[sudo-discuss] johnny ban / process?

Wed Jul 20 11:37:52 PDT 2016

I know you're trying to help everyone, Marina. Please feel free to talk to
me off list as well.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016, 11:36 AM Lesley Bell <zvezdalune at gmail.com> wrote:

> Also, that all happened and was awful, but he's been asked to leave for
> repeatedly breaking the safe space policy in other ways, including assault.
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016, 11:30 AM Lesley Bell <zvezdalune at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I find it kind of humiliating that this has to be so public. I feel that
>> it shows poor judgement on my part to have ignored and suppressed my own
>> feelings for so long in this situation. The humorless feminist straw man is
>> a scary thing to be policed with, if I have an excuse. I give people the
>> benefit of the doubt, I accept a lot of communication styles, so I laughed
>> the first half dozen or so times he called me something awful in a way that
>> was plausibly-kidding-but-really-not.
>>
>> And that's how I wound up spending months getting harassed, having my
>> sleep disturbed, by someone who felt entitled to treat me any way he liked.
>> Who respected my physical autonomy so little that he could threaten to hurt
>> me, and laugh when I was afraid, and touch me when I told him not to.
>>
>> Marina, we never agreed to that. I agreed to have some understanding of
>> Johnny's position of not remembering one thing he said due to being very
>> drunk, and acknowledging that there might be other factors at play, but
>> that's absolutely what happened.
>>
>> There was no talk of me being evicted or kicked out until he drunkenly
>> told me he'd "almost kicked me out like three times over sexual tension."
>> He doesn't remember this, but he said it.
>>
>> His email that tells me to get out was a direct reply to my email telling
>> him his behavior was inappropriate and scary and needed to stop.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016, 11:10 AM Lesley Bell <zvezdalune at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Marina,
>>>
>>> I appreciate your offer, and your past willingness to mediate. However,
>>> due to the results of the past mediation, I am not comfortable having you
>>> mediate at this time.
>>>
>>> Your repeated suggestion that Johnny might just be joking and I should
>>> reframe his insults/harassment as humor did not prove to be helpful, as
>>> evidenced by his subsequent criminal breaking and entering and physical
>>> assault. I also did not feel that his words in your presence were sincere,
>>> as he repeated some of his inappropriate behavior very soon afterward.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016, 10:56 AM Marc Juul <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, July 20, 2016, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> aside from any other issues, i sincerely doubt that this is a game to
>>>>> johnny given that he wants to participate in the space..
>>>>>
>>>>> let's focus on "restorative" instead of "retributive" - johnny seems
>>>>> (to me) to want to follow the process in a good faith way. for anyone who
>>>>> is more familiar with the omni and sudo remediation process than i am, any
>>>>> ideas on how to move forward from here?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Accusations are one thing but the way people choose to respond to
>>>> accusations is usually a very good predictor of whether they end up with a
>>>> resolved conflict and regaining access to the space.
>>>>
>>>> After Johnny's comments in this thread I predict that he will not be
>>>> allowed back any time soon.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 7:24 AM, robb <sf99er at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> #swish?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> really, this is all just a game to you johnny?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 3:46 AM, Patrik D'haeseleer <
>>>>>> patrikd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Johnny,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it true that Lesley's has a temporary restraining order against
>>>>>>> you? That seems to rise above mere "gossip and accusations", and seems like
>>>>>>> it would be substantial enough to trigger at least a temporary ban.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, it's the nature of interpersonal conflicts that there may not
>>>>>>> be any more than "accusations" available to make a decision on. So if
>>>>>>> someone states that they feel unsafe around another person, it may be
>>>>>>> justified to remove that other person from the space at least temporarily,
>>>>>>> until a better informed decision can be reached.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Patrik
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2016 2:16 AM, "Johnny" <mostmodernist at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> that link says if "someone's safety is at risk, a temporary ban may
>>>>>>> be placed".  it says nothing about how, and obviously is meant to deal with
>>>>>>> clear present safety issues, not gossip and accusations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> abusing that vague apparatus of the super-system to ban people on
>>>>>>> mere claims is totally fascist and supremacist behavior.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> defending it is also fascist.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> calling out for the record that Marc, Matt, Cere, Sigma, Jeremy are
>>>>>>> fascists for consent to abuse system and unjustly override process without
>>>>>>> sudo quorum; ya'll better not step on any cracks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 12:53 AM, Marc Juul <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Johnny <mostmodernist at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Marc,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No quorum you say?  Sub-Section 3.2.2 "Maintaining Safe Space
>>>>>>>>> During Conflict Resolution" states that my ban would have had to been
>>>>>>>>> ratified online without quorum.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The sudo room space, being part of Omni, is also subject to all
>>>>>>>> Omni rules, including the Omni safer space policy which I linked previously.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> marc/juul
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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