "why do you want to be a member of sudo room?"
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Marc Juul <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
These are the proposed changes brought up at the
current sudo room
meeting. We will attempt to consense on this at the sudo room meeting on
Wednesday the 21st of May at 7 pm in sudo room.
===Section 2.1 Qualifications for Membership===
[...]
* Successfully completing the process for becoming a member, below:
====Section 2.1.0 Process for becoming a member====
#'''Declaration of Intent to Join'''
#* To become a member, a person must submit a brief written or spoken "Declaration
of Intent to Join" where they answer the following questions:
#** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
#** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
#** What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?
#** What are you excited about sharing with sudo room?
#'''Initial Pondering'''
#* It is only possible to become a member at the weekly sudo room
meeting. Prospective members should attend if possible but can submit a
written declaration if they are not able to attend in person.
#* At the sudo room weekly meeting, every prospective member must
leave the room while the existing members have a chance to bring up any
concerns or reasons why the prospective member(s) should not be
allowed membership (referred to as the "Initial Pondering").
#** The intent is for it to be very easy for new members to join, so
only very serious concerns should be brought up.
#** If any existing member objects to a prospective new member
becoming a member, and this cannot be resolved through discussion, then the
prospective member will not be allowed membership.
#** Unreasonable or frequent blocking of new members by an existing
member is grounds for immediate termination of membership based on a 2/3
vote.
#* Upon completing the "Initial Pondering", such prospective members
must be communicated to the sudo room mailing list within 24 hours,
including their "Declaration of Intent to Join".
#'''Extended Pondering'''
#* After the Initial Pondering, if there are no objections, there will
be one week for sudo room members to raise objections as to why the
prospective member should not be allowed to join (referred to as the
"Extended Pondering").
#* If there are no objections raised during the "Extended Pondering", the
prospective member will become a member.
#** The intention is to provide sufficient time to ensure all concerns
of those unable to attend the meeting may be heard.
#* The new member will be added to the membership list and given access
to desired and relevant assets and services of sudo room.
#* No announcement of this change of status after the "Extended
Pondering" is necessary.
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
11:48 p.m.
sounds good. something that might help in documentation is an explicit
message on the application form (or wherever) that "membership is typically
granted barring some serious circumstances or reservations and that you
shouldn't take the application questions extremely seriously because you're
worried it might hurt your chances of being accepted - just feel free to be
honest." that wording's not very good, but i think you get the idea.
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:22 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
ah yes, I think the idea for that was to generally
side on not specifying
too narrowly, but instead to use "human judgment over automation and
efficiency" and cultural protocol to navigate it. I think "serious
issues"
is a metric we are giving to future sudo room members in order for them to
weigh heavily whether some issue that potentially prevents a member from
joining is in fact of a "serious" nature. I'm of the disposition this
means
something that conflicts directly with sudo room's values and the articles
of association.
I actually think this process could be fairly easy to go through that
doesn't need to be very intimidating. At the meeting tonight, everyone was
in favor of putting time into implementing a better experience for new
members so that this policy is clearly outlined and available in multiple
formats (paper, on the website, etc)
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
thanks matt. i like both of the changed wordings
that you've suggested.
i'd be happy with either version.
still wondering about the second issue - what "serious issues" might be
and what the criteria are that the group would vote people up or down on.
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:10 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
Phil,
I think nothing in this policy *prevents *tele-presence, in fact, I
think it would be prudent for a prospective member to, at the very least,
offer to attend the meeting virtually if they cannot be physically present.
Either way, the only requirement is the prospective member submits
something concrete, in writing (format unspecified, so digital text seems
fine).
Marina,
I have no strong feelings about the exact phrasing, I think those
questions were carried over from Jake's original(ish) proposal, maybe?
Marc, do you know where those questions came from?
I do like the idea of asking questions to get three kinds of responses:
1. A response about why they are interested, leaving the opportunity for
setting some context to joining.
2. A response about what specifically they want to do (commonly folks
have particular projects or uses in mind as they get involved with sudo)
2. A response about specifically how they see themselves contributing to
the community, as giving some sort contribution *is* an expectation,
but extremely open / liberal. I think "share" is a great term to express
this.
I have no reason to think we should hang on to the question about
"hacking" in particular, maybe alternatives:
#** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
#** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
#** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to do at
sudo room?
#** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to share
with the sudo room community?
That being said, I'd also be happy with the truncated version:
#** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
#** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
// Matt
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
thanks and apologies that i haven't had a
chance to be a part of this
discussion until now. i have a few questions:
- re: "What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?" & "What are
you excited about sharing with sudo room?" i wonder what effect seeing
these questions on the application would have for someone who's really new
to the world of hacking and/or someone who might not identify as a hacker
(ie, someone who would consider themselves a "beginner" or "just
learning"
- as many of our members, including myself, do). like if you're not sure
what you're interested on hacking...or if you're not sure what you have to
share with sudo room. is anyone else concerned that these questions might
be intimidating to newcomers? (i ask this genuinely). also, what happens if
a prospective member puts on their application "i don't know" or
"i'm not
sure" for these questions? would that affect their application?
this leads to my second question:
Under "initial pondering" it says "#** The intent is for it to be very
easy for new members to join, so only very serious concerns should be
brought up." what would a "serious concern" be? also there isn't
really any
indication like..what the yes/no on a person's membership request is based
on. does the content of what people put in their application matter?
finally, what do folks think is gained by the hacking & sharing q's? do
you think that you wouldn't get enough information from "what is your
pseudonym/name" and "why do you want to be a member of sudo room?"
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Marc Juul <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
> These are the proposed changes brought up at the current sudo room
> meeting. We will attempt to consense on this at the sudo room meeting on
> Wednesday the 21st of May at 7 pm in sudo room.
>
> ===Section 2.1 Qualifications for Membership===
>
> [...]
>
> * Successfully completing the process for becoming a member, below:
>
> ====Section 2.1.0 Process for becoming a member====
>
> #'''Declaration of Intent to Join'''
> #* To become a member, a person must submit a brief written or spoken
> "Declaration of Intent to Join" where they answer the following
> questions:
> #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
> #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
> #** What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?
> #** What are you excited about sharing with sudo room?
> #'''Initial Pondering'''
> #* It is only possible to become a member at the weekly sudo room
> meeting. Prospective members should attend if possible but can submit a
> written declaration if they are not able to attend in person.
> #* At the sudo room weekly meeting, every prospective member must
> leave the room while the existing members have a chance to bring up any
> concerns or reasons why the prospective member(s) should not be
> allowed membership (referred to as the "Initial Pondering").
> #** The intent is for it to be very easy for new members to join, so
> only very serious concerns should be brought up.
> #** If any existing member objects to a prospective new member
> becoming a member, and this cannot be resolved through discussion, then the
> prospective member will not be allowed membership.
> #** Unreasonable or frequent blocking of new members by an existing
> member is grounds for immediate termination of membership based on a 2/3
> vote.
> #* Upon completing the "Initial Pondering", such prospective members
> must be communicated to the sudo room mailing list within 24 hours,
> including their "Declaration of Intent to Join".
