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	<id>https://sudoroom.org/mediawiki/index.php?action=history&amp;feed=atom&amp;title=Mesh%2F09_May_2013</id>
	<title>Mesh/09 May 2013 - Revision history</title>
	<link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="https://sudoroom.org/mediawiki/index.php?action=history&amp;feed=atom&amp;title=Mesh%2F09_May_2013"/>
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	<updated>2026-06-04T17:58:35Z</updated>
	<subtitle>Revision history for this page on the wiki</subtitle>
	<generator>MediaWiki 1.37.2</generator>
	<entry>
		<id>https://sudoroom.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Mesh/09_May_2013&amp;diff=4323&amp;oldid=prev</id>
		<title>Tunabananas: /* Why be on a local network? */</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://sudoroom.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Mesh/09_May_2013&amp;diff=4323&amp;oldid=prev"/>
		<updated>2013-05-16T09:52:58Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;&lt;span dir=&quot;auto&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autocomment&quot;&gt;Why be on a local network?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;table style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122;&quot; data-mw=&quot;interface&quot;&gt;
				&lt;col class=&quot;diff-marker&quot; /&gt;
				&lt;col class=&quot;diff-content&quot; /&gt;
				&lt;col class=&quot;diff-marker&quot; /&gt;
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				&lt;tr class=&quot;diff-title&quot; lang=&quot;en&quot;&gt;
				&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;← Older revision&lt;/td&gt;
				&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;Revision as of 02:52, 16 May 2013&lt;/td&gt;
				&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-lineno&quot; id=&quot;mw-diff-left-l7&quot;&gt;Line 7:&lt;/td&gt;
&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-lineno&quot;&gt;Line 7:&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;*Overcoming alienation, loss of community&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;*Overcoming alienation, loss of community&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;*Supporting local organizations and businesses&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;*Supporting local organizations and businesses&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-side-deleted&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot; data-marker=&quot;+&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;ins style=&quot;font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;&quot;&gt;*Emergency communications (natural disaster, censorship, etc)&lt;/ins&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;=Things we need=&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&quot;diff-marker&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;=Things we need=&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/table&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tunabananas</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://sudoroom.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Mesh/09_May_2013&amp;diff=4322&amp;oldid=prev</id>
		<title>Tunabananas: Created page with &quot; =Attendees=  *alex, substack, juul, yardena, jenny, miguel  =Fundamental Questions= ==Why be on a local network?== *Overcoming alienation, loss of community *Supporting local...&quot;</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://sudoroom.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Mesh/09_May_2013&amp;diff=4322&amp;oldid=prev"/>
		<updated>2013-05-16T09:52:27Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Created page with &amp;quot; =Attendees=  *alex, substack, juul, yardena, jenny, miguel  =Fundamental Questions= ==Why be on a local network?== *Overcoming alienation, loss of community *Supporting local...&amp;quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;New page&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
=Attendees= &lt;br /&gt;
*alex, substack, juul, yardena, jenny, miguel&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Fundamental Questions=&lt;br /&gt;
==Why be on a local network?==&lt;br /&gt;
*Overcoming alienation, loss of community&lt;br /&gt;
*Supporting local organizations and businesses&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Things we need=&lt;br /&gt;
*Ladder&lt;br /&gt;
*Binoculars&lt;br /&gt;
*Let's make a wishlist!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Ideas=&lt;br /&gt;
*Omnidirectional on the hilltops with directional antennae, buy 1 donate one to 510pen&lt;br /&gt;
*Mapping collective houses and apartment buildings with rooftop accesss&lt;br /&gt;
*College dorms who'd want a secure network for file-sharing&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Notes=&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;TCP/IP was designed to work over any kind of layout and not just the booming voice of the master, which is what we currently have&amp;quot; -yardena&lt;br /&gt;
*meshing protocol handles the routing&lt;br /&gt;
*master mode only useful if you want to appear as a wireless access point&lt;br /&gt;
*ARP (address resolution protocol) cache which identifies the network cards on machines&lt;br /&gt;
