[sudo-discuss] sudo-discuss Digest, Vol 12, Issue 21
Romy Ilano
romy at snowyla.com
Mon Oct 14 20:35:01 PDT 2013
the discussion about the military sponsored stuff is a no-brainer. not
consistent with sudoroom values...
On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 4:02 PM, <sudo-discuss-request at lists.sudoroom.org>wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: [HELP] Oak Tech teacher requests space 6hrs/1x/month
> **starting Sunday** (Vicky Knox)
> 2. Re: [HELP] Oak Tech teacher requests space 6hrs/1x/month
> **starting Sunday** (Vicky Knox)
> 3. Re: [HELP] Oak Tech teacher requests space 6hrs/1x/month
> **starting Sunday** (Marc Juul)
> 4. Re: [HELP] Oak Tech teacher requests space 6hrs/1x/month
> **starting Sunday** (Anthony Di Franco)
> 5. Re: [HELP] Oak Tech teacher requests space 6hrs/1x/month
> **starting Sunday** (Hol Gaskill)
> 6. Re: Breaking: Oakland to lead country in diverting
> anti-terror funding to ubiquitous warrantless surveillance
> (David Keenan)
> 7. Re: Can BAPS share SUDO table at Anarchist Bookfair?
> (David Keenan)
> 8. Re: Can BAPS share SUDO table at Anarchist Bookfair?
> (Gregg Horton)
> 9. Re: [HELP] Oak Tech teacher requests space 6hrs/1x/month
> **starting Sunday** (William Budington)
> 10. Re: [HELP] Oak Tech teacher requests space 6hrs/1x/month
> **starting Sunday** (Julio Rios)
> 11. George says "Rent is late. If not paid by Oct 15 3pm, then 5%
> late fee". (Max Klein)
> 12. Re: George says "Rent is late. If not paid by Oct 15 3pm,
> then 5% late fee". (Jenny Ryan)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 00:25:00 -0700
> From: Vicky Knox <vknoxsironi at gmail.com>
> To: juul at labitat.dk, Sudo Room discuss
> <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] [HELP] Oak Tech teacher requests space
> 6hrs/1x/month **starting Sunday**
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAPwEF4poQp3XqrRkw3OgZLpGpctgq-KroZdhF36L2GcMAnobTg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Marc's response is justified, though I reject the language of the two
> opening questions.
>
> My conversation over the phone with Vivienne lead me to believe that she
> was participating in a competition organized by her school and I didn't
> carefully scan the email explanation that she sent me afterward to send to
> the list. I am really down about my oversight and apologize for it.
>
> I did learn the details of the competition's funding when she and a
> colleague came to see the space and pick up the key the night before their
> practice, and at that point I processed the explanation of the sponsorship
> much differently than Marc. While she is not happy about the sponsor,
> Vivienne's justification of pursuing this event was that this was a great
> opportunity for her students to get a hold of resources and a learning
> environment they would otherwise not have had. She wanted to be able to do
> this event at a hackerspace because her ultimate goal was to use this
> competition as a bridge to connect to a critical, hacker community (for
> what this bridge is worth, given the obvious discrepancy). I felt at once
> uneasy and understanding. I respect the sentiment that she expressed that
> she needed to take the opportunity that was there, just as I am not quick
> to jump to judgment of many of my bright and fascinating friends back home
> who were in a position in which they (felt that they?) needed to join the
> military in order to realistically afford higher education. That said, I
> stand with Marc in my rejection of the military industrial complex (or
> whatever you would like to call it), but I do not know the answer to more
> nuanced questions of access to aspirational education within a race-class
> divided society. I invite your conversation.
>
> If Marc or anyone else would like to bring up this topic at the general
> meeting, I could not make it this Wednesday but am available the following.
>
> Vicky
> On Oct 13, 2013 7:31 PM, "Marc Juul" <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Vicky Knox <vknoxsironi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Do you all have any recommendations on how to expedite this? What is the
> >> current status of the large room and using it for events?
> >>
> >> For background, this teacher origianally contacted info at sudoroom but
> >> never got a response, and called the SR number today, slightly frantic.
> I
> >> think it would be really awesome if we were able to help her out. This
> >> event seems quite an incredible opportunity for young people.
> >>
> >
> > What? What have you been smoking?
> >
> > The Air Force Association's CyberPatriot? Sponsored by Northrop
> Grumman?!Why are people assuming that this is something sudo room wants to
> support
> > or in any way encourage?
> >
> > This sounds terrible. I am going to take this up at this Wednesdays sudo
> > room meeting. I am completely against anything like this happening in or
> > near sudo room in any way shape or form. I do not believe I am alone in
> > feeling like this. I am both surprised and very disappointed that a
> > critical and sceptical approach was not taken in dealing with something
> > like this on behalf of sudo room.
> >
> > --
> > Marc
> >
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 00:29:32 -0700
> From: Vicky Knox <vknoxsironi at gmail.com>
> To: Sudo Room discuss <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>,
> juul at labitat.dk
> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] [HELP] Oak Tech teacher requests space
> 6hrs/1x/month **starting Sunday**
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAPwEF4rdpvKAR6aXP6-mHKGQFWvgd9ghczpxm_H4Wdci3-_Fiw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Three last clarifications (please ask if you need any others):
>
> 1. The program did not cover the cost of renting a space, and Vivienne did
> not pursue sponsors, but rather gathered money out-of-pocket. I did not ask
> her her reasons for raising money independently, so I cannot weigh in with
> any analysis. I could try asking her if any of you find this fact relevant.
> 2. The money she raised went straight (technically still a check in my
> possession) to George to temporarily rent the smaller dance space for just
> that Sunday.
> 3. For what it's worth, when I spoke with George about the practice, he was
> (at least at that time) amenable to having high schoolers at 2141 should
> they be equipped with signed parental waivers.
> On Oct 14, 2013 12:25 AM, "Vicky Knox" <vknoxsironi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Marc's response is justified, though I reject the language of the two
> > opening questions.
