[sudo-discuss] Proposed changes to the articles of association

Thu Jun 12 00:43:43 PDT 2014

Updated the questions and a notice about the purely informational nature of
the questions:

https://sudoroom.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Articles_of_Association%2FMembership_Process&diff=8254&oldid=7983

'To become a member, a person must submit a brief written or spoken
"Declaration of Intent to Join" where they answer the following questions
(for informational purposes only, in other words "there are no wrong
answers"):'

// Matt

On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 9:50 PM, Gregg Horton <greggahorton at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I can't tell anymore
> On May 15, 2014 11:13 PM, "Marc Juul" <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 12:01 AM, Gregg Horton <greggahorton at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> How about a nap pass?
>>>
>> I think you're in the wrong thread. The proposed changes have nothing to
>> do with sleeping.
>>
>>
>>> On May 14, 2014 11:48 PM, "Marina Kukso" <marina.kukso at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> sounds good. something that might help in documentation is an explicit
>>>> message on the application form (or wherever) that "membership is typically
>>>> granted barring some serious circumstances or reservations and that you
>>>> shouldn't take the application questions extremely seriously because you're
>>>> worried it might hurt your chances of being accepted - just feel free to be
>>>> honest." that wording's not very good, but i think you get the idea.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:22 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ah yes, I think the idea for that was to generally side on not
>>>>> specifying too narrowly, but instead to use "human judgment over automation
>>>>> and efficiency" and cultural protocol to navigate it. I think "serious
>>>>> issues" is a metric we are giving to future sudo room members in order for
>>>>> them to weigh heavily whether some issue that potentially prevents a member
>>>>> from joining is in fact of a "serious" nature. I'm of the disposition this
>>>>> means something that conflicts directly with sudo room's values and the
>>>>> articles of association.
>>>>>
>>>>> I actually think this process could be fairly easy to go through that
>>>>> doesn't need to be very intimidating. At the meeting tonight, everyone was
>>>>> in favor of putting time into implementing a better experience for new
>>>>> members so that this policy is clearly outlined and available in multiple
>>>>> formats (paper, on the website, etc)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso at gmail.com
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks matt. i like both of the changed wordings that you've
>>>>>> suggested. i'd be happy with either version.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> still wondering about the second issue - what "serious issues" might
>>>>>> be and what the criteria are that the group would vote people up or down on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:10 PM, Matthew Senate <
>>>>>> mattsenate at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Phil,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think nothing in this policy *prevents *tele-presence, in fact, I
>>>>>>> think it would be prudent for a prospective member to, at the very least,
>>>>>>> offer to attend the meeting virtually if they cannot be physically present.
>>>>>>> Either way, the only requirement is the prospective member submits
>>>>>>> something concrete, in writing (format unspecified, so digital text seems
>>>>>>> fine).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marina,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have no strong feelings about the exact phrasing, I think those
>>>>>>> questions were carried over from Jake's original(ish) proposal, maybe?
>>>>>>> Marc, do you know where those questions came from?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do like the idea of asking questions to get three kinds of
>>>>>>> responses:
>>>>>>> 1. A response about why they are interested, leaving the opportunity
>>>>>>> for setting some context to joining.
>>>>>>> 2. A response about what specifically they want to do (commonly
>>>>>>> folks have particular projects or uses in mind as they get involved with
>>>>>>> sudo)
>>>>>>> 2. A response about specifically how they see themselves
>>>>>>> contributing to the community, as giving some sort contribution *is*
>>>>>>> an expectation, but extremely open / liberal. I think "share" is a great
>>>>>>> term to express this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have no reason to think we should hang on to the question about
>>>>>>> "hacking" in particular, maybe alternatives:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
>>>>>>> #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
>>>>>>> #** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to
>>>>>>> do at sudo room?
>>>>>>> #** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to
>>>>>>> share with the sudo room community?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That being said, I'd also be happy with the truncated version:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
>>>>>>> #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> // Matt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Marina Kukso <