> #'''Extended Pondering'''
> #* After the Initial Pondering, if there are no objections, there
> will be one week for sudo room members to raise objections as to why the
> prospective member should not be allowed to join (referred to as the
> "Extended Pondering").
> #* If there are no objections raised during the "Extended Pondering", the
> prospective member will become a member.
> #** The intention is to provide sufficient time to ensure all concerns
> of those unable to attend the meeting may be heard.
> #* The new member will be added to the membership list and given
> access to desired and relevant assets and services of sudo room.
> #* No announcement of this change of status after the "Extended
> Pondering" is necessary.
>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
15 May
15 May
12:01 a.m.
How about a nap pass?
On May 14, 2014 11:48 PM, "Marina Kukso" <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com> wrote:
sounds good. something that might help in
documentation is an explicit
message on the application form (or wherever) that "membership is typically
granted barring some serious circumstances or reservations and that you
shouldn't take the application questions extremely seriously because you're
worried it might hurt your chances of being accepted - just feel free to be
honest." that wording's not very good, but i think you get the idea.
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:22 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
ah yes, I think the idea for that was to
generally side on not specifying
too narrowly, but instead to use "human judgment over automation and
efficiency" and cultural protocol to navigate it. I think "serious
issues"
is a metric we are giving to future sudo room members in order for them to
weigh heavily whether some issue that potentially prevents a member from
joining is in fact of a "serious" nature. I'm of the disposition this
means
something that conflicts directly with sudo room's values and the articles
of association.
I actually think this process could be fairly easy to go through that
doesn't need to be very intimidating. At the meeting tonight, everyone was
in favor of putting time into implementing a better experience for new
members so that this policy is clearly outlined and available in multiple
formats (paper, on the website, etc)
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
thanks matt. i like both of the changed wordings
that you've suggested.
i'd be happy with either version.
still wondering about the second issue - what "serious issues" might be
and what the criteria are that the group would vote people up or down on.
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:10 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
Phil,
I think nothing in this policy *prevents *tele-presence, in fact, I
think it would be prudent for a prospective member to, at the very least,
offer to attend the meeting virtually if they cannot be physically present.
Either way, the only requirement is the prospective member submits
something concrete, in writing (format unspecified, so digital text seems
fine).
Marina,
I have no strong feelings about the exact phrasing, I think those
questions were carried over from Jake's original(ish) proposal, maybe?
Marc, do you know where those questions came from?
I do like the idea of asking questions to get three kinds of responses:
1. A response about why they are interested, leaving the opportunity
for setting some context to joining.
2. A response about what specifically they want to do (commonly folks
have particular projects or uses in mind as they get involved with sudo)
2. A response about specifically how they see themselves contributing
to the community, as giving some sort contribution *is* an
expectation, but extremely open / liberal. I think "share" is a great term
to express this.
I have no reason to think we should hang on to the question about
"hacking" in particular, maybe alternatives:
#** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
#** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
#** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to do
at sudo room?
#** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to
share with the sudo room community?
That being said, I'd also be happy with the truncated version:
#** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
#** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
// Matt
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
> thanks and apologies that i haven't had a chance to be a part of this
> discussion until now. i have a few questions:
>
> - re: "What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?" & "What
are
> you excited about sharing with sudo room?" i wonder what effect seeing
> these questions on the application would have for someone who's really new
> to the world of hacking and/or someone who might not identify as a hacker
> (ie, someone who would consider themselves a "beginner" or "just
learning"
> - as many of our members, including myself, do). like if you're not sure
> what you're interested on hacking...or if you're not sure what you have to
> share with sudo room. is anyone else concerned that these questions might
> be intimidating to newcomers? (i ask this genuinely). also, what happens if
> a prospective member puts on their application "i don't know" or
"i'm not
> sure" for these questions? would that affect their application?
>
> this leads to my second question:
>
> Under "initial pondering" it says "#** The intent is for it to be
> very easy for new members to join, so only very serious concerns should be
> brought up." what would a "serious concern" be? also there isn't
really any
> indication like..what the yes/no on a person's membership request is based
> on. does the content of what people put in their application matter?
>
> finally, what do folks think is gained by the hacking & sharing q's?
> do you think that you wouldn't get enough information from "what is
> your pseudonym/name" and "why do you want to be a member of sudo
room?"
>
>
> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Marc Juul <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
>
>> These are the proposed changes brought up at the current sudo room
>> meeting. We will attempt to consense on this at the sudo room meeting on
>> Wednesday the 21st of May at 7 pm in sudo room.
>>
>> ===Section 2.1 Qualifications for Membership===
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> * Successfully completing the process for becoming a member, below:
>>
>> ====Section 2.1.0 Process for becoming a member====
>>
>> #'''Declaration of Intent to Join'''
>> #* To become a member, a person must submit a brief written or
>> spoken "Declaration of Intent to Join" where they answer the
>> following questions:
>> #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
>> #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
>> #** What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?
>> #** What are you excited about sharing with sudo room?
>> #'''Initial Pondering'''
>> #* It is only possible to become a member at the weekly sudo room
>> meeting. Prospective members should attend if possible but can submit a
>> written declaration if they are not able to attend in person.
>> #* At the sudo room weekly meeting, every prospective member must
>> leave the room while the existing members have a chance to bring up any
>> concerns or reasons why the prospective member(s) should not be
>> allowed membership (referred to as the "Initial Pondering").
>> #** The intent is for it to be very easy for new members to join, so
>> only very serious concerns should be brought up.
>> #** If any existing member objects to a prospective new member
>> becoming a member, and this cannot be resolved through discussion, then the
>> prospective member will not be allowed membership.
>> #** Unreasonable or frequent blocking of new members by an existing
>> member is grounds for immediate termination of membership based on a 2/3
>> vote.
>> #* Upon completing the "Initial Pondering", such prospectivemembers
must be communicated to the sudo room mailing list within 24 hours,
>> including their "Declaration of Intent to Join".
>> #'''Extended Pondering'''
>> #* After the Initial Pondering, if there are no objections, there
>> will be one week for sudo room members to raise objections as to why the
>> prospective member should not be allowed to join (referred to as the
>> "Extended Pondering").
>> #* If there are no objections raised during the "Extended Pondering",
the
>> prospective member will become a member.
>> #** The intention is to provide sufficient time to ensure all
>> concerns of those unable to attend the meeting may be heard.
>> #* The new member will be added to the membership list and given
>> access to desired and relevant assets and services of sudo room.
>> #* No announcement of this change of status after the "Extended
>> Pondering" is necessary.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
>
1:58 p.m.
Yeah, this seems a bit excessive to me. I don't think people should be
afraid to doze or fall asleep. Members already can kick out
non-members, and habitation is not allowed - why the need to take it so
much further? If there's a problem with a member sleeping in the space,
it should be dealt with like any other member conflict.
On 05/15/2014 12:01 AM, Gregg Horton wrote:
How about a nap pass?
On May 14, 2014 11:48 PM, "Marina Kukso" <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com
<mailto:marina.kukso@gmail.com>> wrote:
sounds good. something that might help in documentation is an
explicit message on the application form (or wherever) that
"membership is typically granted barring some serious
circumstances or reservations and that you shouldn't take the
application questions extremely seriously because you're worried
it might hurt your chances of being accepted - just feel free to
be honest." that wording's not very good, but i think you get the
idea.