> >
> > My conversation over the phone with Vivienne lead me to believe that she
> > was participating in a competition organized by her school and I didn't
> > carefully scan the email explanation that she sent me afterward to send
> to
> > the list. I am really down about my oversight and apologize for it.
> >
> > I did learn the details of the competition's funding when she and a
> > colleague came to see the space and pick up the key the night before
> their
> > practice, and at that point I processed the explanation of the
> sponsorship
> > much differently than Marc. While she is not happy about the sponsor,
> > Vivienne's justification of pursuing this event was that this was a great
> > opportunity for her students to get a hold of resources and a learning
> > environment they would otherwise not have had. She wanted to be able to
> do
> > this event at a hackerspace because her ultimate goal was to use this
> > competition as a bridge to connect to a critical, hacker community (for
> > what this bridge is worth, given the obvious discrepancy). I felt at once
> > uneasy and understanding. I respect the sentiment that she expressed that
> > she needed to take the opportunity that was there, just as I am not quick
> > to jump to judgment of many of my bright and fascinating friends back
> home
> > who were in a position in which they (felt that they?) needed to join the
> > military in order to realistically afford higher education. That said, I
> > stand with Marc in my rejection of the military industrial complex (or
> > whatever you would like to call it), but I do not know the answer to more
> > nuanced questions of access to aspirational education within a race-class
> > divided society. I invite your conversation.
> >
> > If Marc or anyone else would like to bring up this topic at the general
> > meeting, I could not make it this Wednesday but am available the
> following.
> >
> > Vicky
> > On Oct 13, 2013 7:31 PM, "Marc Juul" <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Vicky Knox <vknoxsironi at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>> Do you all have any recommendations on how to expedite this? What is
> the
> >>> current status of the large room and using it for events?
> >>>
> >>> For background, this teacher origianally contacted info at sudoroom but
> >>> never got a response, and called the SR number today, slightly
> frantic. I
> >>> think it would be really awesome if we were able to help her out. This
> >>> event seems quite an incredible opportunity for young people.
> >>>
> >>
> >> What? What have you been smoking?
> >>
> >> The Air Force Association's CyberPatriot? Sponsored by Northrop
> Grumman?!Why are people assuming that this is something sudo room wants to
> support
> >> or in any way encourage?
> >>
> >> This sounds terrible. I am going to take this up at this Wednesdays sudo
> >> room meeting. I am completely against anything like this happening in or
> >> near sudo room in any way shape or form. I do not believe I am alone in
> >> feeling like this. I am both surprised and very disappointed that a
> >> critical and sceptical approach was not taken in dealing with something
> >> like this on behalf of sudo room.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Marc
> >>
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
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> http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20131014/697b8217/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 01:34:48 -0700
> From: Marc Juul <juul at labitat.dk>
> To: Vicky Knox <vknoxsironi at gmail.com>
> Cc: Sudo Room discuss <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] [HELP] Oak Tech teacher requests space
> 6hrs/1x/month **starting Sunday**
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAL4ejvSV3vQkXH2pXLpdgNgMbZhZ-WHvSjANK6PHB91tZnDcRA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 12:25 AM, Vicky Knox <vknoxsironi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Marc's response is justified, though I reject the language of the two
> > opening questions.
> >
> > My conversation over the phone with Vivienne lead me to believe that she
> > was participating in a competition organized by her school and I didn't
> > carefully scan the email explanation that she sent me afterward to send
> to
> > the list. I am really down about my oversight and apologize for it.
> >
> > I did learn the details of the competition's funding when she and a
> > colleague came to see the space and pick up the key the night before
> their
> > practice, and at that point I processed the explanation of the
> sponsorship
> > much differently than Marc.
> >
>
>
> > While she is not happy about the sponsor, Vivienne's justification of
> > pursuing this event was that this was a great opportunity for her
> students
> > to get a hold of resources and a learning environment they would
> otherwise
> > not have had. She wanted to be able to do this event at a hackerspace
> > because her ultimate goal was to use this competition as a bridge to
> > connect to a critical, hacker community (for what this bridge is worth,
> > given the obvious discrepancy). I felt at once uneasy and understanding.
> I
> > respect the sentiment that she expressed that she needed to take the
> > opportunity that was there, just as I am not quick to jump to judgment of
> > many of my bright and fascinating friends back home who were in a
> position
> > in which they (felt that they?) needed to join the military in order to
> > realistically afford higher education. That said, I stand with Marc in my
> > rejection of the military industrial complex (or whatever you would like
> to
> > call it), but I do not know the answer to more nuanced questions of
> access
> > to aspirational education within a race-class divided society. I invite
> > your conversation.
> >
> This is not a question of access to aspirational education within a
> race-class divided society. The problem I'm having is that you (and
> possibly others?) decided to facilitate something called The Air Force
> Association's CyberPatriot Competition, with Northrop Grumman as sponsor,
> with some form of association to sudo room. Whatever your personal
> decision-making process was, you must have realized that at least some
> members would strongly disagree with that decision, yet you moved forward
> with short warning and without directly bringing the controversial topic in
> front of the group for discussion and decision. This should have been taken
> up at the weekly meeting. The fact that it was not obvious to you that this
> event was controversial enough to warrant serious group discussion before
> proceeding is problematic.
>
> > If Marc or anyone else would like to bring up this topic at the general
> > meeting, I could not make it this Wednesday but am available the
> following.
> >
> I will be there.
>
>
> > Vicky
> > On Oct 13, 2013 7:31 PM, "Marc Juul" <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Vicky Knox <vknoxsironi at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>> Do you all have any recommendations on how to expedite this? What is
> the
> >>> current status of the large room and using it for events?
> >>>
> >>> For background, this teacher origianally contacted info at sudoroom but
> >>> never got a response, and called the SR number today, slightly
> frantic. I
> >>> think it would be really awesome if we were able to help her out. This
> >>> event seems quite an incredible opportunity for young people.
