[sudo-discuss] Omni Commons Delegates for the Sudo Room

Fri May 15 19:19:01 PDT 2015

Rachel, I trust that you'll make the best decision for you, and no matter
what, I <3 you, kay?

On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 7:17 PM, Rachel Wolfsohn <rawjnana at gmail.com> wrote:

> Very true, there are plenty of other hackerspaces
>
> But sadly, there are few Commons spaces. Few Public spaces. And Sudo is
> part of a project that wants to be a Commons, open to the public.
>
> Alas, I hope this whole land is made of truly communal, public spaces,
> within my lifetime.
>
> And when that time comes, that people are ready for real change, it will
> be confidence, outspokenness and respect that leads people, as it always
> was.
>
> Which would you choose? Law-given freedom? The freedom allotted by
> resources held? Or inherent freedom?
>
> I officially give up on trying to fix any fucking system. Please, enjoy.
> :)
>
> I'm grateful really. It was about time I snapped out of it; the illusion
> that living within social structures, even in full-frontal-truth, can
> actually make a difference.
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 6:52 PM, Ryan <yandoryn at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Consistent unreasonable blocking is a quick way to find yourself as a
>> member in bad standing. Blocking isn't meant to be a punitive thing... it's
>> supposed to be a good way to show how serious something is, so amendments
>> can be made or discussion can go forward as to why this is a blocking
>> concern at all.
>>
>> We have talked about lowering quorum to seven, but it's never gone
>> through because we've come to the conclusion that it's better to try and up
>> meeting attendance rather than reduce quorum.
>>
>> If you don't have faith in sudo's system, you don't have to participate.
>> That's not to say that people wouldn't be sad to see you go, but it's
>> always an option. If you're finding yourself disillusioned or not agreeing
>> with sudo's core politics, there are other hackerspaces out there. The Bay
>> Area has a ton! Maybe you can find one that aligns with you better. As a
>> moderator of a heavily used web app, I have to remind people of this
>> constantly. Not every community is for everyone. It'd be kind of messed up
>> if that were the case.
>>
>> Honestly, it sounds like you're having issues with the Omni at large in
>> general. Maybe it's just not working out. Maybe you need to take a break
>> and assess if this is the right community for you after all.
>>
>> You also have the option of not participating in the system if you don't
>> have faith in it, without stopping being part of the community. There are a
>> lot of folks at sudo and the Omni who don't get deep into the politics or
>> the day-to-day workings. And that's okay. They shouldn't have to be
>> involved on that level if they don't want to be.
>>
>> If you do want to change something, though, and missed a meeting because
>> of an emergency or a double-booking, again, you are welcome to submit a
>> counter-proposal.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 6:41 PM, Rachel Wolfsohn <rawjnana at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> blocking can work. but then someone could block forever something that's
>>> reasonable to the majority. there's always a limit, not always gonna make
>>> everyone happy. limitations on blocking could prevent this, yes.
>>>
>>> bc ppl don't always agree, the higher a percentage is for the required
>>> the majority, the closer it is to consensus, the system is leaving behind
>>> the few rather than the silent, if voting is required. when consensus
>>> rules, the loud and confident can get away with murder, esp if those in
>>> disaccord happen to be busy at the vet or something...
>>>
>>> just my belief. consensus won't actually work for the real world- only
>>> for a small place of play/leisure, really. where a small group already
>>> generally agrees with each other or shares personal interests.
>>>
>>> yeah, showing up to meetings is an answer. when you can.
>>>
>>>  as people who know Power know well, once something is in effect, it
>>> takes a lot more to get people to change it,
>>>
>>> ... bc there's a perception of there having been agreement by so many in
>>> the first place, rather than a small group.
>>> Example:
>>>  the U.S. gov't's structure. It was created by merely dozens of people,
>>> for millions, one day hundreds of millions, of people
>>>
>>> and honestly, it takes faith in a system to participate in it. faith i
>>> don't have in any system but that of family, true loyal unstructured
>>> unsolicited solidarity, and a universal spirit, at the moment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> P.S i've heard talk from sudo's founders about lessening quorum to
>>> seven. because attendance is so low. running sudo is already left in the
>>> hands of it's founders. perhaps more than you all realize, people don't
>>> want to step on your toes...
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 6:18 PM, Ryan <yandoryn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Also, there's a really obvious answer to this fear of cliques.
>>>>
>>>> Show up to meetings.
>>>>
>>>> All members have blocking power. Yay consensus.
>>>>
>>>> If you're unhappy with a proposal that was passed, make a
>>>> counter-proposal. Nothing is set in stone. sudo's policies can change very
>>>> quickly. We're not waterfall; we're agile. It's better to deploy our
>>>> changes regularly, knowing we can further build on these features than make
>>>> sure they're perfect when the race starts.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 6:13 PM, Ryan <yandoryn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Quorum takes 10 people. I really don't consider that a small group.
>>>>>
>>>>> I personally think that voting creates a tyranny of the majority which
>>>>> inherently oppresses minority groups. In a democracy, minorities have to
>>>>> hope for the benevolence of the majority to deign to stoop down low enough
>>>>> to recognize them as people.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 6:02 PM, Rachel Wolfsohn <rawjnana at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I would be wary, sudo, of how few people it already takes to have
>>>>>> quorum, and if that changes...
>>>>>> A small clique of friends can be at a meeting, and make decisions for
>>>>>> all of sudo.
>>>>>> It's a broken system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Our leaders can either say
>>>>>> "there's the power, don't give it to anyone, let's split it
>>>>>> consciously"
>>>>>>  or
>>>>>>  "where's the power? i don't see it"
>>>>>> the latter is falsity in my opinion, it deters you from taking any
>>>>>> the former is truth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think 1-vote-per-member; remotely solicited when live-vote isn't
>>>>>> possible, is a much sounder way of representing the opinions and needs of
>>>>>> many people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> to my eyes, consensus seems to be closer to high school social
>>>>>> dynamics than a step in political evolution. i'm definitely disillusioned
>>>>>> about consensus after seeing this project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 3:30 PM, danarauz at gmail.com <
>>>>>> danarauz at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 1:10 PM, Marc Juul <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 8:48 AM, Rachel Wolfsohn <
>>>>>>>> rawjnana at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My question is whose idea was this in the first place?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It was this guy:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   http://i.imgur.com/qmPKJHh.gif
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> marc/juul
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> <3 Rachel
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> <3 Rachel
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> <3 Rachel
>
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