[sudo-discuss] sudo-discuss Digest, Vol 4, Issue 212
Cyrus Farivar
cfarivar at gmail.com
Thu Feb 28 13:41:00 PST 2013
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/02/oakland-mayor-apologizes-for-promoting-local-lockpicking-class/
--
Cyrus Farivar
"suh-ROOS FAR-ih-var"
Journalist and radio producer | cyrusfarivar.com (http://cyrusfarivar.com)
Author, "The Internet of Elsewhere" | internetofelsewhere.com (http://internetofelsewhere.com)
US: +1 510 394 5485 (m) | Twitter/Skype: cfarivar
"Being a good writer is 3% talent, 97% not being distracted by the Internet."
cfarivar at cfarivar.org (mailto:cfarivar at cfarivar.org)
On Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 1:16 PM, sudo-discuss-request at lists.sudoroom.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: sudo-discuss Digest, Vol 4, Issue 211 (Cyrus Farivar)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 13:16:44 -0800
> From: Cyrus Farivar <cfarivar at gmail.com (mailto:cfarivar at gmail.com)>
> To: sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] sudo-discuss Digest, Vol 4, Issue 211
> Message-ID: <058F1A7272C64F069631C24D0A06989C at gmail.com (mailto:058F1A7272C64F069631C24D0A06989C at gmail.com)>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Matt, can I quote you in the piece?
>
> --
> Cyrus Farivar
> "suh-ROOS FAR-ih-var"
>
> Journalist and radio producer | cyrusfarivar.com (http://cyrusfarivar.com)
> Author, "The Internet of Elsewhere" | internetofelsewhere.com (http://internetofelsewhere.com)
> US: +1 510 394 5485 (m) | Twitter/Skype: cfarivar
> "Being a good writer is 3% talent, 97% not being distracted by the Internet."
> cfarivar at cfarivar.org (mailto:cfarivar at cfarivar.org)
>
>
> On Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 1:15 PM, sudo-discuss-request at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss-request at lists.sudoroom.org) wrote:
>
> > Send sudo-discuss mailing list submissions to
> > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > sudo-discuss-request at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss-request at lists.sudoroom.org)
> >
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> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of sudo-discuss digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: sudo-discuss Digest, Vol 4, Issue 208 (J.D. Zamfirescu)
> > 2. Re: FUD around Lockpicking class (Matthew D. Howell)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 13:12:42 -0800
> > From: "J.D. Zamfirescu" <zamfire at gmail.com (mailto:zamfire at gmail.com)>
> > To: Matthew Senate <mattsenate at gmail.com (mailto:mattsenate at gmail.com)>
> > Cc: sudo-discuss <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)>
> > Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] sudo-discuss Digest, Vol 4, Issue 208
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAO5ydeE3UzKM27HvXKLfGpoHBpRHmi7K8sd47evaGq8_d4HD4A at mail.gmail.com (mailto:CAO5ydeE3UzKM27HvXKLfGpoHBpRHmi7K8sd47evaGq8_d4HD4A at mail.gmail.com)>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> >
> > Agreed with Matt. As TOOOL says, understanding how locks work (and what
> > their vulnerabilities are) helps everyone make smarter decisions about
> > physical security.
> >
> > Might be worth mentioning that very few burglaries involve picked locks;
> > it's too easy to throw a brick through a window instead.
> >
> > Also, for the record, the workshop is full at 20 participants.
> >
> > J.D.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 12:58 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate at gmail.com (mailto:mattsenate at gmail.com)>wrote:
> >
> > > Hey Cyrus,
> > >
> > > I think putting lock-picking in a larger context (up to globally) will
> > > help folks understand that this is a helpful and inquisitive practice that,
> > > for instance, helps improve security through experience and knowledge of
> > > security systems like locks. This statement is obvious to the security /
> > > hacker community, but not obvious to many others. For me personally, when I
> > > was living in a student cooperative, I needed to unlock a filing cabinet I
> > > bought used that came without a key. I watched a Youtube video of a
> > > 14-year-old who showed me how to do it with (I believe something like) an
> > > aluminum can and a paperclip. That was very helpful, and also exposed me to
> > > the reality that simple locks provide a nominal layer of security (just
> > > pulling open), but almost always have available exploits. I wouldn't put
> > > things I wanted to keep completely secure in that filing cabinet--but I
> > > would put things I didn't want to easily walk away.
> > >
> > > That being said, it is also important to note that this is one (I believe
> > > ~30 people, sold out) of many workshops to be held over the weekend in
> > > Oakland for http://workshopweekend.net/, and one of many events that
> > > happen at sudo room. Sudo-hosted events range from coding meetups
> > > http://www.meetup.com/EBJavaScript/ and informal learning sessions
> > > http://sudoroom.org/wiki/Today_I_Learned to local community organizing
> > > http://communitydemocracyproject.org/ and nerds who care about the
> > > environment http://nerdsfornature.org/. See more on our calendar
> > > http://sudoroom.org/calendar/ and come down this Friday during Art
> > > Murmur.
> > >
> > > // Matt
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Cyrus Farivar <cfarivar at gmail.com (mailto:cfarivar at gmail.com)>wrote:
> > >
> > > > FWIW?I'm in the process right now of writing up a short brief on
> > > > the whole thing for Ars Technica, and am pointing out how lock picking has
> > > > long been a part of hacker culture. If you have a statement, I can
> > > > include/add it.
> > > >
> > > > -C
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Cyrus Farivar
> > > > "suh-ROOS FAR-ih-var"
> > > >
> > > > Journalist and radio producer | cyrusfarivar.com (http://cyrusfarivar.com)
> > > > Author, "The Internet of Elsewhere" | internetofelsewhere.com (http://internetofelsewhere.com)
> > > > US: +1 510 394 5485 (m) | Twitter/Skype: cfarivar
> > > > "Being a good writer is 3% talent, 97% not being distracted by the
> > > > Internet."