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:22 PM, Matthew Senate
<mattsenate(a)gmail.com <mailto:mattsenate@gmail.com>> wrote:
ah yes, I think the idea for that was to generally side on not
specifying too narrowly, but instead to use "human judgment
over automation and efficiency" and cultural protocol to
navigate it. I think "serious issues" is a metric we are
giving to future sudo room members in order for them to weigh
heavily whether some issue that potentially prevents a member
from joining is in fact of a "serious" nature. I'm of the
disposition this means something that conflicts directly with
sudo room's values and the articles of association.
I actually think this process could be fairly easy to go
through that doesn't need to be very intimidating. At the
meeting tonight, everyone was in favor of putting time into
implementing a better experience for new members so that this
policy is clearly outlined and available in multiple formats
(paper, on the website, etc)
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Marina Kukso
<marina.kukso(a)gmail.com <mailto:marina.kukso@gmail.com>> wrote:
thanks matt. i like both of the changed wordings that
you've suggested. i'd be happy with either version.
still wondering about the second issue - what "serious
issues" might be and what the criteria are that the group
would vote people up or down on.
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:10 PM, Matthew Senate
<mattsenate(a)gmail.com <mailto:mattsenate@gmail.com>> wrote:
Phil,
I think nothing in this policy /prevents
/tele-presence, in fact, I think it would be prudent
for a prospective member to, at the very least, offer
to attend the meeting virtually if they cannot be
physically present. Either way, the only requirement
is the prospective member submits something concrete,
in writing (format unspecified, so digital text seems
fine).
Marina,
I have no strong feelings about the exact phrasing, I
think those questions were carried over from Jake's
original(ish) proposal, maybe? Marc, do you know where
those questions came from?
I do like the idea of asking questions to get three
kinds of responses:
1. A response about why they are interested, leaving
the opportunity for setting some context to joining.
2. A response about what specifically they want to do
(commonly folks have particular projects or uses in
mind as they get involved with sudo)
2. A response about specifically how they see
themselves contributing to the community, as giving
some sort contribution /is/ an expectation, but
extremely open / liberal. I think "share" is a great
term to express this.
I have no reason to think we should hang on to the
question about "hacking" in particular, maybe
alternatives:
#** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
#** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
#** Do you happen to have something in mind that you
would like to do at sudo room?
#** Do you happen to have something in mind that you
would like to share with the sudo room community?
That being said, I'd also be happy with the truncated
version:
#** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
#** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
// Matt
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Marina Kukso
<marina.kukso(a)gmail.com
<mailto:marina.kukso@gmail.com>> wrote:
thanks and apologies that i haven't had a chance
to be a part of this discussion until now. i have
a few questions:
- re: "What are you excited about hacking at sudo
room?" & "What are you excited about sharing with
sudo room?" i wonder what effect seeing these
questions on the application would have for
someone who's really new to the world of hacking
and/or someone who might not identify as a hacker
(ie, someone who would consider themselves a
"beginner" or "just learning" - as many of our
members, including myself, do). like if you're not
sure what you're interested on hacking...or if
you're not sure what you have to share with sudo
room. is anyone else concerned that these
questions might be intimidating to newcomers? (i
ask this genuinely). also, what happens if a
prospective member puts on their application "i
don't know" or "i'm not sure" for these
questions?
would that affect their application?
this leads to my second question:
Under "initial pondering" it says "#** The intent
is for it to be very easy for new members to join,
so only very serious concerns should be brought
up." what would a "serious concern" be? also there
isn't really any indication like..what the yes/no
on a person's membership request is based on. does
the content of what people put in their
application matter?
finally, what do folks think is gained by the
hacking & sharing q's? do you think that you
wouldn't get enough information from "what is your
pseudonym/name" and "why do you want to be a
member of sudo room?"
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Marc Juul
<juul(a)labitat.dk <mailto:juul@labitat.dk>> wrote:
These are the proposed changes brought up at
the current sudo room meeting. We will attempt
to consense on this at the sudo room meeting
on Wednesday the 21st of May at 7 pm in sudo room.
===Section 2.1 Qualifications for Membership===
[...]
* Successfully completing the process for
becoming a member, below:
====Section 2.1.0 Process for becoming a
member====
#'''Declaration of Intent to Join'''
#* To become a member, a person must submit a
brief written or spoken "Declaration of Intent
to Join"where they answer the following questions:
#**What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
#** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
#** What are you excited about hacking at sudo
room?
#** What are you excited about sharing with
sudo room?
#'''Initial Pondering'''
#* It is only possible to become a member at
the weekly sudo room meeting. Prospective
members should attend if possible but can
submit a written declaration if they are not
able to attendin person.
#* At the sudo room weekly meeting,
everyprospective membermust leave the room
while the existing members have a chance to
bring up any concerns or reasons why the
prospective member(s)should not be allowed
membership (referred to as the "Initial
Pondering").
#** The intent is for it to be very easy for
new members to join, so only very serious
concerns should be brought up.
#** If any existing member objects to a
prospective new member becoming a member, and
this cannot be resolved through discussion,
then the prospective member will not be
allowed membership.
#** Unreasonable or frequent blocking of new
members by an existing member is grounds for
immediate termination of membership based on a
2/3 vote.
#* Upon completing the "Initial Pondering",
such prospectivemembers must be communicated
to the sudo room mailing list within 24 hours,
including their "Declaration of Intent to Join".
#'''Extended Pondering'''
#* After the Initial Pondering, if there are
no objections,there will be one week for sudo
room members to raise objections as to why the
prospective member should not be allowed to
join (referred to as the "Extended Pondering").
#* If there are no objections raised during
the "Extended Pondering", the prospective
member will become a member.
#** The intention is to provide sufficient
time to ensure all concerns of those unable to
attend the meeting may be heard.
#* The new member will be added to the
membership list and given access to desired
and relevant assets and services of sudo room.
#* No announcement of this change of
statusafter the "Extended Pondering"is necessary.
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
2:13 p.m.
I'm with Sam. Thought the wording and gist of the proposed changes were,
in essence, rococo in their complexity. Sub-optimal from a user-interface
POV. Simplify, simplify, simplify!
Just my $0.02.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Sam Tepper <sam.tepper(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Yeah, this seems a bit excessive to me. I don't
think people should be
afraid to doze or fall asleep. Members already can kick out non-members,
and habitation is not allowed - why the need to take it so much further?
If there's a problem with a member sleeping in the space, it should be
dealt with like any other member conflict.
On 05/15/2014 12:01 AM, Gregg Horton wrote:
How about a nap pass?
On May 14, 2014 11:48 PM, "Marina Kukso" <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com> wrote:
--
Tony Barreca
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/tonybarreca
Skype: tonybarreca
Twitter: tbarreca
Mobile: (510) 710-5864
sounds good. something that might help in
documentation is an explicit
message on the application form (or wherever) that "membership is typically
granted barring some serious circumstances or reservations and that you
shouldn't take the application questions extremely seriously because you're
worried it might hurt your chances of being accepted - just feel free to be
honest." that wording's not very good, but i think you get the idea.