> >>>
> >>
> >> What? What have you been smoking?
> >>
> >> The Air Force Association's CyberPatriot? Sponsored by Northrop
> Grumman?!Why are people assuming that this is something sudo room wants to
> support
> >> or in any way encourage?
> >>
> >> This sounds terrible. I am going to take this up at this Wednesdays sudo
> >> room meeting. I am completely against anything like this happening in or
> >> near sudo room in any way shape or form. I do not believe I am alone in
> >> feeling like this. I am both surprised and very disappointed that a
> >> critical and sceptical approach was not taken in dealing with something
> >> like this on behalf of sudo room.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Marc
> >>
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20131014/e1bfdeb4/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 10:05:53 -0700
> From: Anthony Di Franco <di.franco at gmail.com>
> To: Marc Juul <juul at labitat.dk>
> Cc: Vicky Knox <vknoxsironi at gmail.com>, Sudo Room discuss
> <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] [HELP] Oak Tech teacher requests space
> 6hrs/1x/month **starting Sunday**
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAOJkv1r9ZiUkUrTvmOqU4syZwwQns0c6-cessof0smxy4u4N+Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I share the desire to be critical of and proceed carefully with
> associations with military-sponsored events.
> I think it will be important for us to hear directly from the kids if
> possible since they have by far the most to gain or lose in this question:
> How do they view the sponsorship of the contest, what do they hope to get
> from participating in the contest, what do they hope to gain from being at
> sudo room (if we will have them)?
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 1:34 AM, Marc Juul <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 12:25 AM, Vicky Knox <vknoxsironi at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Marc's response is justified, though I reject the language of the two
> >> opening questions.
> >>
> >> My conversation over the phone with Vivienne lead me to believe that she
> >> was participating in a competition organized by her school and I didn't
> >> carefully scan the email explanation that she sent me afterward to send
> to
> >> the list. I am really down about my oversight and apologize for it.
> >>
> >> I did learn the details of the competition's funding when she and a
> >> colleague came to see the space and pick up the key the night before
> their
> >> practice, and at that point I processed the explanation of the
> sponsorship
> >> much differently than Marc.
> >>
> >
> >
> >> While she is not happy about the sponsor, Vivienne's justification of
> >> pursuing this event was that this was a great opportunity for her
> students
> >> to get a hold of resources and a learning environment they would
> otherwise
> >> not have had. She wanted to be able to do this event at a hackerspace
> >> because her ultimate goal was to use this competition as a bridge to
> >> connect to a critical, hacker community (for what this bridge is worth,
> >> given the obvious discrepancy). I felt at once uneasy and
> understanding. I
> >> respect the sentiment that she expressed that she needed to take the
> >> opportunity that was there, just as I am not quick to jump to judgment
> of
> >> many of my bright and fascinating friends back home who were in a
> position
> >> in which they (felt that they?) needed to join the military in order to
> >> realistically afford higher education. That said, I stand with Marc in
> my
> >> rejection of the military industrial complex (or whatever you would
> like to
> >> call it), but I do not know the answer to more nuanced questions of
> access
> >> to aspirational education within a race-class divided society. I invite
> >> your conversation.
> >>
> > This is not a question of access to aspirational education within a
> > race-class divided society. The problem I'm having is that you (and
> > possibly others?) decided to facilitate something called The Air Force
> > Association's CyberPatriot Competition, with Northrop Grumman as sponsor,
> > with some form of association to sudo room. Whatever your personal
> > decision-making process was, you must have realized that at least some
> > members would strongly disagree with that decision, yet you moved forward
> > with short warning and without directly bringing the controversial topic
> in
> > front of the group for discussion and decision. This should have been
> taken
> > up at the weekly meeting. The fact that it was not obvious to you that
> this
> > event was controversial enough to warrant serious group discussion before
> > proceeding is problematic.
> >
> >> If Marc or anyone else would like to bring up this topic at the general
> >> meeting, I could not make it this Wednesday but am available the
> following.
> >>
> > I will be there.
> >
> >
> >> Vicky
> >> On Oct 13, 2013 7:31 PM, "Marc Juul" <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Vicky Knox <vknoxsironi at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Do you all have any recommendations on how to expedite this? What is
> >>>> the current status of the large room and using it for events?
> >>>>
> >>>> For background, this teacher origianally contacted info at sudoroom but
> >>>> never got a response, and called the SR number today, slightly
> frantic. I
> >>>> think it would be really awesome if we were able to help her out. This
> >>>> event seems quite an incredible opportunity for young people.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> What? What have you been smoking?
> >>>
> >>> The Air Force Association's CyberPatriot? Sponsored by Northrop
> >>> Grumman?! Why are people assuming that this is something sudo room
> >>> wants to support or in any way encourage?
> >>>
> >>> This sounds terrible. I am going to take this up at this Wednesdays
> sudo
> >>> room meeting. I am completely against anything like this happening in
> or
> >>> near sudo room in any way shape or form. I do not believe I am alone in
> >>> feeling like this. I am both surprised and very disappointed that a
> >>> critical and sceptical approach was not taken in dealing with something
> >>> like this on behalf of sudo room.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Marc
> >>>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
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> URL: <
> http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20131014/83196fc4/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:13:41 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Hol Gaskill <hol at gaskill.com>
> To: di.franco at gmail.com
> Cc: vknoxsironi at gmail.com, sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] [HELP] Oak Tech teacher requests space
> 6hrs/1x/month **starting Sunday**
> Message-ID: <1501999678.29738.1381774421665.JavaMail.mail at webmail09>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>
> Northrop Grumman is historically, and still almost entirely an arms
> manufacturer. What if we had United Launch Alliance wanting to sponsor a
> rocketry program for kids? Where do we draw the perimeter around our
> organization? Google? PG&E? Taqueria Sinaloa? I think there are a few
> no-brainers both ways, and a vast expanse of grey area. Maybe we could
> have 2 levels of association for events - events that are endorsed by the
> group wholeheartedly and have no substantial conflicts of interest, and
> events where there is no question of value to the intended benefit
> recipients but some members have reservations about what it would imply if
> we were perceived to be associated as a group. Like, can't be added to the
> website or announced via sudo social media nodes, can't use our logo in
> their documentation of the event, etc. I think the comment about going
> over with the kids themselves about what sponsorship implies is spot on,
> maybe give us an opportunity to teach them about all the pa
> triots that have overthrown their own governments for the better, the
> patriots that resist foreign occupation aaand i'll stop there.