> > > > cfarivar at cfarivar.org (mailto:cfarivar at cfarivar.org)
> > > >
> > > > On Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 12:31 PM,
> > > > sudo-discuss-request at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss-request at lists.sudoroom.org) wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Send sudo-discuss mailing list submissions to
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > >
> > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > > sudo-discuss-request at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss-request at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > >
> > > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > > sudo-discuss-owner at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss-owner at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > >
> > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > > than "Re: Contents of sudo-discuss digest..."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Today's Topics:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Re: FUD around Lockpicking class (Eddan Katz)
> > > > 2. Re: FUD around Lockpicking class (Eddan Katz)
> > > > 3. Re: FUD around Lockpicking class (Anon195714)
> > > > 4. Re: FUD around Lockpicking class (Eddan Katz)
> > > > 5. Re: FUD around Lockpicking class (Shawn Lesniak)
> > > > 6. Re: FUD around Lockpicking class (mark burdett)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Message: 1
> > > > Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:22:20 -0800
> > > > From: Eddan Katz <eddan at clear.net (mailto:eddan at clear.net)>
> > > > To: sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] FUD around Lockpicking class
> > > > Message-ID: <512FA05C.7070407 at clear.net (mailto:512FA05C.7070407 at clear.net)>
> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
> > > >
> > > > It would be worth our while for someone to draft a short statement that
> > > > can be posted on the Workshop Weekend website or as a Sudo Room blog
> > > > post. I'd be willing to help if someone did a first draft. So lame of
> > > > Jean Quan to not even look into it.
> > > >
> > > > In sum, I think there are two major elements to committing a crime - the
> > > > act itself and the intent. In order to have both, you need knowledge.
> > > > There's nothing in here about the socially positive reasons why you'd
> > > > want to teach that. Take the common experience everyone can relate to of
> > > > locking yourself out of your house, car, office, etc.. People need to
> > > > know how to pick locks most certainly in circumstances that are
> > > > authorized and often in the case of an emergency. We may want to clarify
> > > > that in regards to intent - we have the opposite motivation to teach
> > > > people these skills. It will go a long way to explicitly say that we by
> > > > no means condone the use of those skills for criminal purposes.
> > > >
> > > > We should post it and send it directly to the authors of the articles
> > > > before the end of the day, so that a further story can be written about
> > > > it. May also want to notify Susan Mernit @ Oakland Local to get a little
> > > > more fair and balanced reporting.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 2/27/13 11:20 PM, J.D. Zamfirescu wrote:
> > > >
> > > > more:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.insidebayarea.com/breaking-news/ci_22683660/oakland-mayor-jean-quan-apologizes-promoting-lock-picking
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:15 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate at gmail.com (mailto:mattsenate at gmail.com)
> > > > <mailto:mattsenate at gmail.com <mattsenate at gmail.com (mailto:mattsenate at gmail.com)>>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It's awesome, free press!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 9:40 PM, rusty lindgren
> > > > <rustylindgren at gmail.com <mailto:rustylindgren at gmail.com<rustylindgren at gmail.com (mailto:rustylindgren at gmail.com)>>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Oh dear gawd. This is possibly the most moronic piece of
> > > > "journalism" I have ever seen.
> > > >
> > > > Are they unaware of the fact that you can go to a lock-picking
> > > > school(actually it teaches you way more), and that this is
> > > > just a cheaper version of that? (see:
> > > > http://www.lock411.com/training.html).
> > > >
> > > > Also, virtually no crime in Oakland involves skilled
> > > > lock-picking, because it's a waste of time.
> > > >
> > > > Don't worry though, you can train in deadly martial arts, go
> > > > to the shooting range, and buy ninja swords just about
> > > > anywhere in Oakland, but picking a Masterlock is "appalling".
> > > >
> > > > -Rusty
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Anca Mosoiu
> > > > <anca at techliminal.com <mailto:anca at techliminal.com <anca at techliminal.com (mailto:anca at techliminal.com)>>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi everyone,
> > > >
> > > > Heads up. Looks like some folks aren't too happy that
> > > > people are learning how to pick locks this weekend.
> > > >
> > > > http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=9010047
> > > >
> > > > Here is Oakland Local's response:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://m.oaklandlocal.com/article/oaklands-mayor-quan-apologizes-mentioning-weekend-lockpicking-class-really
> > > >
> > > > Anca
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > -=-=-=-
> > > > Anca Mosoiu | Tech Liminal
> > > > anca at techliminal.com <mailto:anca at techliminal.com <anca at techliminal.com (mailto:anca at techliminal.com)>>
> > > > M: (510) 220-6660 <tel:%28510%29%20220-6660>
> > > > http://techliminal.com | T: @techliminal | F:
> > > > facebook.com/techliminal <http://facebook.com/techliminal>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > <mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org<sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > Rusty Lindgren
> > > > **
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > <mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org<sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > <mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org<sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Message: 2
> > > > Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:35:48 -0800
> > > > From: Eddan Katz <eddan at clear.net (mailto:eddan at clear.net)>
> > > > To: sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] FUD around Lockpicking class
> > > > Message-ID: <512FA384.6050105 at clear.net (mailto:512FA384.6050105 at clear.net)>
> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
> > > >
> > > > Chicago Lock v. Fanberg is the case I was telling you about last night,
> > > > J.D. - http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=17605115413487325945.
> > > > Author of lock-picking manuals gets sued by the manufacturer of the
> > > > locks. Chicago Lock loses on its trade secret misappropriation claim.
> > > > Here's an excerpt from the facts of the case -
> > > >
> > > > Appellant Victor Fanberg, the son of locksmith Morris Fanberg and a
> > > > locksmith in his own right, has published a number of locksmith
> > > > manuals for conventional locks. Realizing that no compilation had
> > > > been made of tubular lock key codes, in 1975 Fanberg advertised in a
> > > > locksmith journal,/Locksmith Ledger,/requesting that individual
> > > > locksmiths transmit to him serial number-key code correlations in
> > > > their possession in exchange for a copy of a complete compilation
> > > > when finished. A number of locksmiths complied, and in late 1976
> > > > Fanberg and his father began to sell a two-volume publication of
> > > > tubular lock codes, including those of Ace locks, entitled
> > > > "A-Advanced Locksmith's Tubular Lock Codes." In 1976 and 1977
> > > > Fanberg advertised in the manuals in the/Locksmith Ledger/for $49.95
> > > > and indicated that it would be supplemented as new correlations
> > > > became known./See/Excerpt at 95-98. About 350 manuals had been sold
> > > > at the time of trial. The District Court found that Fanberg "had
> > > > lost or surrendered control over persons who could purchase the
> > > > books,"/id./at 98, meaning that nonlocksmiths could acquire the code
> > > > manuals.