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:22 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing
listsudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.orghttps://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
ah yes, I think the idea for that was to
generally side on not
specifying too narrowly, but instead to use "human judgment over automation
and efficiency" and cultural protocol to navigate it. I think "serious
issues" is a metric we are giving to future sudo room members in order for
them to weigh heavily whether some issue that potentially prevents a member
from joining is in fact of a "serious" nature. I'm of the disposition this
means something that conflicts directly with sudo room's values and the
articles of association.
I actually think this process could be fairly easy to go through that
doesn't need to be very intimidating. At the meeting tonight, everyone was
in favor of putting time into implementing a better experience for new
members so that this policy is clearly outlined and available in multiple
formats (paper, on the website, etc)
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
thanks matt. i like both of the changed wordings
that you've
suggested. i'd be happy with either version.
still wondering about the second issue - what "serious issues" might
be and what the criteria are that the group would vote people up or down on.
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:10 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
> Phil,
>
> I think nothing in this policy *prevents *tele-presence, in fact, I
> think it would be prudent for a prospective member to, at the very least,
> offer to attend the meeting virtually if they cannot be physically present.
> Either way, the only requirement is the prospective member submits
> something concrete, in writing (format unspecified, so digital text seems
> fine).
>
> Marina,
>
> I have no strong feelings about the exact phrasing, I think those
> questions were carried over from Jake's original(ish) proposal, maybe?
> Marc, do you know where those questions came from?
>
> I do like the idea of asking questions to get three kinds of
> responses:
> 1. A response about why they are interested, leaving the opportunity
> for setting some context to joining.
> 2. A response about what specifically they want to do (commonly folks
> have particular projects or uses in mind as they get involved with sudo)
> 2. A response about specifically how they see themselves contributing
> to the community, as giving some sort contribution *is* an
> expectation, but extremely open / liberal. I think "share" is a great term
> to express this.
>
> I have no reason to think we should hang on to the question about
> "hacking" in particular, maybe alternatives:
>
> #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
> #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
> #** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to
> do at sudo room?
> #** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to
> share with the sudo room community?
>
> That being said, I'd also be happy with the truncated version:
>
> #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
> #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
>
> // Matt
>
>
> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
>
>> thanks and apologies that i haven't had a chance to be a part of
>> this discussion until now. i have a few questions:
>>
>> - re: "What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?" &
"What
>> are you excited about sharing with sudo room?" i wonder what effect seeing
>> these questions on the application would have for someone who's really new
>> to the world of hacking and/or someone who might not identify as a hacker
>> (ie, someone who would consider themselves a "beginner" or "just
learning"
>> - as many of our members, including myself, do). like if you're not sure
>> what you're interested on hacking...or if you're not sure what you have
to
>> share with sudo room. is anyone else concerned that these questions might
>> be intimidating to newcomers? (i ask this genuinely). also, what happens if
>> a prospective member puts on their application "i don't know" or
"i'm not
>> sure" for these questions? would that affect their application?
>>
>> this leads to my second question:
>>
>> Under "initial pondering" it says "#** The intent is for it to
be
>> very easy for new members to join, so only very serious concerns should be
>> brought up." what would a "serious concern" be? also there
isn't really any
>> indication like..what the yes/no on a person's membership request is based
>> on. does the content of what people put in their application matter?
>>
>> finally, what do folks think is gained by the hacking & sharing
>> q's? do you think that you wouldn't get enough information from
"what
>> is your pseudonym/name" and "why do you want to be a member of sudo
room?"
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Marc Juul <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
>>
>>> These are the proposed changes brought up at the current sudo
>>> room meeting. We will attempt to consense on this at the sudo room meeting
>>> on Wednesday the 21st of May at 7 pm in sudo room.
>>>
>>> ===Section 2.1 Qualifications for Membership===
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> * Successfully completing the process for becoming a member, below:
>>>
>>> ====Section 2.1.0 Process for becoming a member====
>>>
>>> #'''Declaration of Intent to Join'''
>>> #* To become a member, a person must submit a brief written or
>>> spoken "Declaration of Intent to Join" where they answer the
>>> following questions:
>>> #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
>>> #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
>>> #** What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?
>>> #** What are you excited about sharing with sudo room?
>>> #'''Initial Pondering'''
>>> #* It is only possible to become a member at the weekly sudo room
>>> meeting. Prospective members should attend if possible but can submit a
>>> written declaration if they are not able to attend in person.
>>> #* At the sudo room weekly meeting, every prospective member must
>>> leave the room while the existing members have a chance to bring up any
>>> concerns or reasons why the prospective member(s) should not be
>>> allowed membership (referred to as the "Initial Pondering").
>>> #** The intent is for it to be very easy for new members to join,
>>> so only very serious concerns should be brought up.
>>> #** If any existing member objects to a prospective new member
>>> becoming a member, and this cannot be resolved through discussion, then the
>>> prospective member will not be allowed membership.
>>> #** Unreasonable or frequent blocking of new members by an existing
>>> member is grounds for immediate termination of membership based on a 2/3
>>> vote.
>>> #* Upon completing the "Initial Pondering", such
prospectivemembers must be communicated to the sudo room mailing list within 24 hours,
>>> including their "Declaration of Intent to Join".
>>> #'''Extended Pondering'''
>>> #* After the Initial Pondering, if there are no objections, there
>>> will be one week for sudo room members to raise objections as to why the
>>> prospective member should not be allowed to join (referred to as the
>>> "Extended Pondering").
>>> #* If there are no objections raised during the "Extended
>>> Pondering", the prospective member will become a member.
>>> #** The intention is to provide sufficient time to ensure all
>>> concerns of those unable to attend the meeting may be heard.
>>> #* The new member will be added to the membership list and given
>>> access to desired and relevant assets and services of sudo room.
>>> #* No announcement of this change of status after the "Extended
>>> Pondering" is necessary.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
>>
>
3:12 p.m.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 2:13 PM, Tony Barreca <tony.barreca(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
I'm with Sam. Thought the wording and gist of the
proposed changes were,
in essence, rococo in their complexity. Sub-optimal from a user-interface
POV. Simplify, simplify, simplify!
Which part did you feel needed simplifying? "Sudo room is not intended to
be used for habitation or domestic purposes" or "No-one is allowed to
sleepin sudo room at any time"?
I think the idea was that "not intended for habitation" was too abstract
and hard to enforce, and that a simple "no sleeping" rule would better
empower members to stand up against problematic individuals.
Having people sleep in the space (and becoming know as a place where people
*can* spend the night) has been a big problem at Noisebridge and many other
hackerspaces. A straightforward "no sleeping" rule may be overly
simplistic, but it still takes a real person to make a judgement call on
whether or not to enforce the rule depending on the situation.
Patrik
11:13 p.m.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 12:01 AM, Gregg Horton <greggahorton(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
How about a nap pass?
I think you're in the wrong thread. The proposed changes have nothing to do
with sleeping.
On May 14, 2014 11:48 PM, "Marina Kukso"
<marina.kukso(a)gmail.com> wrote:
sounds good. something that might help in
documentation is an explicit
message on the application form (or wherever) that "membership is typically
granted barring some serious circumstances or reservations and that you
shouldn't take the application questions extremely seriously because you're
worried it might hurt your chances of being accepted - just feel free to be
honest." that wording's not very good, but i think you get the idea.