>
> Also, this particular event aside, the initial feedback seems to indicate
> that George is OK with some form of highschool-age kids participating at
> sudo room which could extend our educational value to the community. There
> is this program where HS students share time on cube sats - I'm trying to
> get a team formed at my high school in San Antonio, would be awesome if we
> could get some students from Oakland in on it. Pretty basic stuff, just
> writing software to flash up there and read sensors, then 'up'load the data
> back to earth. No warheads or anything.
>
> Oct 14, 2013 10:06:19 AM, di.franco at gmail.com wrote:
> I share the desire to be critical of and proceed carefully with
> associations with military-sponsored events.
> >
>
> I think it will be important for us to hear directly from the kids if
> possible since they have by far the most to gain or lose in this question:
> How do they view the sponsorship of the contest, what do they hope to get
> from participating in the contest, what do they hope to gain from being at
> sudo room (if we will have them)?
> >
>
>
> >
> >On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 1:34 AM, Marc Juul juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
> >
>
>
> >On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 12:25 AM, Vicky Knox vknoxsironi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
>
>
>
> >Marc's response is justified, though I reject the language of the two
> opening questions.
>
>
>
>
> My conversation over the phone with Vivienne lead me to believe that she
> was participating in a competition organized by her school and I didn't
> carefully scan the email explanation that she sent me afterward to send to
> the list. I am really down about my oversight and apologize for it.
>
>
>
>
>
> I did learn the details of the competition's funding when she and a
> colleague came to see the space and pick up the key the night before their
> practice, and at that point I processed the explanation of the sponsorship
> much differently than Marc.
>
>
>
> ?
> >While she is not happy about the sponsor, Vivienne's justification of
> pursuing this event was that this was a great opportunity for her students
> to get a hold of resources and a learning environment they would otherwise
> not have had. She wanted to be able to do this event at a hackerspace
> because her ultimate goal was to use this competition as a bridge to
> connect to a critical, hacker community (for what this bridge is worth,
> given the obvious discrepancy). I felt at once uneasy and understanding. I
> respect the sentiment that she expressed that she needed to take the
> opportunity that was there, just as I am not quick to jump to judgment of
> many of my bright and fascinating friends back home who were in a position
> in which they (felt that they?) needed to join the military in order to
> realistically afford higher education. That said, I stand with Marc in my
> rejection of the military industrial complex (or whatever you would like to
> call it), but I do not know the answer to more nuan
> ced questions of access to aspirational education within a race-class
> divided society. I invite your conversation.
>
>
>
> This is not a question of access to aspirational education within a
> race-class divided society. The problem I'm having is that you (and
> possibly others?) decided to facilitate something called The Air Force
> Association's CyberPatriot Competition, with Northrop Grumman as sponsor,
> with some form of association to sudo room. Whatever your personal
> decision-making process was, you must have realized that at least some
> members would strongly disagree with that decision, yet you moved forward
> with short warning and without directly bringing the controversial topic in
> front of the group for discussion and decision. This should have been taken
> up at the weekly meeting. The fact that it was not obvious to you that this
> event was controversial enough to warrant serious group discussion before
> proceeding is problematic.
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
> If Marc or anyone else would like to bring up this topic at the general
> meeting, I could not make it this Wednesday but am available the following.
> I will be there.
> >
>
> ?
> >
>
> Vicky
>
> On Oct 13, 2013 7:31 PM, "Marc Juul" juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Vicky Knox vknoxsironi at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Do you all have any recommendations on how to expedite this? What is the
> current status of the large room and using it for? events?
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >For background, this teacher origianally contacted info at sudoroom but
> never got a response, and called the SR number today, slightly frantic. I
> think it would be really awesome if we were able to help her out. This
> event seems quite an incredible opportunity for young people.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >What? What have you been smoking?
> >
> >The Air Force Association's CyberPatriot? Sponsored by Northrop Grumman?!
> Why are people assuming that this is something sudo room wants to support
> or in any way encourage?
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >This sounds terrible. I am going to take this up at this Wednesdays
> sudo room meeting. I am completely against anything like this happening
> in or near sudo room in any way shape or form. I do not believe I am
> alone in feeling like this. I am both surprised and very disappointed
> that a critical and sceptical approach was not taken in dealing with
> something like this on behalf of sudo room.
> >
> >--
> >Marc
> >
>
>
> >
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >
> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> >
> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >
>
> >
> >
>
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >sudo-discuss mailing list
> >sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> >http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 11:37:26 -0700
> From: David Keenan <dkeenan44 at gmail.com>
> To: "sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org"
> <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Breaking: Oakland to lead country in
> diverting anti-terror funding to ubiquitous warrantless
> surveillance
> Message-ID:
> <
> CABhLtjwtG_erxgTArKWMy_QELRw-egbH6EBRdkn4vJ0pbu2VKA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> this DAC shit is totally out of control. We have to start working on making
> the enormous problems it represents visible to everyone.
>
> I'd like it we could fold activism & awareness around the DAC into the
> cryptoparty, or have a cryptoparty around brainstorming how to tackle this
> issue locally.
>
> Solidarity,
> david
>
> On Sunday, October 13, 2013, GtwoG PublicOhOne wrote:
>
> >
> > Re. the police using Facebook and Google, and Stephen Spiker's question
> > "what happens when someone doesn't like me and has access to all that
> > information?":
> >
> > Right now 41% of employers use Facebook to screen job applicants and
> > monitor employees. That creates an _enormous_ chilling effect on speech.