> > > >
> > > > The books contain correlations which would allow a person equipped
> > > > with a tubular key grinding machine to make duplicate keys for any
> > > > listed Ace lock if the serial number of the lock was known. On some
> > > > models, the serial numbers appear on the exterior of the lock face.
> > > > Thus, Fanberg's manuals would make it considerably easier4*403(and
> > > > less expensive) for a person to obtain (legitimately or
> > > > illegitimately) duplicate keys to Ace locks without going through
> > > > the Company's screening process. This is what caused consternation
> > > > to the Company and some of its customers. At no time did Fanberg
> > > > seek, or the Company grant, permission to compile and sell the key
> > > > codes. Nor did the individual locksmiths seek authorization from the
> > > > Company or their customers before transmitting their key code data
> > > > to Fanberg.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 2/27/13 11:20 PM, J.D. Zamfirescu wrote:
> > > >
> > > > more:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.insidebayarea.com/breaking-news/ci_22683660/oakland-mayor-jean-quan-apologizes-promoting-lock-picking
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:15 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate at gmail.com (mailto:mattsenate at gmail.com)
> > > > <mailto:mattsenate at gmail.com <mattsenate at gmail.com (mailto:mattsenate at gmail.com)>>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It's awesome, free press!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 9:40 PM, rusty lindgren
> > > > <rustylindgren at gmail.com <mailto:rustylindgren at gmail.com<rustylindgren at gmail.com (mailto:rustylindgren at gmail.com)>>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Oh dear gawd. This is possibly the most moronic piece of
> > > > "journalism" I have ever seen.
> > > >
> > > > Are they unaware of the fact that you can go to a lock-picking
> > > > school(actually it teaches you way more), and that this is
> > > > just a cheaper version of that? (see:
> > > > http://www.lock411.com/training.html).
> > > >
> > > > Also, virtually no crime in Oakland involves skilled
> > > > lock-picking, because it's a waste of time.
> > > >
> > > > Don't worry though, you can train in deadly martial arts, go
> > > > to the shooting range, and buy ninja swords just about
> > > > anywhere in Oakland, but picking a Masterlock is "appalling".
> > > >
> > > > -Rusty
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Anca Mosoiu
> > > > <anca at techliminal.com <mailto:anca at techliminal.com <anca at techliminal.com (mailto:anca at techliminal.com)>>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi everyone,
> > > >
> > > > Heads up. Looks like some folks aren't too happy that
> > > > people are learning how to pick locks this weekend.
> > > >
> > > > http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=9010047
> > > >
> > > > Here is Oakland Local's response:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://m.oaklandlocal.com/article/oaklands-mayor-quan-apologizes-mentioning-weekend-lockpicking-class-really
> > > >
> > > > Anca
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > -=-=-=-
> > > > Anca Mosoiu | Tech Liminal
> > > > anca at techliminal.com <mailto:anca at techliminal.com <anca at techliminal.com (mailto:anca at techliminal.com)>>
> > > > M: (510) 220-6660 <tel:%28510%29%20220-6660>
> > > > http://techliminal.com | T: @techliminal | F:
> > > > facebook.com/techliminal <http://facebook.com/techliminal>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > <mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org<sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > Rusty Lindgren
> > > > **
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > <mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org<sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > <mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org<sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
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> > > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > > URL: <
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130228/ffd03295/attachment-0001.html
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Message: 3
> > > > Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:06:24 -0800
> > > > From: Anon195714 <anon195714 at sbcglobal.net (mailto:anon195714 at sbcglobal.net)>
> > > > To: Eddan Katz <eddan at clear.net (mailto:eddan at clear.net)>
> > > > Cc: sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] FUD around Lockpicking class
> > > > Message-ID: <512FAAB0.7030205 at sbcglobal.net (mailto:512FAAB0.7030205 at sbcglobal.net)>
> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Eddan-
> > > >
> > > > So was Ace asserting some kind of copyright or other IP control over the
> > > > correlations between the key codes and the locks? That's funny: like
> > > > copyrighting the names & numbers in the phone book;-)
> > > >
> > > > What kind of lawful right would Ace have had to control those codes? I
> > > > don't see any.
> > > >
> > > > Classic case of "security by obscurity" in the face of the data being
> > > > openly available to anyone who just looks. That plus Ace not having
> > > > adequate steps in place to verify the identity of people asking for
> > > > duplicate keys ("security by laziness";-). (As if any burglar is going
> > > > to order keys and wait a week to get them, when smashing a window
> > > > provides instant gratification?)
> > > >
> > > > Meanwhile, it's since been demonstrated that Ace locks and other tubular
> > > > locks of same size, are tremendously easy to pick with a tool anyone can
> > > > make from a Bic pen housing.
> > > >
> > > > To my mind the main value of learning to pick locks is to become more
> > > > aware of one's own security environment: particularly the degree to
> > > > which we very often depend on crappy locks, and then, with the
> > > > newly-acquired situational awareness about locks, the degree to which we
> > > > very often leave open all manner of other security holes in our physical
> > > > surroundings. Nothing says "replace your front door lock now!" like
> > > > being able to pick it with two paper clips in less than a minute. And
> > > > then you look at the big window right next to the front door... and the
> > > > un-shredded bills you put in the recycle bin with your name & account
> > > > numbers all over them... and the valuables in the back seat of your
> > > > car... etc.
> > > >
> > > > Next is the ability to get into places one has auth to be in: such as
> > > > when one locks oneself out of one's own house or car (or in my case, PBX
> > > > room on client site after hours, blush...).
> > > >
> > > > Equally is the ability to do likewise for friends (have done that a
> > > > handful of times).
> > > >
> > > > And from that, the generalization to our entire subculture, of the
> > > > degree of security awareness we should have all the time.
> > > >
> > > > Picking locks is like being able to disassemble, clean, and reassemble a
> > > > firearm: that skill does not make a law-abiding person start
> > > > contemplating committing murders. But it might make one start to think
> > > > more about personal safety on the streets at night.
