[sudo-discuss] johnny ban / process?
hol at gaskill.com
hol at gaskill.com
Wed Jul 20 15:52:57 PDT 2016
Worth taking another look at the referenced section where we enumerate
rights and possibly some discussion. Mediation / Stewarding takes alot
of time and energy and with the number of projects going on top of
subsistence level tasks, I don't believe anyone is entitled to the
efforts of already very thin-spread volunteers.
I've done mediation twice for sudo and it's certainly not something I'd
do for someone who shows zero respect for the space - no one should have
the expectation that because sudo room is a thing that exists, they are
owed something by it or its members before or even after demonstrating
any kind of goodwill.
I don't know any of the facts behind this other conflict that is being
brought into sudo room but part of the reason we have a conflict
resolution track is so these topics don't take over the communications
fora or meeting time. Since Marina has recused herself from this topic,
any volunteers here or has the bridge been burned down to the waterline?
On 2016-07-20 14:32, Scott Edmonds wrote:
> How does a housing conflict supersede use of a shared space? There are two sides to this story, please remember this in any decisions made.
>
> Best,
>
> Scott R. Edmonds
> Mobile: 1-510-928-3469
>
> On Jul 20, 2016, at 4:18 PM, Johnny <mostmodernist at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> LOL So in addition to being pre-judged and convicted by a kangaroo court of 4 sudoers at last week's meeting, I must also watch what words I used to express myself in defense of public accusations? Well, then, add patriarchal to fascist and supremacist tendencies, ye saviors of the oppressed!
>
> let's take it step by step:
> * 4 sudoers banned me without process or quorum, using superseding powers, just like fascists do
> * my privacy with regard to claims made has been violated
> * sudo room's own process has been hijacked, which was supposed to provide me with presumption of innocence and a few "rights", and the pretense of good will; and an actual process of resolution via mediation
> * I can't speak freely without repudiation and judgement
>
> But you can't take some words? Have a middle finger then!
>
> Thanks to your protocol, I have to absorb a continuation of a year's worth of harassment and abuse from lesley, now in public spectacle form, with accusations to supposed peers. Same shit, different levers. I'm being called all kinds of things here in this thread still, but I can't state I think some people's behavior is fascist and still expect fairness? Okay then!
>
> Ya'll know zero facts, and aren't even listening to one who has had firsthand experience with this conflict. There was zero evidence of unsafe behavior, or danger, to anybody. The information disparity you are acting on is beyond reproach, and is causing acute lunacy. Has anybody from last week's meeting even spoke up yet? Where you at, lil fascists?
>
> Btw, ya'lls high-winded "support of the oppressed" would not pass muster for many other oppressed people and communities, no matter how much you claim to protect them; it would look and smell like the systems used by people of privilege to enact continued systemic oppression, even while being oblivious to it.
>
> I do not have any desire to take part in mediation where I am straight jacketed while "the process" is manipulated by the accuser and a small faction of members. Sudo room done gave up sudo privileges when it acquiesced to the OMNI. As was noted above by another member, fairness cannot possibly be expected by oneself such as me.
>
> Ya'll can keep that rat in your trap.
>
> FYI: I had to formally evict kick Lesley out of our house on account of many other people she harassed and abused with these same tactics. In fact, more than one person here would accuse her of sexual harassment. I guess we should have taken it up with the high court of OMNI/sudo!
>
> I am her target now, because I am the only one who had authority to remove her from our house, and I did so, finally, despite our friendship, only after patiently attempting many, many times get mediation between her and others (she refused most attempts), and begging that she leave on her own, for the good of all. I did this with nothing but words and oaths and sadness, even as she began turning the accusations and harassment on me.
>
> And It was this same manipulative behavior to the landlord that precipitated my current eviction, which has sent several people in my community, all of them as vulnerable as lesley, running for cover elsewhere.
>
> If ya'll want some testimony from other of lesley's victims who got it worse than I am even now, and who can definitely not be mistaken for an able cis white male, i'll be glad to get it to you so you know what you're defending with your so-called process.
