[sudo-discuss] johnny ban / process?
hol at gaskill.com
hol at gaskill.com
Wed Jul 20 15:56:52 PDT 2016
Thank you Jake! Everyone please channel comms on this topic his way and
not onto this public list.
On 2016-07-20 15:55, Jake wrote:
> I volunteer to mediate this conflict.
>
> On Wed, 20 Jul 2016, hol at gaskill.com wrote:
>
>> Worth taking another look at the referenced section where we enumerate
>> rights and possibly some discussion. Mediation / Stewarding takes
>> alot
>> of time and energy and with the number of projects going on top of
>> subsistence level tasks, I don't believe anyone is entitled to the
>> efforts of already very thin-spread volunteers.
>>
>> I've done mediation twice for sudo and it's certainly not something
>> I'd
>> do for someone who shows zero respect for the space - no one should
>> have
>> the expectation that because sudo room is a thing that exists, they
>> are
>> owed something by it or its members before or even after demonstrating
>> any kind of goodwill.
>>
>> I don't know any of the facts behind this other conflict that is being
>> brought into sudo room but part of the reason we have a conflict
>> resolution track is so these topics don't take over the communications
>> fora or meeting time. Since Marina has recused herself from this
>> topic,
>> any volunteers here or has the bridge been burned down to the
>> waterline?
>> On 2016-07-20 14:32, Scott Edmonds wrote:
>>
>>> How does a housing conflict supersede use of a shared space? There
>>> are two sides to this story, please remember this in any decisions
>>> made.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Scott R. Edmonds
>>> Mobile: 1-510-928-3469
>>>
>>> On Jul 20, 2016, at 4:18 PM, Johnny <mostmodernist at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> LOL So in addition to being pre-judged and convicted by a kangaroo
>>> court of 4 sudoers at last week's meeting, I must also watch what
>>> words I used to express myself in defense of public accusations?
>>> Well, then, add patriarchal to fascist and supremacist tendencies, ye
>>> saviors of the oppressed!
>>>
>>> let's take it step by step:
>>> * 4 sudoers banned me without process or quorum, using superseding
>>> powers, just like fascists do
>>> * my privacy with regard to claims made has been violated
>>> * sudo room's own process has been hijacked, which was supposed to
>>> provide me with presumption of innocence and a few "rights", and the
>>> pretense of good will; and an actual process of resolution via
>>> mediation
>>> * I can't speak freely without repudiation and judgement
>>>
>>> But you can't take some words? Have a middle finger then!
>>>
>>> Thanks to your protocol, I have to absorb a continuation of a year's
>>> worth of harassment and abuse from lesley, now in public spectacle
>>> form, with accusations to supposed peers. Same shit, different
>>> levers. I'm being called all kinds of things here in this thread
>>> still, but I can't state I think some people's behavior is fascist
>>> and still expect fairness? Okay then!
>>>
>>> Ya'll know zero facts, and aren't even listening to one who has had
>>> firsthand experience with this conflict. There was zero evidence of
>>> unsafe behavior, or danger, to anybody. The information disparity
>>> you are acting on is beyond reproach, and is causing acute lunacy.
>>> Has anybody from last week's meeting even spoke up yet? Where you
>>> at, lil fascists?
>>>
>>> Btw, ya'lls high-winded "support of the oppressed" would not pass
>>> muster for many other oppressed people and communities, no matter how
>>> much you claim to protect them; it would look and smell like the
>>> systems used by people of privilege to enact continued systemic
>>> oppression, even while being oblivious to it.
>>>
>>> I do not have any desire to take part in mediation where I am
>>> straight jacketed while "the process" is manipulated by the accuser
>>> and a small faction of members. Sudo room done gave up sudo
>>> privileges when it acquiesced to the OMNI. As was noted above by
>>> another member, fairness cannot possibly be expected by oneself such
>>> as me.
>>>
>>> Ya'll can keep that rat in your trap.
>>>
>>> FYI: I had to formally evict kick Lesley out of our house on account
>>> of many other people she harassed and abused with these same tactics.
>>> In fact, more than one person here would accuse her of sexual
>>> harassment. I guess we should have taken it up with the high court
>>> of OMNI/sudo!
>>>
>>> I am her target now, because I am the only one who had authority to
>>> remove her from our house, and I did so, finally, despite our
>>> friendship, only after patiently attempting many, many times get
>>> mediation between her and others (she refused most attempts), and
>>> begging that she leave on her own, for the good of all. I did this
>>> with nothing but words and oaths and sadness, even as she began
>>> turning the accusations and harassment on me.
>>>
>>> And It was this same manipulative behavior to the landlord that
>>> precipitated my current eviction, which has sent several people in my
>>> community, all of them as vulnerable as lesley, running for cover
>>> elsewhere.
>>>
>>> If ya'll want some testimony from other of lesley's victims who got
>>> it worse than I am even now, and who can definitely not be mistaken
>>> for an able cis white male, i'll be glad to get it to you so you know
>>> what you're defending with your so-called process.