> > > >
> > > > Lastly, I'll fess up to something. I think it's cool as hell when
> > > > people who ordinarily hack around with software, start hacking around
> > > > with _mechanical_ stuff. I'm bigtime in favor of people learning how to
> > > > hack around with _mechanical_ stuff. "Physical layer" as new
> > > > playground. To this list add your home appliances (the ones with motors
> > > > in 'em) and rotary dial phones, but that's another topic for another day.
> > > >
> > > > TTYs-
> > > >
> > > > -G.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > =====
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 13-02-28-Thu 10:35 AM, Eddan Katz wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Chicago Lock v. Fanberg is the case I was telling you about last
> > > > night, J.D. -
> > > > http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=17605115413487325945.
> > > > Author of lock-picking manuals gets sued by the manufacturer of the
> > > > locks. Chicago Lock loses on its trade secret misappropriation claim.
> > > > Here's an excerpt from the facts of the case -
> > > >
> > > > Appellant Victor Fanberg, the son of locksmith Morris Fanberg and
> > > > a locksmith in his own right, has published a number of locksmith
> > > > manuals for conventional locks. Realizing that no compilation had
> > > > been made of tubular lock key codes, in 1975 Fanberg advertised in
> > > > a locksmith journal, /Locksmith Ledger,/ requesting that
> > > > individual locksmiths transmit to him serial number-key code
> > > > correlations in their possession in exchange for a copy of a
> > > > complete compilation when finished. A number of locksmiths
> > > > complied, and in late 1976 Fanberg and his father began to sell a
> > > > two-volume publication of tubular lock codes, including those of
> > > > Ace locks, entitled "A-Advanced Locksmith's Tubular Lock Codes."
> > > > In 1976 and 1977 Fanberg advertised in the manuals in
> > > > the /Locksmith Ledger/ for $49.95 and indicated that it would be
> > > > supplemented as new correlations became known. /See/ Excerpt at
> > > > 95-98. About 350 manuals had been sold at the time of trial. The
> > > > District Court found that Fanberg "had lost or surrendered control
> > > > over persons who could purchase the books," /id./ at 98, meaning
> > > > that nonlocksmiths could acquire the code manuals.
> > > >
> > > > The books contain correlations which would allow a person equipped
> > > > with a tubular key grinding machine to make duplicate keys for any
> > > > listed Ace lock if the serial number of the lock was known. On
> > > > some models, the serial numbers appear on the exterior of the lock
> > > > face. Thus, Fanberg's manuals would make it considerably
> > > > easier4*403 (and less expensive) for a person to obtain
> > > > (legitimately or illegitimately) duplicate keys to Ace locks
> > > > without going through the Company's screening process. This is
> > > > what caused consternation to the Company and some of its
> > > > customers. At no time did Fanberg seek, or the Company grant,
> > > > permission to compile and sell the key codes. Nor did the
> > > > individual locksmiths seek authorization from the Company or their
> > > > customers before transmitting their key code data to Fanberg.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 2/27/13 11:20 PM, J.D. Zamfirescu wrote:
> > > >
> > > > more:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.insidebayarea.com/breaking-news/ci_22683660/oakland-mayor-jean-quan-apologizes-promoting-lock-picking
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:15 PM, Matthew Senate
> > > > <mattsenate at gmail.com <mailto:mattsenate at gmail.com <mattsenate at gmail.com (mailto:mattsenate at gmail.com)>>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It's awesome, free press!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 9:40 PM, rusty lindgren
> > > > <rustylindgren at gmail.com <mailto:rustylindgren at gmail.com<rustylindgren at gmail.com (mailto:rustylindgren at gmail.com)>>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Oh dear gawd. This is possibly the most moronic piece of
> > > > "journalism" I have ever seen.
> > > >
> > > > Are they unaware of the fact that you can go to a
> > > > lock-picking school(actually it teaches you way more), and
> > > > that this is just a cheaper version of that? (see:
> > > > http://www.lock411.com/training.html).
> > > >
> > > > Also, virtually no crime in Oakland involves skilled
> > > > lock-picking, because it's a waste of time.
> > > >
> > > > Don't worry though, you can train in deadly martial arts, go
> > > > to the shooting range, and buy ninja swords just about
> > > > anywhere in Oakland, but picking a Masterlock is "appalling".
> > > >
> > > > -Rusty
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Anca Mosoiu
> > > > <anca at techliminal.com <mailto:anca at techliminal.com <anca at techliminal.com (mailto:anca at techliminal.com)>>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi everyone,
> > > >
> > > > Heads up. Looks like some folks aren't too happy that
> > > > people are learning how to pick locks this weekend.
> > > >
> > > > http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=9010047
> > > >
> > > > Here is Oakland Local's response:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://m.oaklandlocal.com/article/oaklands-mayor-quan-apologizes-mentioning-weekend-lockpicking-class-really
> > > >
> > > > Anca
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > -=-=-=-
> > > > Anca Mosoiu | Tech Liminal
> > > > anca at techliminal.com <mailto:anca at techliminal.com <anca at techliminal.com (mailto:anca at techliminal.com)>>
> > > > M: (510) 220-6660 <tel:%28510%29%20220-6660>
> > > > http://techliminal.com | T: @techliminal | F:
> > > > facebook.com/techliminal <http://facebook.com/techliminal>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > <mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org<sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > Rusty Lindgren
> > > > **
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > <mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org<sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > <mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org<sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > > URL: <
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130228/b776beff/attachment-0001.html
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Message: 4
> > > > Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:22:28 -0800
> > > > From: Eddan Katz <eddan at clear.net (mailto:eddan at clear.net)>
> > > > To: Anon195714 <anon195714 at sbcglobal.net (mailto:anon195714 at sbcglobal.net)>
> > > > Cc: "sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)"
> > > > <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)>
> > > > Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] FUD around Lockpicking class
> > > > Message-ID: <53E0AF57-F2E7-4B85-A7F6-825D45B24A58 at clear.net (mailto:53E0AF57-F2E7-4B85-A7F6-825D45B24A58 at clear.net)>
> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > > >
> > > > They threw everything they could at him, and in the lower court, the
> > > > Trademark over the name (& logo?) of the company stuck a bit, but was a
> > > > loser. The trade secret claim, which is under state unfair competition law,
> > > > was decided in favor of the lock company. Fanberg appealed. This is the
> > > > opinion from the appellate court reversing the lower court's decision that
> > > > Fanberg had misappropriated trade secrets.