> >
> > And, credit agencies are also using Facebook to assign
> > creditworthiness-by-association. If your "friends" have bad credit, your
> > own credit rating goes down. That creates an _enormous_ chilling effect
> on
> > freedom of association.
> >
> > With all the anarchists, left-libertarians, and civil liberties hawks
> > onboard here, where's the outrage about those abuses?
> >
> > Or have we become smug in our status as geeks, whose economics are secure
> > even if we wear the circle-A flag into the office and into job
> interviews?
> > Do we care about Joe Average Worker whose job may be dangling by a
> thread,
> > whose boss may be a diehard Fox Newz enthusiast, and who might end up
> > unemployed and out in the streets for voicing an "unpopular" opinion
> > online...?
> >
> > Is that a paradigm example of why Marxists consider the "intelligentsia"
> > to be an unreliable class as far as solidarity with workers is concerned?
> > Are we better than that?, or not?
> >
> > --
> >
> > The primary difference between NSA and Google is that you can vote for
> > NSA's boss every four years, but Google has better marketing.
> >
> > The root issue is _collection_. Data that aren't collected, can't be
> > abused. If you're on Facebook, if you use GMail or Google Voice, or if
> you
> > carry around a "smart" phone with a battery that can't be removed, you're
> > already subjected to a degree of surveillance that NSA reserves for
> members
> > of Al Qaeda.
> >
> > If you don't like the Oakland Police getting access to the data, the
> place
> > to start is with the mega-corps that collect the data. Complaining about
> > the police using data that huge corporations collect, without complaining
> > about the mega-corps collecting the data, is a self-contradiction.
> >
> > Lastly, shot-spotters shouldn't be controversial, even among those of us
> > who support the personal rights interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. A
> > gunshot on a city street means one of two things: a criminal has just
> shot
> > a victim, or a criminal's would-be victim has just shot their attacker in
> > self-defense. Either of those things merits getting the police and
> > paramedics on the scene, pronto.
> >
> > -G.
> >
> >
> > =====
> >
> >
> >
> > On 13-10-13-Sun 7:13 PM, Eddan Katz wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/14/technology/privacy-fears-as-surveillance-grows-in-cities.html
> <
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/14/technology/privacy-fears-as-surveillance-grows-in-cities.html?_r=0
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > October 13, 2013
> > **Privacy Fears as Surveillance Grows in Cities** ** By SOMINI SENGUPTA<
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/somini_sengupta/index.html
> >
> > ****
> > ****
> >
> > OAKLAND, Calif. ? Federal grants of $7 million awarded to this city were
> > meant largely to help thwart terror attacks<
> http://aapa.files.cms-plus.com/PDFs/FY2009PSGPGuidanceFINAL.pdf> at
> > its bustling port. But instead, the money is going to a police initiative
> > that will collect and analyze reams of surveillance data from around
> town ?
> > from gunshot-detection sensors in the barrios of East Oakland to license
> > plate readers mounted on police cars patrolling the city?s upscale hills.
> >
> > The new system, scheduled to begin next summer, is the latest example of
> > how cities are compiling and processing large amounts of information,
> known
> > as big data, for routine law enforcement. And the system underscores how
> > technology has enabled the tracking of people in many aspects of life.
> >
> > The police can monitor a fire hose of social media posts to look for
> > evidence of criminal activities; transportation agencies can track
> > commuters? toll payments when drivers use an electronic pass; and the
> > National Security Agency, as news reports this summer revealed, scooped
> up
> > telephone records of millions of cellphone customers in the United
> States.
> >
> > Like the Oakland effort, other pushes to use new surveillance tools in
> law
> > enforcement are supported with federal dollars. The New York Police
> > Department, aided by federal financing, has a big data system that links
> > 3,000 surveillance cameras with license plate readers, radiation sensors,
> > criminal databases and terror suspect lists. Police in Massachusetts have
> > used federal money to buy automated license plate scanners. And police in
> > Texas have bought a drone with homeland security money, something that
> > Alameda County, which Oakland is part of, also tried but shelved after
> > public protest.
> >
> > Proponents of the Oakland initiative, formally known as the <
> http://oaklandwiki.org/Domain_Awareness_Center/_files/Port%20of%20Oakland%20DAC%20Report.pdf/_info/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sudo-discuss mailing listsudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org<javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', '
> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org');>
> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >
> >
> >
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 11:40:07 -0700
> From: David Keenan <dkeenan44 at gmail.com>
> To: "sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org"
> <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Can BAPS share SUDO table at Anarchist
> Bookfair?
> Message-ID:
> <CABhLtjyubjb=
> bio9g_PGa6GdMtA-e2D+gXVk8vv+W6vga1DtSA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> BAPS is super happy that we can share SUDO's table..thank you! YES!!
> David
>
> On Sunday, October 13, 2013, Jenny Ryan wrote:
>
> > Totally down! I replied in Gregg's thread that it would be grand to share
> > a space with BAPS, and also lolspace if they're interested :)
> >
> > Jenny
> > http://jennyryan.net
> > http://thepyre.org
> > http://thevirtualcampfire.org
> > http://technomadic.tumblr.com
> >
> > `~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
> > "Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
> > -Laurie Anderson
> >
> > "Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining
> it."
> > -Hannah Arendt
> >
> > "To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
> > -St?phane Mallarm?
> > ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 10:04 PM, William Budington <bill at inputoutput.io<javascript:_e({},
> 'cvml', 'bill at inputoutput.io');>
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> Hey David,
> >>
> >> That sucks! It's been a few days and I haven't heard any objections,
> >> and I think it would be wonderful if BAPS shared a table with Sudo. I
> >> think this means "yes" unless anyone feels the overwhelming need to
> >> block?
> >>
> >> Bill
> >>
> >> On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 11:58:30 -0700, David Keenan wrote:
> >> > hey guys,
> >> >
> >> > Public School just found out apparently there is no room for us this
> >> year
> >> > at the Bookfair.. strange! And very sad!
