[Mesh] mesh Digest, Vol 31, Issue 16
James Foley
jfoley510 at gmail.com
Tue Aug 25 13:23:32 PDT 2015
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: [sudo-discuss] Can someone please donate Cat6 Shielded
> cable? (danarauz at gmail.com)
> 2. Re: [sudo-discuss] Can someone please donate Cat6 Shielded
> cable? (danarauz at gmail.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 12:43:44 -0700
> From: "danarauz at gmail.com" <danarauz at gmail.com>
> To: max b <maxb.personal at gmail.com>
> Cc: sudo-discuss <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>,
> "mesh at lists.sudoroom.org" <mesh at lists.sudoroom.org>, Charley
> Sheets
> <rcsheets at acm.org>
> Subject: Re: [Mesh] [sudo-discuss] Can someone please donate Cat6
> Shielded cable?
> Message-ID:
> <CAPMS6zb2ApzqNP3jmAy-zd0pm0eN4yum16F883DibLzL3=
> UvSg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hey Charley,
>
>
> Many thanks for stepping forward, and about answering your valid questions.
>
> Actually Max pretty much answered the questions.
> But, I would like to add that the small room where the phone line enters
> the building has a lot of electrical cables on the ceiling and many of them
> go along in part of the path that leads to CCL-Sudoroom area.
>
> Question two, Termination:
>
> I totally understand your point about terminating cables properly.
>
> For example, Cat6A with Cat6A connectors + Cat6A Patch Panels; Shielded
> with Shielded; etc.. I brought that up when I was working on the
> Netwoork/Reboot (
> https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Network/Reboot#Wishlist_.28in_progress.29) plan.
>
> Anyhow, like Marx mentioned, this line that we are trying to run at Omni is
> a phone line, so it will terminate to a small box by the two post rack,
> close to the wall. We will be using just a punch down tool.
>
> Max, thanks for answering these questions. The only thing I would like to
> mention is that we want to stay away from CAT5, if the case is that we
> cannot have CAT6 or CAT6A type, then the minimum should be CAT5e (e for
> enhanced). (
>
> http://midwesttelephone.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Speed-comparrison2.jpg
> )
>
> Thanks!
>
> Daniel
>
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:38 AM, max b <maxb.personal at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hey Charley,
> >
> > You're more than welcome to donate money (or time) if that's more up your
> > alley. Also, if you want to donate UTP cat6, we'll take that as well. We
> > use a bunch of ethernet cable both at the omni and for other
> installations,
> > so we can always use more. If you're feeling really generous, we can
> really
> > use shielded outdoor cat5 and cat6 for installing antennas. Don't worry -
> > no matter what kind of ethernet cabling you feel like donating, we can
> > almost certainly find a use for it :)
> >
> > As for the questions you've outlined:
> >
> > First thing: shielded cable
> >
> > This isn't actually an ethernet run. It's dsl lines + phone lines running
> > over cat copper wires. As such, it's my understanding that it's more
> > sensitive to EMI disturbance. Additionally, it's much better to err on
> the
> > safe side as we'll only want to string this once and the entire network
> > communications infrastructure depends on the dsl signal that passes
> through
> > this line. As for needing shielded mating jacks, we have plenty of
> grounded
> > rj-45 connectors and with whatever other scenarios, it's pretty easy to
> > ensure that they're grounded. We're not talking about our entire network
> > infrastructure, we're just talking about this one cable run.
> >
> > Second thing: hand termination
> >
> > We're using an EZ RJ-45 crimper, which makes the process fairly
> > straightforward. We have spools of other types of ethernet cables and
> have
> > done runs throughout the building. Also - we'll be breaking out these
> pairs
> > anyhow, so most of this is fairly non standard types of termination which
> > are much easier than rj-45 disconnects.
> >
> >
> > Daniel, let us know if I missed anything here?
> >
> >
> > Max
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:01 AM, Charley Sheets <rcsheets at acm.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hey Daniel,
> >>
> >> I am interested in helping out, but I have to admit I'm fairly
> >> skeptical of two elements of this request, so I'd like to get some
> >> clarification if possible.
> >>
> >> First thing: shielded cable. My understanding is that most of the noise
> >> rejection comes from the twists, not the shielding, and that shielded
> >> cable is only useful in high-EMI environments. Am I mistaken about the
> >> application, or are we perhaps in a high-EMI environment? The standard
> >> example of high EMI is something like a factory floor. Shielding also
> >> only works as intended if the mating connectors (jacks and whatnot) are
> >> also shielded. Does that apply here? My inclination is to donate
> >> standard (UTP) cat6 cable. Please help me understand why I should
> >> donate shielded cable instead.
> >>
> >> Here is some information (could be biased -- it's from a cable
> >> supplier) about the differences as they apply to cat6a:
> >> http://mirapath.com/blog/item/cat6a-shielded-or-unshielded
> >>
> >> Second thing: hand termination. You've stated a preference for a box of
> >> several hundred feet of cable. To me that implies that you'd prefer to
> >> hand terminate the cable rather than having pre-terminated cables. I
> >> certainly won't make any claims about your personal ability to
> >> terminate cables, but most people are not especially skilled at this,
> >> and many hand terminated cables I've seen in the field are visibly not
> >> well made. I've terminated cat5 and cat5e cable, and it's always been
> >> very fiddly and challenging for me to minimize the untwisted distance,
> >> and to ensure there are no open pins. Pre-terminated cable is
> >> available with strain relief boots and is often certified to be
> >> complaint with the relevant cabling standard. What do you see as the
> >> advantage of spools of cable? Why not buy pre-terminated cable?
