[sudo-discuss] [HELP] Oak Tech teacher requests space 6hrs/1x/month **starting Sunday**

[William Budington]

I don't want to assume ill intent of the teacher herself, and I don't want to assume she is trying to mislead us.  I think that the avenues of funding are extremely limited for Oakland's public schools, and meanwhile the USAF and Northrop Grumman are all too eager to find desperate youth and offer them a 'future' that turns them into killing machines.  But we may have an actual opportunity to talk to the teacher and offer her some alternatives for the students, and actually wrench such an event from the hands of the military industrial complex.  Wouldn't it be beautiful if we had a fundraiser for youth from this school that want to work on cool hacking projects (Oakland Wiki?)

I think there are a multitude of ways to create an alternative event for these kids, in a way that doesn't say to the teacher "flip off we don't want your event here" but actually has a positive spin that cuts the USAF out of the loop.  We've actually already been talking about creating a Sudo-Teens, and I think this would perfectly riff off of that project.  As it happens, my partner actually works for OUSD and is in a unique position to bridge our goals and theirs, and will be getting in contact with the teacher herself to propose alternatives.  What do you all think? 

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:13:41 +0000, Hol Gaskill wrote:
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> Northrop Grumman is historically, and still almost entirely an arms manufacturer.  What if we had United Launch Alliance wanting to sponsor a rocketry program for kids?  Where do we draw the perimeter around our organization?  Google?  PG&E?  Taqueria Sinaloa?  I think there are a few no-brainers both ways, and a vast expanse of grey area.  Maybe we could have 2 levels of association for events - events that are endorsed by the group wholeheartedly and have no substantial conflicts of interest, and events where there is no question of value to the intended benefit recipients but some members have reservations about what it would imply if we were perceived to be associated as a group.  Like, can't be added to the website or announced via sudo social media nodes, can't use our logo in their documentation of the event, etc.  I think the comment about going over with the kids themselves about what sponsorship implies is spot on, maybe give us an opportunity to teach them about all the patriots that have overthrown their own governments for the better, the patriots that resist foreign occupation aaand i'll stop there.
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> Also, this particular event aside, the initial feedback seems to indicate that George is OK with some form of highschool-age kids participating at sudo room which could extend our educational value to the community.  There is this program where HS students share time on cube sats - I'm trying to get a team formed at my high school in San Antonio, would be awesome if we could get some students from Oakland in on it.  Pretty basic stuff, just writing software to flash up there and read sensors, then 'up'load the data back to earth.  No warheads or anything.
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> Oct 14, 2013 10:06:19 AM, di.franco at gmail.com wrote:
> I share the desire to be critical of and proceed carefully with associations with military-sponsored events.
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> I think it will be important for us to hear directly from the kids if possible since they have by far the most to gain or lose in this question: How do they view the sponsorship of the contest, what do they hope to get from participating in the contest, what do they hope to gain from being at sudo room (if we will have them)?
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> >On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 1:34 AM, Marc Juul juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
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> >On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 12:25 AM, Vicky Knox vknoxsironi at gmail.com> wrote:
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> >Marc's response is justified, though I reject the language of the two opening questions. 
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> My conversation over the phone with Vivienne lead me to believe that she was participating in a competition organized by her school and I didn't carefully scan the email explanation that she sent me afterward to send to the list. I am really down about my oversight and apologize for it.
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> I did learn the details of the competition's funding when she and a colleague came to see the space and pick up the key the night before their practice, and at that point I processed the explanation of the sponsorship much differently than Marc. 
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> >While she is not happy about the sponsor, Vivienne's justification of pursuing this event was that this was a great opportunity for her students to get a hold of resources and a learning environment they would otherwise not have had. She wanted to be able to do this event at a hackerspace because her ultimate goal was to use this competition as a bridge to connect to a critical, hacker community (for what this bridge is worth, given the obvious discrepancy). I felt at once uneasy and understanding. I respect the sentiment that she expressed that she needed to take the opportunity that was there, just as I am not quick to jump to judgment of many of my bright and fascinating friends back home who were in a position in which they (felt that they?) needed to join the military in order to realistically afford higher education. That said, I stand with Marc in my rejection of the military industrial complex (or whatever you would like to call it), but I do not know the answer to more nuanced questions of access to aspirational education within a race-class divided society. I invite your conversation. 
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> This is not a question of access to aspirational education within a race-class divided society. The problem I'm having is that you (and possibly others?) decided to facilitate something called The Air Force Association's CyberPatriot Competition, with Northrop Grumman as sponsor, with some form of association to sudo room. Whatever your personal decision-making process was, you must have realized that at least some members would strongly disagree with that decision, yet you moved forward with short warning and without directly bringing the controversial topic in front of the group for discussion and decision. This should have been taken up at the weekly meeting. The fact that it was not obvious to you that this event was controversial enough to warrant serious group discussion before proceeding is problematic.
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> If Marc or anyone else would like to bring up this topic at the general meeting, I could not make it this Wednesday but am available the following.
> I will be there.
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> Vicky
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> On Oct 13, 2013 7:31 PM, "Marc Juul" juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
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> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Vicky Knox vknoxsironi at gmail.com> wrote:
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> >Do you all have any recommendations on how to expedite this? What is the current status of the large room and using it for  events? 
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> >For background, this teacher origianally contacted info at sudoroom but never got a response, and called the SR number today, slightly frantic. I think it would be really awesome if we were able to help her out. This event seems quite an incredible opportunity for young people.
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> >What? What have you been smoking?
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> >The Air Force Association's CyberPatriot? Sponsored by Northrop Grumman?! Why are people assuming that this is something sudo room wants to support or in any way encourage? 
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> >This sounds terrible. I am going to take this up at this Wednesdays 
> sudo room meeting. I am completely against anything like this happening 
> in or near sudo room in any way shape or form. I do not believe I am 
> alone in feeling like this. I am both surprised and very disappointed 
> that a critical and sceptical approach was not taken in dealing with 
> something like this on behalf of sudo room.
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> >-- 
> >Marc
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> >
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