**^data link layer &lt;br /&gt;
*delivery is much less efficient due to needing to broadcast&lt;br /&gt;
*delivery speed is highest to its adjacent neighbors&lt;br /&gt;
*message queues through key value stores&lt;br /&gt;
*bootstrapping list&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Low Bandwidth Emergency Communications Project=&lt;br /&gt;
*talk to juul, legind or jerkey (often on irc)&lt;br /&gt;
*Played with it Sunday and Monday â€“ what kind of transmitter do we build? The cheap USB sticks don't go above 64 mHz&lt;br /&gt;
*Trying to find a cheap transmitter that can do more than 9600 baud&lt;br /&gt;
*APRS weather stations and some ham operators are already operating at that level&lt;br /&gt;
**NarrowBandFM â€“ use with 50 watt transmitters (5600?)&lt;br /&gt;
**GPS transmits position, with repeaters operated by amateurs until it reaches an internet gateway in Finland which has a map&lt;br /&gt;
**not very disaster proof, only 1200 baud  &lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;gt;1mbps OFDM (orthogonal frequency division multiplexing, similar to CDMA) modulation, which is also used for wifi â€“ spread spectrum technique that uses frequencies which are orthogonal, so you won't get any noise from the adjacent channels (less interference)&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;lt;$150 transmitter&lt;br /&gt;
*can be tuned into legal frequencies later&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;ssh is the first thing i'd want in an emergency'&lt;br /&gt;
*â†’ but most nodes are just going to be receivers&lt;br /&gt;
*49 mHz, kind of abandoned territory â€“ 49 is analog - &lt;br /&gt;
*transmit-capable SDR on new 4G devices &lt;br /&gt;
*build the transmitter, and use the audio port â€“ seeking to design that&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=relaychum: friend-to-friend darknet=&lt;br /&gt;
*https://github.com/substack/relaychum&lt;br /&gt;
*every message goes to every node, but the senders are completely anonymous (as are the recipients), *still needs crypto and signing, then a mailbox system&lt;br /&gt;
*indexdb: permanent storage in a browser&lt;br /&gt;
*compensates even on a crappy network &lt;br /&gt;
*once back online, can propagate out to the network &lt;br /&gt;
*written in node.js&lt;br /&gt;
*partition-tolerant darknet&lt;br /&gt;
*public keys from chums&lt;br /&gt;
*chum rings! and also bigger rings &lt;br /&gt;
*every node is relaying traffic, so the identity of the originator can't be traced&lt;br /&gt;
*liquid chat room&lt;br /&gt;
*inspired by homestuck comic - 'pesterchum'&lt;br /&gt;
*creating a trust network &lt;br /&gt;
*by writing it in node it can also run in browsers&lt;br /&gt;
*pushing out public keys to the network&lt;br /&gt;
**don't want that information contained in the key itself&lt;br /&gt;
**could hash the keys&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Funding=&lt;br /&gt;
*What are our costs?&lt;br /&gt;
*Routers, minimum specs:&lt;br /&gt;
**4MB+ &amp;amp; OpenWRT compatible&lt;br /&gt;
**check seattle meshnet wiki for hardware specs&lt;br /&gt;
*Router donation drive&lt;br /&gt;
*Which protocol?&lt;br /&gt;
**batman-adv vs babel vs. cjdns&lt;br /&gt;
**open-mesh.org â€“ has the documentation for batman &lt;br /&gt;
**Babel seems easier&lt;br /&gt;
**Still need to play with cjdns&lt;br /&gt;
*Captive portal&lt;br /&gt;
*Serving less than 1kb locally&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Rad Routers=&lt;br /&gt;
*WRT54G â€“ rev 2 (NOT rev 3 or 4)&lt;br /&gt;
*Asus RT n10+ series routers are highly reliable&lt;br /&gt;
*WR703N router â€“ half watt routers&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Divergence into political philosophy=&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;the whole stupid is greater than the sum of its stupids&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
*amplification of the spectacle&lt;br /&gt;
*the best response is finding alternatives to fear â€“ eg joyful emotion and communitas&lt;br /&gt;
*the generative internet rather than walled, open architecture &amp;amp; decentralized human and machine apis&lt;br /&gt;
*digital citizenship movement&lt;br /&gt;
*redefining the commons &lt;br /&gt;
*revived calia proposal&lt;br /&gt;
*destabilizing foreign governments does go hand in hand with CISPA-type proposals &lt;br /&gt;
*Border routers in Australia&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Action Items=&lt;br /&gt;
*Meshathon! (future event)&lt;br /&gt;
**Get 3 routers and get them talking to each other.&lt;br /&gt;
**Setting up a tiny mesh can take less than 4 hours&lt;br /&gt;
*David Gothberg talk, &amp;quot;Peer-to-peer Under the Hood&amp;quot;: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNzMNjW8oGs &lt;br /&gt;
*Awesome Foundation proposal to fund initial hardware&lt;br /&gt;
*Everyone should buy a router (or several) for themselves to play with&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=Next Meeting=&lt;br /&gt;
*Thursday, 5/16, 6pm @ sudo room&lt;br /&gt;
*Playing with new routers, installing OpenWRT and possibly batman-adv, babel&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Tunabananas</name></author>
	</entry>
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