> >>
> >> I hope this doesn't come across as overly critical. Sorry if it does. I
> >> really just want to make sure we get exactly what we need.
> >> --
> >> Charley Sheets
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> >> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Help open a people-powered common space in Oakland, California!
> https://omnicommons.org/donate
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 12:54:44 -0700
> From: "danarauz at gmail.com" <danarauz at gmail.com>
> To: Andrew Lowe <andrew at lostways.com>
> Cc: "mesh at lists.sudoroom.org" <mesh at lists.sudoroom.org>, sudo-discuss
> <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> Subject: Re: [Mesh] [sudo-discuss] Can someone please donate Cat6
> Shielded cable?
> Message-ID:
> <CAPMS6zY_oXBMbOUzyt+PX0FoZs=
> rqKzo-Kz-5FzuC_DxfPq9EQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hey Andrew, that is awesome, many thanks!
>
> Daniel
>
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:44 AM, Andrew Lowe <andrew at lostways.com> wrote:
>
> > I have boxes of cat 6 cables to donate, and cat5e. I'll try to stop by
> > tomorrow during the day to drop them off.
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:38 AM, max b <maxb.personal at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hey Charley,
> >>
> >> You're more than welcome to donate money (or time) if that's more up
> your
> >> alley. Also, if you want to donate UTP cat6, we'll take that as well. We
> >> use a bunch of ethernet cable both at the omni and for other
> installations,
> >> so we can always use more. If you're feeling really generous, we can
> really
> >> use shielded outdoor cat5 and cat6 for installing antennas. Don't worry
> -
> >> no matter what kind of ethernet cabling you feel like donating, we can
> >> almost certainly find a use for it :)
> >>
> >> As for the questions you've outlined:
> >>
> >> First thing: shielded cable
> >>
> >> This isn't actually an ethernet run. It's dsl lines + phone lines
> running
> >> over cat copper wires. As such, it's my understanding that it's more
> >> sensitive to EMI disturbance. Additionally, it's much better to err on
> the
> >> safe side as we'll only want to string this once and the entire network
> >> communications infrastructure depends on the dsl signal that passes
> through
> >> this line. As for needing shielded mating jacks, we have plenty of
> grounded
> >> rj-45 connectors and with whatever other scenarios, it's pretty easy to
> >> ensure that they're grounded. We're not talking about our entire network
> >> infrastructure, we're just talking about this one cable run.
> >>
> >> Second thing: hand termination
> >>
> >> We're using an EZ RJ-45 crimper, which makes the process fairly
> >> straightforward. We have spools of other types of ethernet cables and
> have
> >> done runs throughout the building. Also - we'll be breaking out these
> pairs
> >> anyhow, so most of this is fairly non standard types of termination
> which
> >> are much easier than rj-45 disconnects.
> >>
> >>
> >> Daniel, let us know if I missed anything here?
> >>
> >>
> >> Max
> >>
> >> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:01 AM, Charley Sheets <rcsheets at acm.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hey Daniel,
> >>>
> >>> I am interested in helping out, but I have to admit I'm fairly
> >>> skeptical of two elements of this request, so I'd like to get some
> >>> clarification if possible.
> >>>
> >>> First thing: shielded cable. My understanding is that most of the noise
> >>> rejection comes from the twists, not the shielding, and that shielded
> >>> cable is only useful in high-EMI environments. Am I mistaken about the
> >>> application, or are we perhaps in a high-EMI environment? The standard
> >>> example of high EMI is something like a factory floor. Shielding also
> >>> only works as intended if the mating connectors (jacks and whatnot) are
> >>> also shielded. Does that apply here? My inclination is to donate
> >>> standard (UTP) cat6 cable. Please help me understand why I should
> >>> donate shielded cable instead.
> >>>
> >>> Here is some information (could be biased -- it's from a cable
> >>> supplier) about the differences as they apply to cat6a:
> >>> http://mirapath.com/blog/item/cat6a-shielded-or-unshielded
> >>>
> >>> Second thing: hand termination. You've stated a preference for a box of
> >>> several hundred feet of cable. To me that implies that you'd prefer to
> >>> hand terminate the cable rather than having pre-terminated cables. I
> >>> certainly won't make any claims about your personal ability to
> >>> terminate cables, but most people are not especially skilled at this,
> >>> and many hand terminated cables I've seen in the field are visibly not
> >>> well made. I've terminated cat5 and cat5e cable, and it's always been
> >>> very fiddly and challenging for me to minimize the untwisted distance,
> >>> and to ensure there are no open pins. Pre-terminated cable is
> >>> available with strain relief boots and is often certified to be
> >>> complaint with the relevant cabling standard. What do you see as the
> >>> advantage of spools of cable? Why not buy pre-terminated cable?
> >>>
> >>> I hope this doesn't come across as overly critical. Sorry if it does. I
> >>> really just want to make sure we get exactly what we need.
> >>> --
> >>> Charley Sheets
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> >>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> >> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > ---------
> > Andrew Lowe
> > http://www.lostways.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> > https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Help open a people-powered common space in Oakland, California!
> https://omnicommons.org/donate
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> - - - - - - - - - - - -
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