>>>
>>> Perhaps then yall dummies will understand why the omni and sudo have
>>> begun looking like a private club of privilege masquerading as the
>>> white knight for all oppressed people everywhere. Pick one please,
>>> and stop trying to fool the good people of Oakland.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile you're now safe-spacing an admitted and actual racist,
>>> supremacist, and misanthrope.
>>>
>>> And you refuse to react with reason, and haste, to this ironic and
>>> tainted breach of process, privacy, dignity, and cooperative spirit.
>>> Gotta get back to hacking the system!
>>>
>>> Yes, fascist is the right word. It's just right. You don't like?
>>> Eat it!
>>>
>>> You will be judged by the society you choose to keep, not your
>>> righteous self-identifications, proclamations, and fungible policies,
>>> despite your best intentions. Ya'll too comfortable.
>>>
>>> I'm not "taking this seriously", cuz that would make me ill, but I
>>> ain't joking either. Ya'll be breathing too much of your own
>>> righteous gas to think your notions of propriety and process are
>>> worth the trouble. Thanks for the solder.
>>>
>>> It's on ya'll to come correct, not me. Middle finger to your
>>> "process". I don't need lesley's harassment magnified on me by your
>>> social club's bugged protocol. I was happy as a clam to be rid of her
>>> at last.
>>>
>>> I'll give up all omni to be rid of one Lesley Bell. With hope that
>>> it prevents her doing oppressed people on the outside more harm, may
>>> the OMNI become the ONLY space she feels safe.
>>>
>>> peace signed,
>>> johnny
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 11:43 AM, Marc Juul <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, July 20, 2016, Lesley Bell <zvezdalune at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Marina,
>>>
>>> I appreciate your offer, and your past willingness to mediate.
>>> However, due to the results of the past mediation, I am not
>>> comfortable having you mediate at this time.
>>>
>>> Just to clarify: In this thread Marina was offering to act as
>>> Conflict Steward, not mediator.
>>>
>>> Your repeated suggestion that Johnny might just be joking and I
>>> should reframe his insults/harassment as humor did not prove to be
>>> helpful, as evidenced by his subsequent criminal breaking and
>>> entering and physical assault. I also did not feel that his words in
>>> your presence were sincere, as he repeated some of his inappropriate
>>> behavior very soon afterward.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016, 10:56 AM Marc Juul <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, July 20, 2016, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> aside from any other issues, i sincerely doubt that this is a game to
>>> johnny given that he wants to participate in the space..
>>>
>>> let's focus on "restorative" instead of "retributive" - johnny seems
>>> (to me) to want to follow the process in a good faith way. for anyone
>>> who is more familiar with the omni and sudo remediation process than
>>> i am, any ideas on how to move forward from here?
>>>
>>> Accusations are one thing but the way people choose to respond to
>>> accusations is usually a very good predictor of whether they end up
>>> with a resolved conflict and regaining access to the space.
>>>
>>> After Johnny's comments in this thread I predict that he will not be
>>> allowed back any time soon.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 7:24 AM, robb <sf99er at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> #swish?
>>>
>>> really, this is all just a game to you johnny?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 3:46 AM, Patrik D'haeseleer
>>> <patrikd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Johnny,
>>>
>>> Is it true that Lesley's has a temporary restraining order against
>>> you? That seems to rise above mere "gossip and accusations", and
>>> seems like it would be substantial enough to trigger at least a
>>> temporary ban.
>>>
>>> Also, it's the nature of interpersonal conflicts that there may not
>>> be any more than "accusations" available to make a decision on. So if
>>> someone states that they feel unsafe around another person, it may be
>>> justified to remove that other person from the space at least
>>> temporarily, until a better informed decision can be reached.
>>>
>>> Patrik
>>>
>>> On Jul 20, 2016 2:16 AM, "Johnny" <mostmodernist at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> that link says if "someone's safety is at risk, a temporary ban may
>>> be placed". it says nothing about how, and obviously is meant to
>>> deal with clear present safety issues, not gossip and accusations.
>>>
>>> abusing that vague apparatus of the super-system to ban people on
>>> mere claims is totally fascist and supremacist behavior.
>>>
>>> defending it is also fascist.
>>>
>>> calling out for the record that Marc, Matt, Cere, Sigma, Jeremy are
>>> fascists for consent to abuse system and unjustly override process
>>> without sudo quorum; ya'll better not step on any cracks!
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 12:53 AM, Marc Juul <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Johnny <mostmodernist at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Marc,
>>>
>>> No quorum you say? Sub-Section 3.2.2 "Maintaining Safe Space During
>>> Conflict Resolution" states that my ban would have had to been
>>> ratified online without quorum.
>>>
>>> The sudo room space, being part of Omni, is also subject to all Omni
>>> rules, including the Omni safer space policy which I linked
>>> previously.
>>>
>>> --
>>> marc/juul
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