> > > >
> > > > In order to qualify as a trade secret, you need only have confidential
> > > > stamps on it or physical barrier to secure the what-not. Encrypting
> > > > something would be a partial de facto way of asserting trade secret
> > > > protection, most definitely. What counts as eligible to be protected as
> > > > trade secrets? Most accurately vague definition I can think of is know-how.
> > > > People often associate it with "the secret sauce" in Coke, Big Macs, etc..
> > > > Many of you may have come across it in your employment agreement laying out
> > > > what you can't take with you when you leave.
> > > >
> > > > sent from eddan.com (http://eddan.com)
> > > >
> > > > On Feb 28, 2013, at 11:06 AM, Anon195714 <anon195714 at sbcglobal.net (mailto:anon195714 at sbcglobal.net)>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Eddan-
> > > >
> > > > So was Ace asserting some kind of copyright or other IP control over the
> > > > correlations between the key codes and the locks? That's funny: like
> > > > copyrighting the names & numbers in the phone book;-)
> > > >
> > > > What kind of lawful right would Ace have had to control those codes? I
> > > > don't see any.
> > > >
> > > > Classic case of "security by obscurity" in the face of the data being
> > > > openly available to anyone who just looks. That plus Ace not having
> > > > adequate steps in place to verify the identity of people asking for
> > > > duplicate keys ("security by laziness";-). (As if any burglar is going to
> > > > order keys and wait a week to get them, when smashing a window provides
> > > > instant gratification?)
> > > >
> > > > Meanwhile, it's since been demonstrated that Ace locks and other tubular
> > > > locks of same size, are tremendously easy to pick with a tool anyone can
> > > > make from a Bic pen housing.
> > > >
> > > > To my mind the main value of learning to pick locks is to become more
> > > > aware of one's own security environment: particularly the degree to which
> > > > we very often depend on crappy locks, and then, with the newly-acquired
> > > > situational awareness about locks, the degree to which we very often leave
> > > > open all manner of other security holes in our physical surroundings.
> > > > Nothing says "replace your front door lock now!" like being able to pick it
> > > > with two paper clips in less than a minute. And then you look at the big
> > > > window right next to the front door... and the un-shredded bills you put in
> > > > the recycle bin with your name & account numbers all over them... and the
> > > > valuables in the back seat of your car... etc.
> > > >
> > > > Next is the ability to get into places one has auth to be in: such as
> > > > when one locks oneself out of one's own house or car (or in my case, PBX
> > > > room on client site after hours, blush...).
> > > >
> > > > Equally is the ability to do likewise for friends (have done that a
> > > > handful of times).
> > > >
> > > > And from that, the generalization to our entire subculture, of the degree
> > > > of security awareness we should have all the time.
> > > >
> > > > Picking locks is like being able to disassemble, clean, and reassemble a
> > > > firearm: that skill does not make a law-abiding person start contemplating
> > > > committing murders. But it might make one start to think more about
> > > > personal safety on the streets at night.
> > > >
> > > > Lastly, I'll fess up to something. I think it's cool as hell when people
> > > > who ordinarily hack around with software, start hacking around with
> > > > _mechanical_ stuff. I'm bigtime in favor of people learning how to hack
> > > > around with _mechanical_ stuff. "Physical layer" as new playground. To this
> > > > list add your home appliances (the ones with motors in 'em) and rotary dial
> > > > phones, but that's another topic for another day.
> > > >
> > > > TTYs-
> > > >
> > > > -G.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > =====
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 13-02-28-Thu 10:35 AM, Eddan Katz wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Chicago Lock v. Fanberg is the case I was telling you about last night,
> > > > J.D. - http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=17605115413487325945.
> > > > Author of lock-picking manuals gets sued by the manufacturer of the
> > > > locks. Chicago Lock loses on its trade secret misappropriation claim.
> > > > Here's an excerpt from the facts of the case -
> > > >
> > > > Appellant Victor Fanberg, the son of locksmith Morris Fanberg and a
> > > > locksmith in his own right, has published a number of locksmith manuals for
> > > > conventional locks. Realizing that no compilation had been made of tubular
> > > > lock key codes, in 1975 Fanberg advertised in a locksmith journal,
> > > > Locksmith Ledger, requesting that individual locksmiths transmit to him
> > > > serial number-key code correlations in their possession in exchange for a
> > > > copy of a complete compilation when finished. A number of locksmiths
> > > > complied, and in late 1976 Fanberg and his father began to sell a
> > > > two-volume publication of tubular lock codes, including those of Ace locks,
> > > > entitled "A-Advanced Locksmith's Tubular Lock Codes." In 1976 and 1977
> > > > Fanberg advertised in the manuals in the Locksmith Ledger for $49.95 and
> > > > indicated that it would be supplemented as new correlations became known.
> > > > See Excerpt at 95-98. About 350 manuals had been sold at the time of trial.
> > > > The District Court found that Fanberg "had lost or
> > > >
> > > > surrendered control over persons who could purchase the books," id. at
> > > > 98, meaning that nonlocksmiths could acquire the code manuals.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The books contain correlations which would allow a person equipped with a
> > > > tubular key grinding machine to make duplicate keys for any listed Ace lock
> > > > if the serial number of the lock was known. On some models, the serial
> > > > numbers appear on the exterior of the lock face. Thus, Fanberg's manuals
> > > > would make it considerably easier4*403 (and less expensive) for a person to
> > > > obtain (legitimately or illegitimately) duplicate keys to Ace locks without
> > > > going through the Company's screening process. This is what caused
> > > > consternation to the Company and some of its customers. At no time did
> > > > Fanberg seek, or the Company grant, permission to compile and sell the key
> > > > codes. Nor did the individual locksmiths seek authorization from the
> > > > Company or their customers before transmitting their key code data to
> > > > Fanberg.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 2/27/13 11:20 PM, J.D. Zamfirescu wrote:
> > > >
> > > > more:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.insidebayarea.com/breaking-news/ci_22683660/oakland-mayor-jean-quan-apologizes-promoting-lock-picking
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:15 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate at gmail.com (mailto:mattsenate at gmail.com)>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It's awesome, free press!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 9:40 PM, rusty lindgren <rustylindgren at gmail.com (mailto:rustylindgren at gmail.com)>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Oh dear gawd. This is possibly the most moronic piece of "journalism" I
> > > > have ever seen.