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:22 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
ah yes, I think the idea for that was to
generally side on not
specifying too narrowly, but instead to use "human judgment over automation
and efficiency" and cultural protocol to navigate it. I think "serious
issues" is a metric we are giving to future sudo room members in order for
them to weigh heavily whether some issue that potentially prevents a member
from joining is in fact of a "serious" nature. I'm of the disposition this
means something that conflicts directly with sudo room's values and the
articles of association.
I actually think this process could be fairly easy to go through that
doesn't need to be very intimidating. At the meeting tonight, everyone was
in favor of putting time into implementing a better experience for new
members so that this policy is clearly outlined and available in multiple
formats (paper, on the website, etc)
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
thanks matt. i like both of the changed wordings
that you've suggested.
i'd be happy with either version.
still wondering about the second issue - what "serious issues" might be
and what the criteria are that the group would vote people up or down on.
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:10 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
> Phil,
>
> I think nothing in this policy *prevents *tele-presence, in fact, I
> think it would be prudent for a prospective member to, at the very least,
> offer to attend the meeting virtually if they cannot be physically present.
> Either way, the only requirement is the prospective member submits
> something concrete, in writing (format unspecified, so digital text seems
> fine).
>
> Marina,
>
> I have no strong feelings about the exact phrasing, I think those
> questions were carried over from Jake's original(ish) proposal, maybe?
> Marc, do you know where those questions came from?
>
> I do like the idea of asking questions to get three kinds of responses:
> 1. A response about why they are interested, leaving the opportunity
> for setting some context to joining.
> 2. A response about what specifically they want to do (commonly folks
> have particular projects or uses in mind as they get involved with sudo)
> 2. A response about specifically how they see themselves contributing
> to the community, as giving some sort contribution *is* an
> expectation, but extremely open / liberal. I think "share" is a great term
> to express this.
>
> I have no reason to think we should hang on to the question about
> "hacking" in particular, maybe alternatives:
>
> #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
> #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
> #** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to do
> at sudo room?
> #** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to
> share with the sudo room community?
>
> That being said, I'd also be happy with the truncated version:
>
> #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
> #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
>
> // Matt
>
>
> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
>
>> thanks and apologies that i haven't had a chance to be a part of this
>> discussion until now. i have a few questions:
>>
>> - re: "What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?" &
"What are
>> you excited about sharing with sudo room?" i wonder what effect seeing
>> these questions on the application would have for someone who's really new
>> to the world of hacking and/or someone who might not identify as a hacker
>> (ie, someone who would consider themselves a "beginner" or "just
learning"
>> - as many of our members, including myself, do). like if you're not sure
>> what you're interested on hacking...or if you're not sure what you have
to
>> share with sudo room. is anyone else concerned that these questions might
>> be intimidating to newcomers? (i ask this genuinely). also, what happens if
>> a prospective member puts on their application "i don't know" or
"i'm not
>> sure" for these questions? would that affect their application?
>>
>> this leads to my second question:
>>
>> Under "initial pondering" it says "#** The intent is for it to be
>> very easy for new members to join, so only very serious concerns should be
>> brought up." what would a "serious concern" be? also there
isn't really any
>> indication like..what the yes/no on a person's membership request is based
>> on. does the content of what people put in their application matter?
>>
>> finally, what do folks think is gained by the hacking & sharing q's?
>> do you think that you wouldn't get enough information from "what is
>> your pseudonym/name" and "why do you want to be a member of sudo
room?"
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Marc Juul <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
>>
>>> These are the proposed changes brought up at the current sudo room
>>> meeting. We will attempt to consense on this at the sudo room meeting on
>>> Wednesday the 21st of May at 7 pm in sudo room.
>>>
>>> ===Section 2.1 Qualifications for Membership===
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> * Successfully completing the process for becoming a member, below:
>>>
>>> ====Section 2.1.0 Process for becoming a member====
>>>
>>> #'''Declaration of Intent to Join'''
>>> #* To become a member, a person must submit a brief written or
>>> spoken "Declaration of Intent to Join" where they answer the
>>> following questions:
>>> #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
>>> #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
>>> #** What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?
>>> #** What are you excited about sharing with sudo room?
>>> #'''Initial Pondering'''
>>> #* It is only possible to become a member at the weekly sudo room
>>> meeting. Prospective members should attend if possible but can submit a
>>> written declaration if they are not able to attend in person.
>>> #* At the sudo room weekly meeting, every prospective member must
>>> leave the room while the existing members have a chance to bring up any
>>> concerns or reasons why the prospective member(s) should not be
>>> allowed membership (referred to as the "Initial Pondering").
>>> #** The intent is for it to be very easy for new members to join,
>>> so only very serious concerns should be brought up.
>>> #** If any existing member objects to a prospective new member
>>> becoming a member, and this cannot be resolved through discussion, then the
>>> prospective member will not be allowed membership.
>>> #** Unreasonable or frequent blocking of new members by an existing
>>> member is grounds for immediate termination of membership based on a 2/3
>>> vote.
>>> #* Upon completing the "Initial Pondering", such
prospectivemembers must be communicated to the sudo room mailing list within 24 hours,
>>> including their "Declaration of Intent to Join".
>>> #'''Extended Pondering'''
>>> #* After the Initial Pondering, if there are no objections, there
>>> will be one week for sudo room members to raise objections as to why the
>>> prospective member should not be allowed to join (referred to as the
>>> "Extended Pondering").
>>> #* If there are no objections raised during the "Extended
>>> Pondering", the prospective member will become a member.
>>> #** The intention is to provide sufficient time to ensure all
>>> concerns of those unable to attend the meeting may be heard.
>>> #* The new member will be added to the membership list and given
>>> access to desired and relevant assets and services of sudo room.
>>> #* No announcement of this change of status after the "Extended
>>> Pondering" is necessary.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
>>
>
11:31 p.m.
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
thanks and apologies that i haven't had a chance
to be a part of this
discussion until now. i have a few questions:
- re: "What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?" & "What are
you
excited about sharing with sudo room?" i wonder what effect seeing these
questions on the application would have for someone who's really new to the
world of hacking and/or someone who might not identify as a hacker (ie,
someone who would consider themselves a "beginner" or "just learning"
- as
many of our members, including myself, do). like if you're not sure what
you're interested on hacking...or if you're not sure what you have to share
with sudo room. is anyone else concerned that these questions might be
intimidating to newcomers? (i ask this genuinely). also, what happens if a
prospective member puts on their application "i don't know" or
"i'm not
sure" for these questions? would that affect their application?
That's a good point. Maybe we could provide examples of other people's
answers and state that it's totally ok if you feel like you don't have a
lot to share but that the idea is for people to show their intent to
contribute to the community. We can also remove the list of questions from
the articles of association and simply reference an "introduce yourself"
form that we can keep on the wiki and improve as needed?
this leads to my second question:
Under "initial pondering" it says "#** The intent is for it to be very
easy for new members to join, so only very serious concerns should be
brought up." what would a "serious concern" be? also there isn't
really any
indication like..what the yes/no on a person's membership request is based
on. does the content of what people put in their application matter?