>
> Perhaps then yall dummies will understand why the omni and sudo have begun looking like a private club of privilege masquerading as the white knight for all oppressed people everywhere. Pick one please, and stop trying to fool the good people of Oakland.
>
> Meanwhile you're now safe-spacing an admitted and actual racist, supremacist, and misanthrope.
>
> And you refuse to react with reason, and haste, to this ironic and tainted breach of process, privacy, dignity, and cooperative spirit. Gotta get back to hacking the system!
>
> Yes, fascist is the right word. It's just right. You don't like? Eat it!
>
> You will be judged by the society you choose to keep, not your righteous self-identifications, proclamations, and fungible policies, despite your best intentions. Ya'll too comfortable.
>
> I'm not "taking this seriously", cuz that would make me ill, but I ain't joking either. Ya'll be breathing too much of your own righteous gas to think your notions of propriety and process are worth the trouble. Thanks for the solder.
>
> It's on ya'll to come correct, not me. Middle finger to your "process". I don't need lesley's harassment magnified on me by your social club's bugged protocol. I was happy as a clam to be rid of her at last.
>
> I'll give up all omni to be rid of one Lesley Bell. With hope that it prevents her doing oppressed people on the outside more harm, may the OMNI become the ONLY space she feels safe.
>
> peace signed,
> johnny
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 11:43 AM, Marc Juul <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
>
> On Wednesday, July 20, 2016, Lesley Bell <zvezdalune at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Marina,
>
> I appreciate your offer, and your past willingness to mediate. However, due to the results of the past mediation, I am not comfortable having you mediate at this time.
>
> Just to clarify: In this thread Marina was offering to act as Conflict Steward, not mediator.
>
> Your repeated suggestion that Johnny might just be joking and I should reframe his insults/harassment as humor did not prove to be helpful, as evidenced by his subsequent criminal breaking and entering and physical assault. I also did not feel that his words in your presence were sincere, as he repeated some of his inappropriate behavior very soon afterward.
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016, 10:56 AM Marc Juul <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
>
> On Wednesday, July 20, 2016, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> aside from any other issues, i sincerely doubt that this is a game to johnny given that he wants to participate in the space..
>
> let's focus on "restorative" instead of "retributive" - johnny seems (to me) to want to follow the process in a good faith way. for anyone who is more familiar with the omni and sudo remediation process than i am, any ideas on how to move forward from here?
>
> Accusations are one thing but the way people choose to respond to accusations is usually a very good predictor of whether they end up with a resolved conflict and regaining access to the space.
>
> After Johnny's comments in this thread I predict that he will not be allowed back any time soon.
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 7:24 AM, robb <sf99er at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> #swish?
>
> really, this is all just a game to you johnny?
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 3:46 AM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Johnny,
>
> Is it true that Lesley's has a temporary restraining order against you? That seems to rise above mere "gossip and accusations", and seems like it would be substantial enough to trigger at least a temporary ban.
>
> Also, it's the nature of interpersonal conflicts that there may not be any more than "accusations" available to make a decision on. So if someone states that they feel unsafe around another person, it may be justified to remove that other person from the space at least temporarily, until a better informed decision can be reached.
>
> Patrik
>
> On Jul 20, 2016 2:16 AM, "Johnny" <mostmodernist at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> that link says if "someone's safety is at risk, a temporary ban may be placed". it says nothing about how, and obviously is meant to deal with clear present safety issues, not gossip and accusations.
>
> abusing that vague apparatus of the super-system to ban people on mere claims is totally fascist and supremacist behavior.
>
> defending it is also fascist.
>
> calling out for the record that Marc, Matt, Cere, Sigma, Jeremy are fascists for consent to abuse system and unjustly override process without sudo quorum; ya'll better not step on any cracks!
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 12:53 AM, Marc Juul <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Johnny <mostmodernist at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Marc,
>
> No quorum you say? Sub-Section 3.2.2 "Maintaining Safe Space During Conflict Resolution" states that my ban would have had to been ratified online without quorum.
>
> The sudo room space, being part of Omni, is also subject to all Omni rules, including the Omni safer space policy which I linked previously.
>
> --
> marc/juul
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