[sudo-discuss] Incident with Steeve of Sudoroom.
jake at spaz.org
Thu Mar 15 15:24:15 PDT 2018
I was not satisfied with how this issue was treated at the meeting last night,
basically people started leaving and Melissa started yelling at Robert and I,
and while a conflict steward was selected (Dante) for Robert and Steve's
mediation, I didn't feel that people took seriously the issues that I brought
up which were actually separate from the specific attack against Robert.
I am asking for guidance on how to proceed with involving people at Sudoroom
(and Omni-wide) who have concerns with Steve's behavior and what we can do
about it, to make sure that he isn't excluding people from our space with his
unchecked behavior (as is happening now)
And I want to start a discussion/mediation that doesn't involve really angry
people screaming at each other across a meeting until everybody leaves. It's
not OK and i'm not willing to just move on and pretend everything is fine
because it's easier than dealing with the problem.
On Thu, 15 Mar 2018, Robert Chu wrote:
> After taking some time to think about this after the meeting. I ONLY feel
> comfortable with Steven in the space if the following criteria is met:
> Instead of Banning Steven for a set amount of time, I feel the following
> compromise is admirable, and if no progress is made from this, then he be
> asked to leave the space:
> 1. Steven's key access be revoked for one month from the space, and only
> granted access back, after the community and Steven, has come together to
> review progress, and positive changes, in the problematic behavior patterns
> that have been detrimental to the space. Only then if everyone is in
> agreement, then card access will be granted again.
> 2. Steven is only allow into the space if he is chaperoned by a mentor /
> voucher / member / liaison, who is present while he is in the space (a
> person would also be a mediary between him and myself)
> 3. That there is active mediation happening (not rushed), through out the
> month with myself, and also with others whom have been sick and disrupted
> by his behavior, for whatever reason i.e.use of the space (specifically
> using this space as his house, and being territorial about it, and leaving
> messes). With coordination from the mediation-stewart and mediator.
> The Member-Mentor-Voucher-Liaison would vouch for Steven, will partly be
> held accountable for any negative conduct, and also be able to work with
> him directly to catch small things that maybe problematic.
> - Exhibits a reasonable lack of self control
> - Rudeness (carrying on as if he owns Sudoroom, is an A-hole to anyone that
> tries to give constructive, positive feedback, on usage or behavior of the
> - Violate the SAFE SPACE POLICY
> - Be aggressive or hostile toward anybody (repetitious I know)
> - Dissisruptive yelling and/or outbursts (I will even ask another person to
> ask him to leave if he has disruptive outbursts (as two meetings were
> disrupted because of them.
> - Verbal aggression anybody (and anything beyond that)
> - Not claiming a specific work area/space as his own (camping out/being
> hostile, or territorial about others working there)
> - Not making a mess, - Not storing person items (unless they are
> projects-NO PERSONAL STORAGE)
> - I feel a month would be a sufficient for him to develop healthier habits
> for a more productive space overall.
> We all come from different backgrounds, and some communication styles or
> lack therefore of sometimes need updating, and addressing.
> Problematic people do come to the Omnis (for whatever reason(s). As a
> community it is up to us to be able to come together, put *some *community
> investment together, to try to help/guide/coach/mentor that person to what
> is acceptable (not net/negative), behaviour. And only then, only after
> some community investment, has been put forth, we can clearly see if a
> person will continue on as a disruption to the community, shall we ask that
> person to definitely leave the space as (it would be net-negative).
> The only shelter the Omni-commons is, is a shelter for the community to be
> able to be a community. Not a place to shelter an individual's community
> destructive behaviours. I think all of this as clearly as follows: If a
> person's behaviors are having a tangible, net-negative impact on the
> community (could be limited to one space), then they need to be addressed
> (within reason). If that person does not have the capacity to change for
> the overall health of the community, then that person must leave.
> As stated in the beginning I would only feel comfortable with Steven in the
> community ONLY he agreed to these requests, as I feel that a month of
> additional guidance would help catalyst healthier behavior patterns, and
> the community (including Steven) would coexist more seamlessly together.
> The verbal assault altercation and clearly ignoring my requests all day to
> not speak to me, is definitely an extreme, and in a lot of places he would
> have been kicked out no questions asked!!! But I feel that he has the
> ability to grow past this. As the victim of such abuse, I feel the typed
> above would suffice, even though I am still uneasy about the situation.
> As in the famous words of are neighboring hackerspace "Be excellent to each
> other dudes." They just left out "And work on excellence toward each
> other." (If there is a lack therefore of).
> This is not to attack him, but to help coach new growth and ways, so that
> all of what we are going through doesn't arise again. To me this is not a
> community issue. It is a community including Steven issue.
> Thanks for reading, and sorry if this is longer than a dissertation...
> I will discuss with the Mediator and Mediatior. Stewart
> H at kThEpLaNeT2G3thR
> - RAYC
> Robert Albert Young Chu
> "Radiant Ambition Yields Change."
> Call or Text :415-724-0425
> Email: robert.chu01 at gmail.com
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 2:53 PM, robb <sf99er at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 11:36 AM, Robert Chu <robert.chu01 at gmail.com>
>>> Also if people think I am being to dramatic when I state "bullying", here
>>> is an excerpt from the Bullying page of Wikipedia
>>> "Bullying can be defined in many different ways. The United Kingdom of
>>> Great Britain and Northern Ireland
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom> has no legal definition
>>> of bullying, <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying#cite_note-6> while
>>> some states in the United States
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States> have laws against it.
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying#cite_note-7> Bullying is divided
>>> into four basic types of abuse – emotional
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_abuse> (sometimes called
>>> relational), verbal <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verbal_abuse>,
>>> physical <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_abuse>, and cyber.
