[sudo-discuss] Proposed changes to the articles of association

Fri May 16 21:50:33 PDT 2014

I can't tell anymore
On May 15, 2014 11:13 PM, "Marc Juul" <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:

> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 12:01 AM, Gregg Horton <greggahorton at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> How about a nap pass?
>>
> I think you're in the wrong thread. The proposed changes have nothing to
> do with sleeping.
>
>
>> On May 14, 2014 11:48 PM, "Marina Kukso" <marina.kukso at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> sounds good. something that might help in documentation is an explicit
>>> message on the application form (or wherever) that "membership is typically
>>> granted barring some serious circumstances or reservations and that you
>>> shouldn't take the application questions extremely seriously because you're
>>> worried it might hurt your chances of being accepted - just feel free to be
>>> honest." that wording's not very good, but i think you get the idea.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:22 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> ah yes, I think the idea for that was to generally side on not
>>>> specifying too narrowly, but instead to use "human judgment over automation
>>>> and efficiency" and cultural protocol to navigate it. I think "serious
>>>> issues" is a metric we are giving to future sudo room members in order for
>>>> them to weigh heavily whether some issue that potentially prevents a member
>>>> from joining is in fact of a "serious" nature. I'm of the disposition this
>>>> means something that conflicts directly with sudo room's values and the
>>>> articles of association.
>>>>
>>>> I actually think this process could be fairly easy to go through that
>>>> doesn't need to be very intimidating. At the meeting tonight, everyone was
>>>> in favor of putting time into implementing a better experience for new
>>>> members so that this policy is clearly outlined and available in multiple
>>>> formats (paper, on the website, etc)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> thanks matt. i like both of the changed wordings that you've
>>>>> suggested. i'd be happy with either version.
>>>>>
>>>>> still wondering about the second issue - what "serious issues" might
>>>>> be and what the criteria are that the group would vote people up or down on.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:10 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate at gmail.com
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Phil,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think nothing in this policy *prevents *tele-presence, in fact, I
>>>>>> think it would be prudent for a prospective member to, at the very least,
>>>>>> offer to attend the meeting virtually if they cannot be physically present.
>>>>>> Either way, the only requirement is the prospective member submits
>>>>>> something concrete, in writing (format unspecified, so digital text seems
>>>>>> fine).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marina,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have no strong feelings about the exact phrasing, I think those
>>>>>> questions were carried over from Jake's original(ish) proposal, maybe?
>>>>>> Marc, do you know where those questions came from?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do like the idea of asking questions to get three kinds of
>>>>>> responses:
>>>>>> 1. A response about why they are interested, leaving the opportunity
>>>>>> for setting some context to joining.
>>>>>> 2. A response about what specifically they want to do (commonly folks
>>>>>> have particular projects or uses in mind as they get involved with sudo)
>>>>>> 2. A response about specifically how they see themselves contributing
>>>>>> to the community, as giving some sort contribution *is* an
>>>>>> expectation, but extremely open / liberal. I think "share" is a great term
>>>>>> to express this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have no reason to think we should hang on to the question about
>>>>>> "hacking" in particular, maybe alternatives:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
>>>>>> #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
>>>>>> #** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to do
>>>>>> at sudo room?
>>>>>> #** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to
>>>>>> share with the sudo room community?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That being said, I'd also be happy with the truncated version:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
>>>>>> #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> // Matt
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso at gmail.com
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks and apologies that i haven't had a chance to be a part of
>>>>>>> this discussion until now. i have a few questions:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - re: "What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?" & "What
>>>>>>> are you excited about sharing with sudo room?" i wonder what effect seeing
>>>>>>> these questions on the application would have for someone who's really new
>>>>>>> to the world of hacking and/or someone who might not identify as a hacker
>>>>>>> (ie, someone who would consider themselves a "beginner" or "just learning"
>>>>>>> - as many of our members, including myself, do). like if you're not sure
>>>>>>> what you're interested on hacking...or if you're not sure what you have to
>>>>>>> share with sudo room. is anyone else concerned that these questions might
>>>>>>> be intimidating to newcomers? (i ask this genuinely). also, what happens if
>>>>>>> a prospective member puts on their application "i don't know" or "i'm not
>>>>>>> sure" for these questions? would that affect their application?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this leads to my second question:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Under "initial pondering" it says "#** The intent is for it to be
>>>>>>> very easy for new members to join, so only very serious concerns should be
>>>>>>> brought up." what would a "serious concern" be? also there isn't really any
>>>>>>> indication like..what the yes/no on a person's membership request is based
>>>>>>> on. does the content of what people put in their application matter?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> finally, what do folks think is gained by the hacking & sharing q's?
>>>>>>> do you think that you wouldn't get enough information from "what is
>>>>>>> your pseudonym/name" and "why do you want to be a member of sudo room?"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Marc Juul <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> These are the proposed changes brought up at the current sudo room
>>>>>>>> meeting. We will attempt to consense on this at the sudo room meeting on
>>>>>>>> Wednesday the 21st of May at 7 pm in sudo room.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ===Section 2.1 Qualifications for Membership===
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * Successfully completing the process for becoming a member, below:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ====Section 2.1.0 Process for becoming a member====
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> #'''Declaration of Intent to Join'''
>>>>>>>> #* To become a member, a person must submit a brief written or
>>>>>>>> spoken "Declaration of Intent to Join" where they answer the
>>>>>>>> following questions:
>>>>>>>> #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
>>>>>>>> #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
>>>>>>>> #** What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?
>>>>>>>> #** What are you excited about sharing with sudo room?
>>>>>>>> #'''Initial Pondering'''
>>>>>>>> #* It is only possible to become a member at the weekly sudo room
>>>>>>>> meeting. Prospective members should attend if possible but can submit a
>>>>>>>> written declaration if they are not able to attend in person.
>>>>>>>> #* At the sudo room weekly meeting, every prospective member must
>>>>>>>> leave the room while the existing members have a chance to bring up any
>>>>>>>> concerns or reasons why the prospective member(s) should not be
>>>>>>>> allowed membership (referred to as the "Initial Pondering").
>>>>>>>> #** The intent is for it to be very easy for new members to join,
>>>>>>>> so only very serious concerns should be brought up.
>>>>>>>> #** If any existing member objects to a prospective new member
>>>>>>>> becoming a member, and this cannot be resolved through discussion, then the
>>>>>>>> prospective member will not be allowed membership.
>>>>>>>> #** Unreasonable or frequent blocking of new members by an
>>>>>>>> existing member is grounds for immediate termination of membership based on
>>>>>>>> a 2/3 vote.
>>>>>>>> #*  Upon completing the "Initial Pondering", such prospectivemembers must be communicated to the sudo room mailing list within 24 hours,
>>>>>>>> including their "Declaration of Intent to Join".
>>>>>>>> #'''Extended Pondering'''
>>>>>>>> #* After the Initial Pondering, if there are no objections, there
>>>>>>>> will be one week for sudo room members to raise objections as to why the
>>>>>>>> prospective member should not be allowed to join (referred to as the
>>>>>>>> "Extended Pondering").
>>>>>>>> #* If there are no objections raised during the "Extended
>>>>>>>> Pondering", the prospective member will become a member.
>>>>>>>> #** The intention is to provide sufficient time to ensure all
>>>>>>>> concerns of those unable to attend the meeting may be heard.
>>>>>>>> #* The new member will be added to the membership list and given
>>>>>>>> access to desired and relevant assets and services of sudo room.
>>>>>>>> #* No announcement of this change of status after the "Extended
>>>>>>>> Pondering" is necessary.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
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