> >> >
> >> > Is there any way the Public School might squish into the SUDO table at
> >> the
> >> > bookfair super ultra pretty pleaze?
> >> >
> >> > sadness,
> >> > David
> >>
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > sudo-discuss mailing list
> >> > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> >> 'sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org');>
> >> > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> >> 'sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org');>
> >> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>
> >>
> >
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 11:46:52 -0700
> From: Gregg Horton <greggahorton at gmail.com>
> To: David Keenan <dkeenan44 at gmail.com>
> Cc: "sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org"
> <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Can BAPS share SUDO table at Anarchist
> Bookfair?
> Message-ID: <525C3C1C.5030701 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> As an organizer of the bookfair, i should express we have a bit of an
> issue with the sharing of tables.
>
> it is not up to any of the tablers to decide who shares a table with
> them. if they're willing to share a table then they should let us know
> because there are other people who requested first. We want to make
> sure that anarchist projects get prioritized.
>
>
>
> On Mon Oct 14 11:40:07 2013, David Keenan wrote:
> > BAPS is super happy that we can share SUDO's table..thank you! YES!!
> > David
> >
> > On Sunday, October 13, 2013, Jenny Ryan wrote:
> >
> > Totally down! I replied in Gregg's thread that it would be grand
> > to share a space with BAPS, and also lolspace if they're interested
> :)
> >
> > Jenny
> > http://jennyryan.net <http://jennyryan.net/>
> > http://thepyre.org <http://thepyre.org/>
> > http://thevirtualcampfire.org <http://thevirtualcampfire.org/>
> > http://technomadic.tumblr.com <http://technomadic.tumblr.com/>
> >
> > `~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
> > "Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
> > -Laurie Anderson
> >
> > "Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of
> > defining it."
> > -Hannah Arendt
> >
> > "To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
> > -St?phane Mallarm?
> > ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 10:04 PM, William Budington
> > <bill at inputoutput.io <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> > 'bill at inputoutput.io');>> wrote:
> >
> > Hey David,
> >
> > That sucks! It's been a few days and I haven't heard any
> > objections,
> > and I think it would be wonderful if BAPS shared a table with
> > Sudo. I
> > think this means "yes" unless anyone feels the overwhelming
> > need to
> > block?
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 11:58:30 -0700, David Keenan wrote:
> > > hey guys,
> > >
> > > Public School just found out apparently there is no room for
> > us this year
> > > at the Bookfair.. strange! And very sad!
> > >
> > > Is there any way the Public School might squish into the
> > SUDO table at the
> > > bookfair super ultra pretty pleaze?
> > >
> > > sadness,
> > > David
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> > 'sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org');>
> > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> > 'sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org');>
> > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 14:11:46 -0700
> From: William Budington <bill at inputoutput.io>
> To: sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] [HELP] Oak Tech teacher requests space
> 6hrs/1x/month **starting Sunday**
> Message-ID: <20131014211145.GA13025 at legind-ThinkPad-X1-Carbon>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I don't want to assume ill intent of the teacher herself, and I don't want
> to assume she is trying to mislead us. I think that the avenues of funding
> are extremely limited for Oakland's public schools, and meanwhile the USAF
> and Northrop Grumman are all too eager to find desperate youth and offer
> them a 'future' that turns them into killing machines. But we may have an
> actual opportunity to talk to the teacher and offer her some alternatives
> for the students, and actually wrench such an event from the hands of the
> military industrial complex. Wouldn't it be beautiful if we had a
> fundraiser for youth from this school that want to work on cool hacking
> projects (Oakland Wiki?)
>
> I think there are a multitude of ways to create an alternative event for
> these kids, in a way that doesn't say to the teacher "flip off we don't
> want your event here" but actually has a positive spin that cuts the USAF
> out of the loop. We've actually already been talking about creating a
> Sudo-Teens, and I think this would perfectly riff off of that project. As
> it happens, my partner actually works for OUSD and is in a unique position
> to bridge our goals and theirs, and will be getting in contact with the
> teacher herself to propose alternatives. What do you all think?
>
> On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:13:41 +0000, Hol Gaskill wrote:
> >
> > Northrop Grumman is historically, and still almost entirely an arms
> manufacturer. What if we had United Launch Alliance wanting to sponsor a
> rocketry program for kids? Where do we draw the perimeter around our
> organization? Google? PG&E? Taqueria Sinaloa? I think there are a few
> no-brainers both ways, and a vast expanse of grey area. Maybe we could
> have 2 levels of association for events - events that are endorsed by the
> group wholeheartedly and have no substantial conflicts of interest, and
> events where there is no question of value to the intended benefit
> recipients but some members have reservations about what it would imply if
> we were perceived to be associated as a group. Like, can't be added to the
> website or announced via sudo social media nodes, can't use our logo in
> their documentation of the event, etc. I think the comment about going
> over with the kids themselves about what sponsorship implies is spot on,
> maybe give us an opportunity to teach them about all the
> patriots that have overthrown their own governments for the better, the
> patriots that resist foreign occupation aaand i'll stop there.
> >
> > Also, this particular event aside, the initial feedback seems to
> indicate that George is OK with some form of highschool-age kids
> participating at sudo room which could extend our educational value to the
> community. There is this program where HS students share time on cube sats
> - I'm trying to get a team formed at my high school in San Antonio, would
> be awesome if we could get some students from Oakland in on it. Pretty
> basic stuff, just writing software to flash up there and read sensors, then
> 'up'load the data back to earth. No warheads or anything.
> >
> > Oct 14, 2013 10:06:19 AM, di.franco at gmail.com wrote:
> > I share the desire to be critical of and proceed carefully with
> associations with military-sponsored events.
> > >
> >
> > I think it will be important for us to hear directly from the kids if
> possible since they have by far the most to gain or lose in this question:
> How do they view the sponsorship of the contest, what do they hope to get
> from participating in the contest, what do they hope to gain from being at
> sudo room (if we will have them)?