> > > >
> > > > Are they unaware of the fact that you can go to a lock-picking
> > > > school(actually it teaches you way more), and that this is just a cheaper
> > > > version of that? (see: http://www.lock411.com/training.html).
> > > >
> > > > Also, virtually no crime in Oakland involves skilled lock-picking,
> > > > because it's a waste of time.
> > > >
> > > > Don't worry though, you can train in deadly martial arts, go to the
> > > > shooting range, and buy ninja swords just about anywhere in Oakland, but
> > > > picking a Masterlock is "appalling".
> > > >
> > > > -Rusty
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Anca Mosoiu <anca at techliminal.com (mailto:anca at techliminal.com)>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi everyone,
> > > >
> > > > Heads up. Looks like some folks aren't too happy that people are learning
> > > > how to pick locks this weekend.
> > > >
> > > > http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=9010047
> > > >
> > > > Here is Oakland Local's response:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://m.oaklandlocal.com/article/oaklands-mayor-quan-apologizes-mentioning-weekend-lockpicking-class-really
> > > >
> > > > Anca
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > -=-=-=-
> > > > Anca Mosoiu | Tech Liminal
> > > > anca at techliminal.com (mailto:anca at techliminal.com)
> > > > M: (510) 220-6660
> > > > http://techliminal.com | T: @techliminal | F: facebook.com/techliminal (http://facebook.com/techliminal)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > Rusty Lindgren
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > > URL: <
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130228/b3b9fea7/attachment-0001.html
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Message: 5
> > > > Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:49:45 -0800
> > > > From: Shawn Lesniak <moderkaka at gmail.com (mailto:moderkaka at gmail.com)>
> > > > Cc: sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] FUD around Lockpicking class
> > > > Message-ID: <512FB4D9.6070402 at gmail.com (mailto:512FB4D9.6070402 at gmail.com)>
> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > >
> > > > On 2013-02-28 01:13, Anon195714 wrote:>
> > > >
> > > > Re. Shawn:
> > > >
> > > > In no way am I suggesting that we start "working with the city or law
> > > > enforcement officers on reporting who shows up at events or assist them
> > > > in doing so," any more than the radical Quakers did.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I don't know anything about the radical Quakers and they are in no way a
> > > > litmus test for the right amount of cooperation with law enforcement.
> > > > You are in favor of undercover officers at sudoroom events. I am
> > > > uncomfortable with that in any amount.
> > > >
> > > > What I _am_ advocating is to open the lines of communication and point
> > > > out that if the city is truly concerned about badguys showing up, they
> > > > can send someone along to hang out and observe for themselves. What
> > > > they're going to see is a room full of geeks learning an oldschool
> > > > mechanical skill. More likely they won't bother, in which case their
> > > > objection can be dismissed as meaningless.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The term city is ambiguous here. The mayor endorsed it at some level,
> > > > then some of her constituents were concerned. Some other people signed
> > > > up for the class. Oakland is a diverse city.
> > > >
> > > > The city government in cooperation with law enforcement is deeply afraid
> > > > of anarchists. What happens when they look into it further and realize
> > > > several known anarchists congregate at sudoroom? Maybe you don't care
> > > > because you're not an anarchist, and I'm hesitant to air out my
> > > > 'anarchist' credentials, but I've been beaten by Oakland police for
> > > > being a suspected anarchist. I'm not comfortable with inviting anyone
> > > > in for surveillance.
> > > > In addition, whether 'known gang members' are likely to show up or not,
> > > > the laws are no different for them than for us. If it were my class,
> > > > and someone told me to only teach white people or people without tattoos
> > > > or people who aren't wearing black shirts or any other restrictions, I'd
> > > > tell them to fuck off and if I caught anyone surveilling them I'd kick
> > > > them out.
> > > > Safe space to me means no LE in sudoroom, uniformed or undercover.
> > > >
> > > > As for comparing "'known gang member'" to "the more privileged class":
> > > > that's postmodern BS. The #1 killer of young black men in Oakland isn't
> > > > police bullets but gang bullets. So where are the outraged protests in
> > > > front of known gang enclaves, eh? This isn't an abstraction: a young
> > > > black man I knew was killed in a drive-by. As for "privileged class,"
> > > > about 1/3 of SudoRoom members are unemployed, and many are
> > > > borderline-homeless. A few more "privileges," such as full-time jobs
> > > > that pay decent wages, would be a good thing.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You don't have to kill someone to ruin their lives. Go out to East
> > > > Oakland and ask a few people what their experience with LE is. Sit in a
> > > > courtroom in Oakland for 2 hours and see what people are in jail for.
> > > > I've seen people spend 2 days in jail for riding their bike on the
> > > > sidewalk, which can lose you a job.
> > > > I've had a cop roll up on me aggressively while I was wearing a hood and
> > > > then immediately changed his demeanor when he saw I was white and let me
> > > > go. Life is different for PoC in Oakland. I've seen it myself and I've
> > > > spent the time talking to people who are affected.
> > > >
> > > > This is why I fight to keep schools open, to improve access to resources
> > > > for everyone. You close a school, you open a jail. You open a school,
> > > > you close a jail.
> > > >
> > > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> > > > Name: signature.asc
> > > > Type: application/pgp-signature
> > > > Size: 946 bytes
> > > > Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
> > > > URL: <
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130228/eb819dff/attachment-0001.pgp
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Message: 6
> > > > Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:31:08 -0800
> > > > From: mark burdett <mark at 510pen.org (mailto:mark at 510pen.org)>
> > > > To: Anon195714 <anon195714 at sbcglobal.net (mailto:anon195714 at sbcglobal.net)>
> > > > Cc: sudo-discuss <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)>
> > > > Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] FUD around Lockpicking class
> > > > Message-ID:
> > > > <CALd=3MLX5DcFU3ThT3dzmCyiQu9OyJSS=mSoB73kRO0dpEvdxw at mail.gmail.com (mailto:mSoB73kRO0dpEvdxw at mail.gmail.com)>
> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> > > >
> > > > No one is really inviting a detective, right? there are lots of reasons
> > > > not
> > > > to. like, I assume many of us have a policy of only talking to LE w/ our
> > > > lawyers..