The idea is that we use our best judgment as a community and discuss as
needed. We left out a definition of what serious concerns would be because
anyone should be able to bring up any concerns that they feel are serious
and then the community decides if they're serious enough based on available
information. Basically we trust the community to make good decisions on a
case by case basis.
finally, what do folks think is gained by the hacking
& sharing q's? do
you think that you wouldn't get enough information from "what is your
pseudonym/name" and "why do you want to be a member of sudo room?"
I feel like it's important that people realize that they are expected to
contribute to sudo room. That it's not just about what they want out of
sudo room. I think we should make that explicit somehow. Maybe we can make
it friendlier?
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Marc Juul <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
These are the proposed changes brought up at the
current sudo room
meeting. We will attempt to consense on this at the sudo room meeting on
Wednesday the 21st of May at 7 pm in sudo room.
===Section 2.1 Qualifications for Membership===
[...]
* Successfully completing the process for becoming a member, below:
====Section 2.1.0 Process for becoming a member====
#'''Declaration of Intent to Join'''
#* To become a member, a person must submit a brief written or spoken "Declaration
of Intent to Join" where they answer the following questions:
#** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
#** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
#** What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?
#** What are you excited about sharing with sudo room?
#'''Initial Pondering'''
#* It is only possible to become a member at the weekly sudo room
meeting. Prospective members should attend if possible but can submit a
written declaration if they are not able to attend in person.
#* At the sudo room weekly meeting, every prospective member must leave
the room while the existing members have a chance to bring up any concerns
or reasons why the prospective member(s) should not be allowed
membership (referred to as the "Initial Pondering").
#** The intent is for it to be very easy for new members to join, so
only very serious concerns should be brought up.
#** If any existing member objects to a prospective new member becoming
a member, and this cannot be resolved through discussion, then the
prospective member will not be allowed membership.
#** Unreasonable or frequent blocking of new members by an existing
member is grounds for immediate termination of membership based on a 2/3
vote.
#* Upon completing the "Initial Pondering", such prospective members
must be communicated to the sudo room mailing list within 24 hours,
including their "Declaration of Intent to Join".
#'''Extended Pondering'''
#* After the Initial Pondering, if there are no objections, there will
be one week for sudo room members to raise objections as to why the
prospective member should not be allowed to join (referred to as the
"Extended Pondering").
#* If there are no objections raised during the "Extended Pondering", the
prospective member will become a member.
#** The intention is to provide sufficient time to ensure all concerns of
those unable to attend the meeting may be heard.
#* The new member will be added to the membership list and given access
to desired and relevant assets and services of sudo room.
#* No announcement of this change of status after the "Extended
Pondering" is necessary.
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
16 May
16 May
9:49 p.m.
Ah, maybe even simpler:
#** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
#** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
#** If you know already, what are you excited to do at sudo room?
#** If you know already, what are you excited to share with the sudo room
community?
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:31 PM, Marc Juul <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Marina Kukso
<marina.kukso(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
thanks and apologies that i haven't had a
chance to be a part of this
discussion until now. i have a few questions:
- re: "What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?" & "What are
you
excited about sharing with sudo room?" i wonder what effect seeing these
questions on the application would have for someone who's really new to the
world of hacking and/or someone who might not identify as a hacker (ie,
someone who would consider themselves a "beginner" or "just learning"
- as
many of our members, including myself, do). like if you're not sure what
you're interested on hacking...or if you're not sure what you have to share
with sudo room. is anyone else concerned that these questions might be
intimidating to newcomers? (i ask this genuinely). also, what happens if a
prospective member puts on their application "i don't know" or
"i'm not
sure" for these questions? would that affect their application?
That's a good point. Maybe we could provide examples of other people's
answers and state that it's totally ok if you feel like you don't have a
lot to share but that the idea is for people to show their intent to
contribute to the community. We can also remove the list of questions from
the articles of association and simply reference an "introduce yourself"
form that we can keep on the wiki and improve as needed?
this leads to my second question:
Under "initial pondering" it says "#** The intent is for it to be very
easy for new members to join, so only very serious concerns should be
brought up." what would a "serious concern" be? also there isn't
really any
indication like..what the yes/no on a person's membership request is based
on. does the content of what people put in their application matter?
The idea is that we use our best judgment as a community and discuss as
needed. We left out a definition of what serious concerns would be because
anyone should be able to bring up any concerns that they feel are serious
and then the community decides if they're serious enough based on available
information. Basically we trust the community to make good decisions on a
case by case basis.
finally, what do folks think is gained by the
hacking & sharing q's? do
you think that you wouldn't get enough information from "what is your
pseudonym/name" and "why do you want to be a member of sudo room?"
I feel like it's important that people realize that they are expected to
contribute to sudo room. That it's not just about what they want out of
sudo room. I think we should make that explicit somehow. Maybe we can make
it friendlier?
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Marc Juul <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
These are the proposed changes brought up at the
current sudo room
meeting. We will attempt to consense on this at the sudo room meeting on
Wednesday the 21st of May at 7 pm in sudo room.
===Section 2.1 Qualifications for Membership===
[...]
* Successfully completing the process for becoming a member, below:
====Section 2.1.0 Process for becoming a member====
#'''Declaration of Intent to Join'''
#* To become a member, a person must submit a brief written or spoken "Declaration
of Intent to Join" where they answer the following questions:
#** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
#** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
#** What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?
#** What are you excited about sharing with sudo room?
#'''Initial Pondering'''
#* It is only possible to become a member at the weekly sudo room
meeting. Prospective members should attend if possible but can submit a
written declaration if they are not able to attend in person.
#* At the sudo room weekly meeting, every prospective member must leave
the room while the existing members have a chance to bring up any concerns
or reasons why the prospective member(s) should not be allowed
membership (referred to as the "Initial Pondering").
#** The intent is for it to be very easy for new members to join, so
only very serious concerns should be brought up.
#** If any existing member objects to a prospective new member becoming
a member, and this cannot be resolved through discussion, then the
prospective member will not be allowed membership.
#** Unreasonable or frequent blocking of new members by an existing
member is grounds for immediate termination of membership based on a 2/3
vote.
#* Upon completing the "Initial Pondering", such prospective members
must be communicated to the sudo room mailing list within 24 hours,
including their "Declaration of Intent to Join".
#'''Extended Pondering'''
#* After the Initial Pondering, if there are no objections, there will
be one week for sudo room members to raise objections as to why the
prospective member should not be allowed to join (referred to as the
"Extended Pondering").
#* If there are no objections raised during the "Extended Pondering", the
prospective member will become a member.
#** The intention is to provide sufficient time to ensure all concerns
of those unable to attend the meeting may be heard.
#* The new member will be added to the membership list and given access
to desired and relevant assets and services of sudo room.
#* No announcement of this change of status after the "Extended
Pondering" is necessary.
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
9:50 p.m.
I can't tell anymore
On May 15, 2014 11:13 PM, "Marc Juul" <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 12:01 AM, Gregg Horton
<greggahorton(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
How about a nap pass?
I think you're in the wrong thread. The proposed changes have nothing to
do with sleeping.
