[sudo-discuss] someone at sudo was a creep and it's a problem

Wed Aug 3 17:32:58 PDT 2016

Sean is a regular CCL member, and has been working on the liquid handling
robot in the basement for almost two months now.

I've interacted with him on several occasions. He is definitely
enthusiastic and talkative, but he didn't strike me as a problem before.
But then again, I'm not a woman either.

I would really want to hear Jake's friend's reaction to this event, and the
opinion of some of the other women in CCL he's been interacting with over
the past several weeks.

Patrik

On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Marc Juul <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 2:17 AM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>
>> Dear Sudoroom,
>>
>> sorry for streaming mode, i'm not sure how to talk about this.
>>
>> there's this guy who's been at sudo a few times during hardware hacking
>> tuesdays.  I think his name is Sean but i can't remember for sure now.
>>
>> he likes talking about his workout routine, and getting rich, and says
>> he's going to invent bio-drones and says he's working on some secret
>> project that's going to show to elon musk and it's going to make him super
>> rich.
>>
>> well tonight he crossed the line from annoying to unacceptably creepy.
>>
>> tonight a friend of mine came to sudoroom so we could use the robot to
>> cut holes in these christmas ornaments.  It was a big project that took
>> hours and a lot of focus.  Sean (is that his name?) was on her like glue
>> the entire time, trying to be helpful, talking to her.
>>
>> It made me uncomfortable, but she's a grownup and can speak for herself,
>> but at the same time the power dynamic and assertiveness imbalance was
>> quite stark and I really wanted to say something.
>> But i didn't know what to say.
>>
>> the first time he went away for a minute, which was after what seemed
>> like a long time, i said to my friend "you know, if anyone's bothering you
>> here you can tell them to go away" because i couldn't think of anything
>> better to say.  maybe i should have offered to tell him to go away?  but
>> that would have only parried the problem that one time.
>>
>> Of course he soon came back.  I think we were both trying to ignore him
>> as best we could, and we did get some good work done thanks to Zack and
>> Fenn, who are great.  But eventually they left and it was just the three of
>> us.
>>
>> I don't know what other things he said to my friend when i wasn't
>> watching, but I did see him eventually ask her on a date.  She told him no,
>> and then he made it very clear to everyone that he was fine with that and
>> not bothered by it at all, because he's not bothered by anything.
>>
>> I was super bothered by it.  I wanted to tell him to leave right then,
>> but I really didn't want to talk to him, I just wanted him to go away on
>> his own.  I guess eventually he did.
>>
>> I want two things.  I want Sudoroom to ask this person to take a break
>> from the space so that he can study up on our anti-harrassment policy and
>> maybe write us an essay about why it's unacceptable to mack on people in
>> sudoroom.
>>
>> and I also want us to look into how we can make it clearer to people like
>> him, and to his targets, that sudoroom is expressly a safe place from this
>> kind of behavior.  I would like for there to be a sign that I can point to
>> in moments like that, so that I don't have to try to say it with my own
>> words, in front of other people.
>>
>> it's a complex issue, because if someone is being talkative and helpful
>> they're not necessarily doing it as a creep move, so how do you know where
>> to draw the line?  We can remind people to check their own intentions, but
>> maybe we need more ways for people who feel uncomfortable to get relief
>> from unwanted attention without having to then engage the person in Lesson
>> 101 right then.
>>
>> maybe we need yellow cards?  to hand to people that say "please go to the
>> fridge and read the entire sign reminding you about proper behavior in
>> sudoroom.  Do not ask any more questions of the person who gave you this
>> card, they have other things they want to do now.  thank you."
>>
>> Noisebridge seems to have a great vibe, at least the other night when I
>> was there, Zach explained to one of our friends why it would be
>> inappropriate to "ask someone out" at Noisebridge.  I'm not sure how their
>> anti-harrassment policy differs from ours, or what we could learn from it,
>> but I would like for us to be more out-in-front of this issue so it doesn't
>> come up anymore without being addressed.
>>
>> thanks for reading this, let's figure this out.
>>
>
> I also interacted with this person. Definitely some weird ego problem
> going on there. Pointed out several times how skilled he is and all the
> things he knows and kept repeating how he does mixed martial arts in places
> where it made no sense to the conversation. He didn't seem threatening just
> really intent on making me understand how amazing he is, though the
> repeated references to his martial arts skills were definitely creepy. I
> saw some of his interactions with the robot arm group but apparently not
> the worst of it. This is definitely a case of someone who doesn't have a
> clue about social interactions, which isn't new to sudo, but couple that
> with his pushiness and I think we have a problem.
>
> There's asking someone on a date and then there's an evening of imposing
> yourself and making others uncomfortable followed by asking someone on a
> date when they're not showing any interest.
>
> We could talk to him about his behavior. We could couple that with a
> short-term break from the space (e.g. 1 month). It's unlikely that he'll
> come back to the space after a short term ban (few people do).
>
> Meet in sudo or on the sudo room riseup pad at 7 pm for a group decision
> on this.
>
> --
> marc/juul
>
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