> > > >
> > > > The "fundamentals of armed robbery" workshop suggested in the articles
> > > > could be quite informative! "fundamentals of computer fraud and abuse"
> > > > could be interesting too, although according to
> > > >
> > > > https://data.oaklandnet.com/Public-Safety/CrimeWatch-Maps-Past-90-Days/ym6k-rx7a
> > > > there
> > > > is quite a lot of robbery going on, hardly any "ACCESS COMPUTER/ALTER/ETC
> > > > DATA:DEVISE SCHEME/ETC DEFRAUD/ETC"
> > > >
> > > > --mark B.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:52 PM, Anon195714 <anon195714 at sbcglobal.net (mailto:anon195714 at sbcglobal.net)
> > > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yo's-
> > > >
> > > > On the other hand, the Mayor could send along a plain-clothes detective to
> > > > hang out and keep an eye open for known gang members etc. "Just say
> > > > Honeypot!", and we're doing the city a favor.
> > > >
> > > > OK, so a few recent crime anecdotes:
> > > >
> > > > = A close friend's car window was smashed on the side street while we were
> > > > up at SudoRoom.
> > > > = Another close friend's bike was stolen out of the common area.
> > > > = A neighbor of mine's bike was stolen out of their garage today.
> > > > = The officer who took the stolen bike report (Berkeley PD) said that the
> > > > standard MO these days is for the robber to knock at the door, and if no
> > > > answer, kick the door in. If the resident is away it becomes a burglary.
> > > > If the resident is home, it becomes a home-invasion robbery or worse.
> > > > = As another close friend of mine once said, "doors are a convenience for
> > > > people who are polite." A strong lock on a strong door with a weak window
> > > > nearby, is evidence of nothing more or less than a homeowner without the
> > > > ability to imagine how baddies think.
> > > >
> > > > I don't see any lock-picking going on in any of those. As a method of
> > > > committing crimes, lock-picking is obsolete.
> > > >
> > > > And I do see an opportunity for some positive outreach to Mayor Quan's
> > > > office, re. the opportunity for having a detective attend the event. This
> > > > would be similar to how Quaker activist groups handled their plans for
> > > > protests, by keeping the relevant LE agencies informed. When I lived in
> > > > New England, I saw this first-hand, and it worked. Protests organized by
> > > > those groups were successful, every time.
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone here have good relations with anyone in Oakland city gov, and
> > > > want to volunteer to get the lines of communication open?
> > > >
> > > > -G.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > =====
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 13-02-27-Wed 11:26 PM, Tommy York wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "OAKLAND -- One skill that appears all too common in Oakland these days
> > > > is the ability to pick a lock. Burglaries jumped more than 40 percent last
> > > > year, and not all of them involved window smashes."
> > > >
> > > > This is a horrific excuse for journalism. Not all burglaries involved
> > > > window smashes? Oh really? And in that case, how many involved skilled
> > > > lock
> > > > picking?
> > > >
> > > > Mencken would be angry.
> > > >
> > > > - tommy
> > > > -----------------
> > > > Thomas Riley York (???) 510.926.0510
> > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/tommyyork
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:20 PM, J.D. Zamfirescu <zamfire at gmail.com (mailto:zamfire at gmail.com)
> > > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > more:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.insidebayarea.com/breaking-news/ci_22683660/oakland-mayor-jean-quan-apologizes-promoting-lock-picking
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:15 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate at gmail.com (mailto:mattsenate at gmail.com)
> > > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It's awesome, free press!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 9:40 PM, rusty lindgren <rustylindgren at gmail.com (mailto:rustylindgren at gmail.com)
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Oh dear gawd. This is possibly the most moronic piece of "journalism"
> > > > I have ever seen.
> > > >
> > > > Are they unaware of the fact that you can go to a lock-picking
> > > > school(actually it teaches you way more), and that this is just a cheaper
> > > > version of that? (see: http://www.lock411.com/training.html).
> > > >
> > > > Also, virtually no crime in Oakland involves skilled lock-picking,
> > > > because it's a waste of time.
> > > >
> > > > Don't worry though, you can train in deadly martial arts, go to the
> > > > shooting range, and buy ninja swords just about anywhere in Oakland, but
> > > > picking a Masterlock is "appalling".
> > > >
> > > > -Rusty
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Anca Mosoiu <anca at techliminal.com (mailto:anca at techliminal.com)>wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi everyone,
> > > >
> > > > Heads up. Looks like some folks aren't too happy that people are
> > > > learning how to pick locks this weekend.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=9010047
> > > >
> > > > Here is Oakland Local's response:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://m.oaklandlocal.com/article/oaklands-mayor-quan-apologizes-mentioning-weekend-lockpicking-class-really
> > > >
> > > > Anca
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > -=-=-=-
> > > > Anca Mosoiu | Tech Liminal
> > > > anca at techliminal.com (mailto:anca at techliminal.com)
> > > > M: (510) 220-6660 <%28510%29%20220-6660>
> > > > http://techliminal.com | T: @techliminal | F: facebook.com/techliminal (http://facebook.com/techliminal)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > Rusty Lindgren
> > > > **
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing listsudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.orghttp (mailto:listsudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.orghttp)://
> > > > lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss (http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > > URL: <
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130228/92793c0e/attachment.html
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > End of sudo-discuss Digest, Vol 4, Issue 208
> > > > ********************************************
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > >
> >
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130228/ff94f409/attachment-0001.html>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 13:13:29 -0800
> > From: "Matthew D. Howell" <matthewdhowell at gmail.com (mailto:matthewdhowell at gmail.com)>
> > To: mark burdett <mark at 510pen.org (mailto:mark at 510pen.org)>
> > Cc: sudo-discuss <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)>
> > Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] FUD around Lockpicking class
> > Message-ID:
> > <CA+-a-1nnEruK19Mte4dBUGi=wNWfF9Z695PJ2m447=20SYCGWw at mail.gmail.com (mailto:20SYCGWw at mail.gmail.com)>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > I can come and act like a detective.. I have no experience, but I
> > have picked some locks before. Haha this thread is amusing me today,
> > thanks
> > <3
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? >8
> > /V\ /-\ + + |?| ? \/\/ ? ? ?