On May 14, 2014 11:48 PM, "Marina
Kukso" <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com> wrote:
sounds good. something that might help in
documentation is an explicit
message on the application form (or wherever) that "membership is typically
granted barring some serious circumstances or reservations and that you
shouldn't take the application questions extremely seriously because you're
worried it might hurt your chances of being accepted - just feel free to be
honest." that wording's not very good, but i think you get the idea.
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:22 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
ah yes, I think the idea for that was to
generally side on not
specifying too narrowly, but instead to use "human judgment over automation
and efficiency" and cultural protocol to navigate it. I think "serious
issues" is a metric we are giving to future sudo room members in order for
them to weigh heavily whether some issue that potentially prevents a member
from joining is in fact of a "serious" nature. I'm of the disposition this
means something that conflicts directly with sudo room's values and the
articles of association.
I actually think this process could be fairly easy to go through that
doesn't need to be very intimidating. At the meeting tonight, everyone was
in favor of putting time into implementing a better experience for new
members so that this policy is clearly outlined and available in multiple
formats (paper, on the website, etc)
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
> thanks matt. i like both of the changed wordings that you've
> suggested. i'd be happy with either version.
>
> still wondering about the second issue - what "serious issues" might
> be and what the criteria are that the group would vote people up or down on.
>
>
> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:10 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Phil,
>>
>> I think nothing in this policy *prevents *tele-presence, in fact, I
>> think it would be prudent for a prospective member to, at the very least,
>> offer to attend the meeting virtually if they cannot be physically present.
>> Either way, the only requirement is the prospective member submits
>> something concrete, in writing (format unspecified, so digital text seems
>> fine).
>>
>> Marina,
>>
>> I have no strong feelings about the exact phrasing, I think those
>> questions were carried over from Jake's original(ish) proposal, maybe?
>> Marc, do you know where those questions came from?
>>
>> I do like the idea of asking questions to get three kinds of
>> responses:
>> 1. A response about why they are interested, leaving the opportunity
>> for setting some context to joining.
>> 2. A response about what specifically they want to do (commonly folks
>> have particular projects or uses in mind as they get involved with sudo)
>> 2. A response about specifically how they see themselves contributing
>> to the community, as giving some sort contribution *is* an
>> expectation, but extremely open / liberal. I think "share" is a great
term
>> to express this.
>>
>> I have no reason to think we should hang on to the question about
>> "hacking" in particular, maybe alternatives:
>>
>> #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
>> #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
>> #** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to do
>> at sudo room?
>> #** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to
>> share with the sudo room community?
>>
>> That being said, I'd also be happy with the truncated version:
>>
>> #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
>> #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
>>
>> // Matt
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> thanks and apologies that i haven't had a chance to be a part of
>>> this discussion until now. i have a few questions:
>>>
>>> - re: "What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?" &
"What
>>> are you excited about sharing with sudo room?" i wonder what effect
seeing
>>> these questions on the application would have for someone who's really
new
>>> to the world of hacking and/or someone who might not identify as a hacker
>>> (ie, someone who would consider themselves a "beginner" or
"just learning"
>>> - as many of our members, including myself, do). like if you're not sure
>>> what you're interested on hacking...or if you're not sure what you
have to
>>> share with sudo room. is anyone else concerned that these questions might
>>> be intimidating to newcomers? (i ask this genuinely). also, what happens if
>>> a prospective member puts on their application "i don't know"
or "i'm not
>>> sure" for these questions? would that affect their application?
>>>
>>> this leads to my second question:
>>>
>>> Under "initial pondering" it says "#** The intent is for it to
be
>>> very easy for new members to join, so only very serious concerns should be
>>> brought up." what would a "serious concern" be? also there
isn't really any
>>> indication like..what the yes/no on a person's membership request is
based
>>> on. does the content of what people put in their application matter?
>>>
>>> finally, what do folks think is gained by the hacking & sharing q's?
>>> do you think that you wouldn't get enough information from "what is
>>> your pseudonym/name" and "why do you want to be a member of sudo
room?"
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Marc Juul <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> These are the proposed changes brought up at the current sudo room
>>>> meeting. We will attempt to consense on this at the sudo room meeting on
>>>> Wednesday the 21st of May at 7 pm in sudo room.
>>>>
>>>> ===Section 2.1 Qualifications for Membership===
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>> * Successfully completing the process for becoming a member, below:
>>>>
>>>> ====Section 2.1.0 Process for becoming a member====
>>>>
>>>> #'''Declaration of Intent to Join'''
>>>> #* To become a member, a person must submit a brief written or
>>>> spoken "Declaration of Intent to Join" where they answer the
>>>> following questions:
>>>> #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
>>>> #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
>>>> #** What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?
>>>> #** What are you excited about sharing with sudo room?
>>>> #'''Initial Pondering'''
>>>> #* It is only possible to become a member at the weekly sudo room
>>>> meeting. Prospective members should attend if possible but can submit a
>>>> written declaration if they are not able to attend in person.
>>>> #* At the sudo room weekly meeting, every prospective member must
>>>> leave the room while the existing members have a chance to bring up any
>>>> concerns or reasons why the prospective member(s) should not be
>>>> allowed membership (referred to as the "Initial Pondering").
>>>> #** The intent is for it to be very easy for new members to join,
>>>> so only very serious concerns should be brought up.
>>>> #** If any existing member objects to a prospective new member
>>>> becoming a member, and this cannot be resolved through discussion, then
the
>>>> prospective member will not be allowed membership.
>>>> #** Unreasonable or frequent blocking of new members by an
>>>> existing member is grounds for immediate termination of membership based
on
>>>> a 2/3 vote.
>>>> #* Upon completing the "Initial Pondering", such
prospectivemembers must be communicated to the sudo room mailing list within 24 hours,
>>>> including their "Declaration of Intent to Join".
>>>> #'''Extended Pondering'''
>>>> #* After the Initial Pondering, if there are no objections, there
>>>> will be one week for sudo room members to raise objections as to why the
>>>> prospective member should not be allowed to join (referred to as the
>>>> "Extended Pondering").
>>>> #* If there are no objections raised during the "Extended
>>>> Pondering", the prospective member will become a member.
>>>> #** The intention is to provide sufficient time to ensure all
>>>> concerns of those unable to attend the meeting may be heard.
>>>> #* The new member will be added to the membership list and given
>>>> access to desired and relevant assets and services of sudo room.
>>>> #* No announcement of this change of status after the "Extended
>>>> Pondering" is necessary.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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12 Jun
12 Jun
12:43 a.m.
Updated the questions and a notice about the purely informational nature of
the questions:
https://sudoroom.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Articles_of_Association%2FMe…
'To become a member, a person must submit a brief written or spoken
"Declaration of Intent to Join" where they answer the following questions
(for informational purposes only, in other words "there are no wrong
answers"):'
// Matt
On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 9:50 PM, Gregg Horton <greggahorton(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
I can't tell anymore
On May 15, 2014 11:13 PM, "Marc Juul" <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 12:01 AM, Gregg Horton
<greggahorton(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
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How about a nap pass?
I think you're in the wrong thread. The proposed changes have nothing to
do with sleeping.