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying#cite_note-8> It typically
>>> involves subtle methods of coercion, such as intimidation.
>>> - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying
>>> HIs actions reflected emotional abuse and verbal abuse, used to try to
>>> intimidate me.
>>> I also think it is bullying because he thought I might be to scared or
>>> (dominated over) to do something about it, either that or I am not entirely
>>> sure if he is aware of his own actions.
>>> I stand against bullying, stand up for people being bullied, and choose
>>> not to be a victim of bullying.
>>> I don't have any friends or associates in my life that are bullies, or
>>> treat me in a disrespectful way. Which is why I really don't even feel
>>> comfortable mediating this with him at the current time.
>>> Thank you for reading
>>> Robert Albert Young Chu
>>> "Radiant Ambition Yields Change."
>>> Call or Text :415-724-0425 <(415)%20724-0425>
>>> Email: robert.chu01 at gmail.com
>>> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 11:28 AM, Robert Chu <robert.chu01 at gmail.com>
>>>> Hello Robb, thank you for your volunteering to do so. After reflecting
>>>> off of this for three days. I am still a bit shaken over the incident, and
>>>> don't think I even wish to mediate currently, my hands were truly shaking
>>>> for about two hours after his barrage of verbal assaults toward me. I don't
>>>> really even feel comfortable talking through a mediator with him as well at
>>>> the current time.
>>>> He tried bullying me to force me to feel sorry for him, for something in
>>>> which I clearly had done no wrong. He got pissed that I moved "his table",
>>>> because it had his laptop bag attached to it. "THERE IS NO PERSONAL STORAGE
>>>> AT SUDOROOM", if he didn't violate this, then this would not have
>>>> Then I told him how I felt, not to talk to me and was insulted.
>>>> (assertion of dominance, again).
>>>> IMHO through his actions, he straight up bullied me and I defended
>>>> myself by contacting another Sudoroom member for support and advice on the
>>>> matter (who lucky enough was able to pick up during working business
>>>> hours). I felt like I was being whipped mentally everytime he would yell
>>>> over me yelling "F**K You" multiple times." And lying about owning a table.
>>>> I don't tolerate people like that and don't engage with them at all.
>>>> Currently in my life I am not friends, or even associated with anyone, who
>>>> acts in such ways at all.
>>>> THE SAFE SPACE POLICY WAS CLEARLY VIOLATED AS WELL!!!
>>>> Thank you Robb once again stepping up, and your support.
>>>> (even writing this is still eating at the back of my head)
>>>> Robert Albert Young Chu
>>>> "Radiant Ambition Yields Change."
>>>> Call or Text :415-724-0425 <(415)%20724-0425>
>>>> Email: robert.chu01 at gmail.com
>>>> On Sat, Mar 10, 2018 at 12:38 PM, robb <sf99er at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> if either party wishes for someone to help mediate this matter, i am
>>>>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 4:09 PM, Steve Leach <stevenaleach at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To the group as a whole, I apologizing for causing Robert stress, I
>>>>>> did yell at him outside the Omni, though only with the intent of
>>>>>> re-expressing something that I had expressed the previous day in a more
>>>>>> clear and somewhat comedic manner. It seemed that perhaps with his high
>>>>>> energy level, my normal tone the previous day had not registered because I
>>>>>> hadn't bothered to sound upset. So today I intentionally let him know that
>>>>>> I was upset. Now - the issue at hand is something I set myself up for: most
>>>>>> nights, especially when it is raining, I have made it a habit of leaving my
>>>>>> laptop in a basket under a table at the front. There's no pressing reason
>>>>>> to leave it there - my little abode is waterproof and lockable, but not
>>>>>> while I am asleep, and the unlikely scenario of someone opening the door
>>>>>> while I'm unconscious and managing to walk off with my irreplaceable gear
>>>>>> means I've felt safer leaving it semi-secured inside the building rather
>>>>>> than with me at night. Two days in a row, however, I found the basket with
>>>>>> my laptop bag sitting forlorn and alone in the middle of the floor in the
>>>>>> general 'donataions/hack-this' zone where I couldn't blame anyone if they
>>>>>> would have come before me and adopted it. I grumbled good naturedly at
>>>>>> Robert yesterday, just to point out the situation that resulted when the
>>>>>> table went away and suggested he should have taken the other table of the
>>>>>> pair -- or move the basket under the remaining table instead. Today, I
>>>>>> found the same scenario repeated and decided to actually show that I was
>>>>>> upset. If this apparently frightened or caused stress to Robert, I'm sorry
>>>>>> - that was neither my intention nor at all expected. I just chose to be a
>>>>>> little more theatrical and high energy in communicating with a boisterous
>>>>>> high energy individual who had disregarded my previous attempts at
>>>>>> communication. That he apparently mistook this as threatening is
>>>>>> unfortunate and unexpected - again, I was just trying to more match his
>>>>>> normal energy level and boisterousness since my more flat and
>>>>>> matter-of-fact communication previously had not worked. Again, sorry to all
>>>>>> for causing any unneeded chaos, and in the future I will avoid the problem
>>>>>> by simply keeping my laptop with me at night and therefore not having to
>>>>>> worry about it.
>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> *First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you,
>>>>> then you win*.
>>>>> - Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:
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>> *First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then
>> you win*.
>> - Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:
>> The contents of this email message and any attachments are intended solely
>> for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged
>> information and may be legally protected from disclosure. If you are not
>> the intended recipient of this message or their agent, or if this message
>> has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by
>> reply email and then delete this message and any attachments. If you are
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