> > ???????????????????????????????????
> > Matthew D. Howell
> > misterinterrupt, tHe M4d swiTcH, the RuinMechanic
> > cell: (617) 755-1481
> > ???????????????????????????????????
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 12:31 PM, mark burdett <mark at 510pen.org (mailto:mark at 510pen.org)> wrote:
> > > No one is really inviting a detective, right? there are lots of reasons not
> > > to. like, I assume many of us have a policy of only talking to LE w/ our
> > > lawyers..
> > >
> > > The "fundamentals of armed robbery" workshop suggested in the articles could
> > > be quite informative! "fundamentals of computer fraud and abuse" could be
> > > interesting too, although according to
> > > https://data.oaklandnet.com/Public-Safety/CrimeWatch-Maps-Past-90-Days/ym6k-rx7a
> > > there is quite a lot of robbery going on, hardly any "ACCESS
> > > COMPUTER/ALTER/ETC DATA:DEVISE SCHEME/ETC DEFRAUD/ETC"
> > >
> > > --mark B.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:52 PM, Anon195714 <anon195714 at sbcglobal.net (mailto:anon195714 at sbcglobal.net)>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yo's-
> > > >
> > > > On the other hand, the Mayor could send along a plain-clothes detective to
> > > > hang out and keep an eye open for known gang members etc. "Just say
> > > > Honeypot!", and we're doing the city a favor.
> > > >
> > > > OK, so a few recent crime anecdotes:
> > > >
> > > > = A close friend's car window was smashed on the side street while we were
> > > > up at SudoRoom.
> > > > = Another close friend's bike was stolen out of the common area.
> > > > = A neighbor of mine's bike was stolen out of their garage today.
> > > > = The officer who took the stolen bike report (Berkeley PD) said that the
> > > > standard MO these days is for the robber to knock at the door, and if no
> > > > answer, kick the door in. If the resident is away it becomes a burglary.
> > > > If the resident is home, it becomes a home-invasion robbery or worse.
> > > > = As another close friend of mine once said, "doors are a convenience for
> > > > people who are polite." A strong lock on a strong door with a weak window
> > > > nearby, is evidence of nothing more or less than a homeowner without the
> > > > ability to imagine how baddies think.
> > > >
> > > > I don't see any lock-picking going on in any of those. As a method of
> > > > committing crimes, lock-picking is obsolete.
> > > >
> > > > And I do see an opportunity for some positive outreach to Mayor Quan's
> > > > office, re. the opportunity for having a detective attend the event. This
> > > > would be similar to how Quaker activist groups handled their plans for
> > > > protests, by keeping the relevant LE agencies informed. When I lived in New
> > > > England, I saw this first-hand, and it worked. Protests organized by those
> > > > groups were successful, every time.
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone here have good relations with anyone in Oakland city gov, and
> > > > want to volunteer to get the lines of communication open?
> > > >
> > > > -G.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > =====
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 13-02-27-Wed 11:26 PM, Tommy York wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "OAKLAND -- One skill that appears all too common in Oakland these days is
> > > > the ability to pick a lock. Burglaries jumped more than 40 percent last
> > > > year, and not all of them involved window smashes."
> > > >
> > > > This is a horrific excuse for journalism. Not all burglaries involved
> > > > window smashes? Oh really? And in that case, how many involved skilled lock
> > > > picking?
> > > >
> > > > Mencken would be angry.
> > > >
> > > > - tommy
> > > > -----------------
> > > > Thomas Riley York (???) 510.926.0510
> > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/tommyyork
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:20 PM, J.D. Zamfirescu <zamfire at gmail.com (mailto:zamfire at gmail.com)>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > more:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.insidebayarea.com/breaking-news/ci_22683660/oakland-mayor-jean-quan-apologizes-promoting-lock-picking
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:15 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate at gmail.com (mailto:mattsenate at gmail.com)>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It's awesome, free press!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 9:40 PM, rusty lindgren
> > > > > > <rustylindgren at gmail.com (mailto:rustylindgren at gmail.com)> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Oh dear gawd. This is possibly the most moronic piece of "journalism"
> > > > > > > I have ever seen.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Are they unaware of the fact that you can go to a lock-picking
> > > > > > > school(actually it teaches you way more), and that this is just a cheaper
> > > > > > > version of that? (see: http://www.lock411.com/training.html).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also, virtually no crime in Oakland involves skilled lock-picking,
> > > > > > > because it's a waste of time.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Don't worry though, you can train in deadly martial arts, go to the
> > > > > > > shooting range, and buy ninja swords just about anywhere in Oakland, but
> > > > > > > picking a Masterlock is "appalling".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -Rusty
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Anca Mosoiu <anca at techliminal.com (mailto:anca at techliminal.com)>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi everyone,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Heads up. Looks like some folks aren't too happy that people are
> > > > > > > > learning how to pick locks this weekend.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=9010047
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Here is Oakland Local's response:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://m.oaklandlocal.com/article/oaklands-mayor-quan-apologizes-mentioning-weekend-lockpicking-class-really
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anca
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > -=-=-=-
> > > > > > > > Anca Mosoiu | Tech Liminal
> > > > > > > > anca at techliminal.com (mailto:anca at techliminal.com)
> > > > > > > > M: (510) 220-6660
> > > > > > > > http://techliminal.com | T: @techliminal | F: facebook.com/techliminal (http://facebook.com/techliminal)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > > > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > > > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Rusty Lindgren
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >
> >
> > End of sudo-discuss Digest, Vol 4, Issue 211
> > ********************************************
> >
>
>
>
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> _______________________________________________
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> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org (mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org)
> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
>
> End of sudo-discuss Digest, Vol 4, Issue 212
> ********************************************
>
>
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