>>>>>>> marina.kukso at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> thanks and apologies that i haven't had a chance to be a part of
>>>>>>>> this discussion until now. i have a few questions:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - re: "What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?" & "What
>>>>>>>> are you excited about sharing with sudo room?" i wonder what effect seeing
>>>>>>>> these questions on the application would have for someone who's really new
>>>>>>>> to the world of hacking and/or someone who might not identify as a hacker
>>>>>>>> (ie, someone who would consider themselves a "beginner" or "just learning"
>>>>>>>> - as many of our members, including myself, do). like if you're not sure
>>>>>>>> what you're interested on hacking...or if you're not sure what you have to
>>>>>>>> share with sudo room. is anyone else concerned that these questions might
>>>>>>>> be intimidating to newcomers? (i ask this genuinely). also, what happens if
>>>>>>>> a prospective member puts on their application "i don't know" or "i'm not
>>>>>>>> sure" for these questions? would that affect their application?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> this leads to my second question:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Under "initial pondering" it says "#** The intent is for it to be
>>>>>>>> very easy for new members to join, so only very serious concerns should be
>>>>>>>> brought up." what would a "serious concern" be? also there isn't really any
>>>>>>>> indication like..what the yes/no on a person's membership request is based
>>>>>>>> on. does the content of what people put in their application matter?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> finally, what do folks think is gained by the hacking & sharing
>>>>>>>> q's? do you think that you wouldn't get enough information from "what
>>>>>>>> is your pseudonym/name" and "why do you want to be a member of sudo room?"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Marc Juul <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> These are the proposed changes brought up at the current sudo room
>>>>>>>>> meeting. We will attempt to consense on this at the sudo room meeting on
>>>>>>>>> Wednesday the 21st of May at 7 pm in sudo room.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ===Section 2.1 Qualifications for Membership===
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * Successfully completing the process for becoming a member, below:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ====Section 2.1.0 Process for becoming a member====
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> #'''Declaration of Intent to Join'''
>>>>>>>>> #* To become a member, a person must submit a brief written or
>>>>>>>>> spoken "Declaration of Intent to Join" where they answer the
>>>>>>>>> following questions:
>>>>>>>>> #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
>>>>>>>>> #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
>>>>>>>>> #** What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?
>>>>>>>>> #** What are you excited about sharing with sudo room?
>>>>>>>>> #'''Initial Pondering'''
>>>>>>>>> #* It is only possible to become a member at the weekly sudo room
>>>>>>>>> meeting. Prospective members should attend if possible but can submit a
>>>>>>>>> written declaration if they are not able to attend in person.
>>>>>>>>> #* At the sudo room weekly meeting, every prospective member must
>>>>>>>>> leave the room while the existing members have a chance to bring up any
>>>>>>>>> concerns or reasons why the prospective member(s) should not be
>>>>>>>>> allowed membership (referred to as the "Initial Pondering").
>>>>>>>>> #** The intent is for it to be very easy for new members to join,
>>>>>>>>> so only very serious concerns should be brought up.
>>>>>>>>> #** If any existing member objects to a prospective new member
>>>>>>>>> becoming a member, and this cannot be resolved through discussion, then the
>>>>>>>>> prospective member will not be allowed membership.
>>>>>>>>> #** Unreasonable or frequent blocking of new members by an
>>>>>>>>> existing member is grounds for immediate termination of membership based on
>>>>>>>>> a 2/3 vote.
>>>>>>>>> #*  Upon completing the "Initial Pondering", such prospective
>>>>>>>>> members must be communicated to the sudo room mailing list within 24 hours,
>>>>>>>>> including their "Declaration of Intent to Join".
>>>>>>>>> #'''Extended Pondering'''
>>>>>>>>> #* After the Initial Pondering, if there are no objections, there
>>>>>>>>> will be one week for sudo room members to raise objections as to why the
>>>>>>>>> prospective member should not be allowed to join (referred to as the
>>>>>>>>> "Extended Pondering").
>>>>>>>>> #* If there are no objections raised during the "Extended
>>>>>>>>> Pondering", the prospective member will become a member.
>>>>>>>>> #** The intention is to provide sufficient time to ensure all
>>>>>>>>> concerns of those unable to attend the meeting may be heard.
>>>>>>>>> #* The new member will be added to the membership list and given
>>>>>>>>> access to desired and relevant assets and services of sudo room.
>>>>>>>>> #* No announcement of this change of status after the "Extended
>>>>>>>>> Pondering" is necessary.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>
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