On May 14, 2014 11:48 PM, "Marina
Kukso" <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com> wrote:
sounds good. something that might help in
documentation is an explicit
message on the application form (or wherever) that "membership is typically
granted barring some serious circumstances or reservations and that you
shouldn't take the application questions extremely seriously because you're
worried it might hurt your chances of being accepted - just feel free to be
honest." that wording's not very good, but i think you get the idea.
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:22 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> ah yes, I think the idea for that was to generally side on not
> specifying too narrowly, but instead to use "human judgment over automation
> and efficiency" and cultural protocol to navigate it. I think "serious
> issues" is a metric we are giving to future sudo room members in order for
> them to weigh heavily whether some issue that potentially prevents a member
> from joining is in fact of a "serious" nature. I'm of the disposition
this
> means something that conflicts directly with sudo room's values and the
> articles of association.
>
> I actually think this process could be fairly easy to go through that
> doesn't need to be very intimidating. At the meeting tonight, everyone was
> in favor of putting time into implementing a better experience for new
> members so that this policy is clearly outlined and available in multiple
> formats (paper, on the website, etc)
>
>
> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> thanks matt. i like both of the changed wordings that you've
>> suggested. i'd be happy with either version.
>>
>> still wondering about the second issue - what "serious issues" might
>> be and what the criteria are that the group would vote people up or down on.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:10 PM, Matthew Senate <
>> mattsenate(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Phil,
>>>
>>> I think nothing in this policy *prevents *tele-presence, in fact, I
>>> think it would be prudent for a prospective member to, at the very least,
>>> offer to attend the meeting virtually if they cannot be physically present.
>>> Either way, the only requirement is the prospective member submits
>>> something concrete, in writing (format unspecified, so digital text seems
>>> fine).
>>>
>>> Marina,
>>>
>>> I have no strong feelings about the exact phrasing, I think those
>>> questions were carried over from Jake's original(ish) proposal, maybe?
>>> Marc, do you know where those questions came from?
>>>
>>> I do like the idea of asking questions to get three kinds of
>>> responses:
>>> 1. A response about why they are interested, leaving the opportunity
>>> for setting some context to joining.
>>> 2. A response about what specifically they want to do (commonly
>>> folks have particular projects or uses in mind as they get involved with
>>> sudo)
>>> 2. A response about specifically how they see themselves
>>> contributing to the community, as giving some sort contribution *is*
>>> an expectation, but extremely open / liberal. I think "share" is a
great
>>> term to express this.
>>>
>>> I have no reason to think we should hang on to the question about
>>> "hacking" in particular, maybe alternatives:
>>>
>>> #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
>>> #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
>>> #** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to
>>> do at sudo room?
>>> #** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to
>>> share with the sudo room community?
>>>
>>> That being said, I'd also be happy with the truncated version:
>>>
>>> #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
>>> #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
>>>
>>> // Matt
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Marina Kukso <
>>> marina.kukso(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> thanks and apologies that i haven't had a chance to be a part of
>>>> this discussion until now. i have a few questions:
>>>>
>>>> - re: "What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?" &
"What
>>>> are you excited about sharing with sudo room?" i wonder what effect
seeing
>>>> these questions on the application would have for someone who's
really new
>>>> to the world of hacking and/or someone who might not identify as a
hacker
>>>> (ie, someone who would consider themselves a "beginner" or
"just learning"
>>>> - as many of our members, including myself, do). like if you're not
sure
>>>> what you're interested on hacking...or if you're not sure what
you have to
>>>> share with sudo room. is anyone else concerned that these questions
might
>>>> be intimidating to newcomers? (i ask this genuinely). also, what happens
if
>>>> a prospective member puts on their application "i don't
know" or "i'm not
>>>> sure" for these questions? would that affect their application?
>>>>
>>>> this leads to my second question:
>>>>
>>>> Under "initial pondering" it says "#** The intent is for
it to be
>>>> very easy for new members to join, so only very serious concerns should
be
>>>> brought up." what would a "serious concern" be? also there
isn't really any
>>>> indication like..what the yes/no on a person's membership request is
based
>>>> on. does the content of what people put in their application matter?
>>>>
>>>> finally, what do folks think is gained by the hacking & sharing
>>>> q's? do you think that you wouldn't get enough information from
"what
>>>> is your pseudonym/name" and "why do you want to be a member of
sudo room?"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Marc Juul <juul(a)labitat.dk>
wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> These are the proposed changes brought up at the current sudo room
>>>>> meeting. We will attempt to consense on this at the sudo room meeting
on
>>>>> Wednesday the 21st of May at 7 pm in sudo room.
>>>>>
>>>>> ===Section 2.1 Qualifications for Membership===
>>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> * Successfully completing the process for becoming a member, below:
>>>>>
>>>>> ====Section 2.1.0 Process for becoming a member====
>>>>>
>>>>> #'''Declaration of Intent to Join'''
>>>>> #* To become a member, a person must submit a brief written or
>>>>> spoken "Declaration of Intent to Join" where they answer
the
>>>>> following questions:
>>>>> #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
>>>>> #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
>>>>> #** What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?
>>>>> #** What are you excited about sharing with sudo room?
>>>>> #'''Initial Pondering'''
>>>>> #* It is only possible to become a member at the weekly sudo room
>>>>> meeting. Prospective members should attend if possible but can submit
a
>>>>> written declaration if they are not able to attend in person.
>>>>> #* At the sudo room weekly meeting, every prospective member must
>>>>> leave the room while the existing members have a chance to bring up
any
>>>>> concerns or reasons why the prospective member(s) should not be
>>>>> allowed membership (referred to as the "Initial
Pondering").
>>>>> #** The intent is for it to be very easy for new members to join,
>>>>> so only very serious concerns should be brought up.
>>>>> #** If any existing member objects to a prospective new member
>>>>> becoming a member, and this cannot be resolved through discussion,
then the
>>>>> prospective member will not be allowed membership.
>>>>> #** Unreasonable or frequent blocking of new members by an
>>>>> existing member is grounds for immediate termination of membership
based on
>>>>> a 2/3 vote.
>>>>> #* Upon completing the "Initial Pondering", such
prospective
>>>>> members must be communicated to the sudo room mailing list within 24
hours,
>>>>> including their "Declaration of Intent to Join".
>>>>> #'''Extended Pondering'''
>>>>> #* After the Initial Pondering, if there are no objections, there
>>>>> will be one week for sudo room members to raise objections as to why
the
>>>>> prospective member should not be allowed to join (referred to as the
>>>>> "Extended Pondering").
>>>>> #* If there are no objections raised during the "Extended
>>>>> Pondering", the prospective member will become a member.
>>>>> #** The intention is to provide sufficient time to ensure all
>>>>> concerns of those unable to attend the meeting may be heard.
>>>>> #* The new member will be added to the membership list and given
>>>>> access to desired and relevant assets and services of sudo room.
>>>>> #* No announcement of this change of status after the "Extended
>>>>> Pondering" is necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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15 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Gregg Horton -
Marc Juul -
Marina Kukso -
Matthew Senate -
Patrik D'haeseleer -
Phil Wolff -
Sam Tepper -
Tony Barreca