> > >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 1:34 AM, Marc Juul juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
> > >
> >
> >
> > >On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 12:25 AM, Vicky Knox vknoxsironi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > >Marc's response is justified, though I reject the language of the two
> opening questions.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > My conversation over the phone with Vivienne lead me to believe that she
> was participating in a competition organized by her school and I didn't
> carefully scan the email explanation that she sent me afterward to send to
> the list. I am really down about my oversight and apologize for it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I did learn the details of the competition's funding when she and a
> colleague came to see the space and pick up the key the night before their
> practice, and at that point I processed the explanation of the sponsorship
> much differently than Marc.
> >
> >
> >
> > ?
> > >While she is not happy about the sponsor, Vivienne's justification of
> pursuing this event was that this was a great opportunity for her students
> to get a hold of resources and a learning environment they would otherwise
> not have had. She wanted to be able to do this event at a hackerspace
> because her ultimate goal was to use this competition as a bridge to
> connect to a critical, hacker community (for what this bridge is worth,
> given the obvious discrepancy). I felt at once uneasy and understanding. I
> respect the sentiment that she expressed that she needed to take the
> opportunity that was there, just as I am not quick to jump to judgment of
> many of my bright and fascinating friends back home who were in a position
> in which they (felt that they?) needed to join the military in order to
> realistically afford higher education. That said, I stand with Marc in my
> rejection of the military industrial complex (or whatever you would like to
> call it), but I do not know the answer to more nu
> anced questions of access to aspirational education within a race-class
> divided society. I invite your conversation.
> >
> >
> >
> > This is not a question of access to aspirational education within a
> race-class divided society. The problem I'm having is that you (and
> possibly others?) decided to facilitate something called The Air Force
> Association's CyberPatriot Competition, with Northrop Grumman as sponsor,
> with some form of association to sudo room. Whatever your personal
> decision-making process was, you must have realized that at least some
> members would strongly disagree with that decision, yet you moved forward
> with short warning and without directly bringing the controversial topic in
> front of the group for discussion and decision. This should have been taken
> up at the weekly meeting. The fact that it was not obvious to you that this
> event was controversial enough to warrant serious group discussion before
> proceeding is problematic.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > If Marc or anyone else would like to bring up this topic at the general
> meeting, I could not make it this Wednesday but am available the following.
> > I will be there.
> > >
> >
> > ?
> > >
> >
> > Vicky
> >
> > On Oct 13, 2013 7:31 PM, "Marc Juul" juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Vicky Knox vknoxsironi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >Do you all have any recommendations on how to expedite this? What is
> the current status of the large room and using it for? events?
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >For background, this teacher origianally contacted info at sudoroom but
> never got a response, and called the SR number today, slightly frantic. I
> think it would be really awesome if we were able to help her out. This
> event seems quite an incredible opportunity for young people.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >What? What have you been smoking?
> > >
> > >The Air Force Association's CyberPatriot? Sponsored by Northrop
> Grumman?! Why are people assuming that this is something sudo room wants to
> support or in any way encourage?
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >This sounds terrible. I am going to take this up at this Wednesdays
> > sudo room meeting. I am completely against anything like this happening
> > in or near sudo room in any way shape or form. I do not believe I am
> > alone in feeling like this. I am both surprised and very disappointed
> > that a critical and sceptical approach was not taken in dealing with
> > something like this on behalf of sudo room.
> > >
> > >--
> > >Marc
> > >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >
> > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > >
> > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> > >
> > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >sudo-discuss mailing list
> > >sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> > >http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 14:42:35 -0700
> From: Julio Rios <julio.rios at gmail.com>
> To: William Budington <bill at inputoutput.io>
> Cc: "sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org"
> <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] [HELP] Oak Tech teacher requests space
> 6hrs/1x/month **starting Sunday**
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAOG09veYKtPYsvRAnsX503m+Wr-i70paY+A1wv1Dy2p3fbA2WA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> +1 on Bill's idea
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 2:11 PM, William Budington <bill at inputoutput.io
> >wrote:
>
> > I don't want to assume ill intent of the teacher herself, and I don't
> want
> > to assume she is trying to mislead us. I think that the avenues of
> funding
> > are extremely limited for Oakland's public schools, and meanwhile the
> USAF
> > and Northrop Grumman are all too eager to find desperate youth and offer
> > them a 'future' that turns them into killing machines. But we may have
> an
> > actual opportunity to talk to the teacher and offer her some alternatives
> > for the students, and actually wrench such an event from the hands of the
> > military industrial complex. Wouldn't it be beautiful if we had a
> > fundraiser for youth from this school that want to work on cool hacking
> > projects (Oakland Wiki?)
> >
> > I think there are a multitude of ways to create an alternative event for
> > these kids, in a way that doesn't say to the teacher "flip off we don't
> > want your event here" but actually has a positive spin that cuts the USAF
> > out of the loop. We've actually already been talking about creating a
> > Sudo-Teens, and I think this would perfectly riff off of that project.
> As
> > it happens, my partner actually works for OUSD and is in a unique
> position
> > to bridge our goals and theirs, and will be getting in contact with the
> > teacher herself to propose alternatives. What do you all think?
> >
> > On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:13:41 +0000, Hol Gaskill wrote:
> > >
> > > Northrop Grumman is historically, and still almost entirely an arms
> > manufacturer. What if we had United Launch Alliance wanting to sponsor a
> > rocketry program for kids? Where do we draw the perimeter around our
> > organization? Google? PG&E? Taqueria Sinaloa? I think there are a few
> > no-brainers both ways, and a vast expanse of grey area. Maybe we could
> > have 2 levels of association for events - events that are endorsed by the
> > group wholeheartedly and have no substantial conflicts of interest, and
> > events where there is no question of value to the intended benefit
> > recipients but some members have reservations about what it would imply
> if
> > we were perceived to be associated as a group. Like, can't be added to
> the
> > website or announced via sudo social media nodes, can't use our logo in
> > their documentation of the event, etc. I think the comment about going
> > over with the kids themselves about what sponsorship implies is spot on,
> > maybe give us an opportunity to teach them about all the patriots that
> have
> > overthrown their own governments for the better, the patriots that resist
> > foreign occupation aaand i'll stop there.
> > >
> > > Also, this particular event aside, the initial feedback seems to
> > indicate that George is OK with some form of highschool-age kids
> > participating at sudo room which could extend our educational value to
> the
> > community. There is this program where HS students share time on cube
> sats
> > - I'm trying to get a team formed at my high school in San Antonio, would
> > be awesome if we could get some students from Oakland in on it. Pretty
> > basic stuff, just writing software to flash up there and read sensors,
> then
> > 'up'load the data back to earth. No warheads or anything.
> > >
> > > Oct 14, 2013 10:06:19 AM, di.franco at gmail.com wrote:
> > > I share the desire to be critical of and proceed carefully with
> > associations with military-sponsored events.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I think it will be important for us to hear directly from the kids if
> > possible since they have by far the most to gain or lose in this
> question:
> > How do they view the sponsorship of the contest, what do they hope to get
> > from participating in the contest, what do they hope to gain from being
> at
> > sudo room (if we will have them)?
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 1:34 AM, Marc Juul juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 12:25 AM, Vicky Knox vknoxsironi at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >Marc's response is justified, though I reject the language of the two
> > opening questions.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > My conversation over the phone with Vivienne lead me to believe that
> she
> > was participating in a competition organized by her school and I didn't
> > carefully scan the email explanation that she sent me afterward to send
> to
> > the list. I am really down about my oversight and apologize for it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I did learn the details of the competition's funding when she and a
> > colleague came to see the space and pick up the key the night before
> their
> > practice, and at that point I processed the explanation of the
> sponsorship
> > much differently than Marc.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >While she is not happy about the sponsor, Vivienne's justification of
> > pursuing this event was that this was a great opportunity for her
> students
> > to get a hold of resources and a learning environment they would
> otherwise
> > not have had. She wanted to be able to do this event at a hackerspace
> > because her ultimate goal was to use this competition as a bridge to
> > connect to a critical, hacker community (for what this bridge is worth,
> > given the obvious discrepancy). I felt at once uneasy and understanding.
> I
> > respect the sentiment that she expressed that she needed to take the
> > opportunity that was there, just as I am not quick to jump to judgment of
> > many of my bright and fascinating friends back home who were in a
> position
> > in which they (felt that they?) needed to join the military in order to
> > realistically afford higher education. That said, I stand with Marc in my
> > rejection of the military industrial complex (or whatever you would like
> to
> > call it), but I do not know the answer to more nuanced questions of
> access
> > to aspirational education within a race-class divided society. I invite
> > your conversation.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This is not a question of access to aspirational education within a
> > race-class divided society. The problem I'm having is that you (and
> > possibly others?) decided to facilitate something called The Air Force
> > Association's CyberPatriot Competition, with Northrop Grumman as sponsor,
> > with some form of association to sudo room. Whatever your personal
> > decision-making process was, you must have realized that at least some
> > members would strongly disagree with that decision, yet you moved forward
> > with short warning and without directly bringing the controversial topic
> in
> > front of the group for discussion and decision. This should have been
> taken
> > up at the weekly meeting. The fact that it was not obvious to you that
> this
> > event was controversial enough to warrant serious group discussion before
> > proceeding is problematic.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > If Marc or anyone else would like to bring up this topic at the general
> > meeting, I could not make it this Wednesday but am available the
> following.
> > > I will be there.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Vicky
> > >
> > > On Oct 13, 2013 7:31 PM, "Marc Juul" juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Vicky Knox vknoxsironi at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >Do you all have any recommendations on how to expedite this? What is
> > the current status of the large room and using it for events?
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >For background, this teacher origianally contacted info at sudoroom but
> > never got a response, and called the SR number today, slightly frantic. I
> > think it would be really awesome if we were able to help her out. This
> > event seems quite an incredible opportunity for young people.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >What? What have you been smoking?
> > > >
> > > >The Air Force Association's CyberPatriot? Sponsored by Northrop
> > Grumman?! Why are people assuming that this is something sudo room wants
> to
> > support or in any way encourage?
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >This sounds terrible. I am going to take this up at this Wednesdays
> > > sudo room meeting. I am completely against anything like this happening
> > > in or near sudo room in any way shape or form. I do not believe I am
> > > alone in feeling like this. I am both surprised and very disappointed
> > > that a critical and sceptical approach was not taken in dealing with
> > > something like this on behalf of sudo room.
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >Marc
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >
> > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > >
> > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> > > >
> > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > >sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> > > >http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> > > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sudo-discuss mailing list
> > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 15:21:52 -0700
> From: Max Klein <isalix at gmail.com>
> To: sudo-discuss <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> Subject: [sudo-discuss] George says "Rent is late. If not paid by Oct
> 15 3pm, then 5% late fee".
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAKbmofgUAyRz8mado6xAgn64g8Pn1Uhwz4aTkZoePNOyFrpR1g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> George has just said that to me in sudo Oct 14, 3:20pm.
>
> What is current status? If not enough, I will issue sudo an interest free
> loan to avoid late fee.
>
> Max
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 16:01:57 -0700
> From: Jenny Ryan <tunabananas at gmail.com>
> To: Max Klein <isalix at gmail.com>
> Cc: sudo-discuss <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] George says "Rent is late. If not paid by
> Oct 15 3pm, then 5% late fee".
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAF0yFe7YFPJiLsJ_t0bOmcLzoC2c1ViuqxhS7h6vywdZb4sfCg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Matt is on it, and I've relayed this to George. We have enough :)
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> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
>
> End of sudo-discuss Digest, Vol 12, Issue 21
> ********************************************
>
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