[Sudo-kids] From our landlord & future of sudo kids

[Marina Kukso]

Hi Carolyn,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the future of sudo kids.

Please don't consider yourself "responsible" - ultimately George and Laurie
are responsible as they are the ones who have said that no kids are to be
allowed in the space at this time. Having a lot of people is a good problem
to have, even if it's one that we were not fully prepared to meet.

- Marina


On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Carolyn Lunger <carolyn.lunger at yahoo.com>wrote:

>
> Hi all:
>
> I cannot come tonight to the meeting for obvious reasons. My husband is
> working late tonight and I have the kids with me.  I do want to add if
> you tell me what to do I will do it in terms of getting Sudo Kids room back
> on its feet as I feel somewhat responsible in the sense that I did invite
> quite a bit of people and heard from many people that they were interested.
>
>
> Carolyn
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* Carolyn Lunger <carolyn.lunger at yahoo.com>
> *To:* Marina Kukso <marina.kukso at gmail.com>; "sudo-kids at lists.sudoroom.org"
> <sudo-kids at lists.sudoroom.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 18, 2013 5:30 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Sudo-kids] From our landlord & future of sudo kids
>
> Hi all:
>
> Giving George's recent rant and the effect it had on my daughter and all
> these emails from the co-owner (the whole rant about recycling/garbage,
> access to the public and she is still stuck on the idea that it is
> childcare) and finding out there is no insurance, I cannot say we will be
> able to return to Sudo Kids and I would not feel comfortable telling others
> about it unless:
>
> 1) Sudo Kids is held in a different location
> 2) Has some kind of liability or insurance
> 3) Strict rules that parents need to be involved and present at the
> facility
>
> In that note, I do believe that Hackerscouts has a really good setup on
> how to run things for kids and working collaboratively would be a good idea
> to start with so that Sudo Kids won't run into future problems. I am pretty
> busy and not a full member of Sudo Room but willing to help Sudo Kids get
> back and running as I believe that this is a good thing for the kids and
> the community. As you can see with the amount of kids that showed up the
> last couple of times that this kind of community/environment/activity is
> wanted.
>
> There was yet another open lab at Hackerscouts on Sunday and it was PACKED
> with people. We could barely move around. I am not saying I want it exactly
> like Hackerscouts as my children told me that the part they like about Sudo
> Kids was also the down time or hang out time. They liked the unstructured
> aspects about it as well. However that can lead to other complications as
> well which is all out basic chaos with running around and such.
>
> Carolyn
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* Marina Kukso <marina.kukso at gmail.com>
> *To:* "sudo-kids at lists.sudoroom.org" <sudo-kids at lists.sudoroom.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 18, 2013 4:26 PM
> *Subject:* [Sudo-kids] From our landlord & future of sudo kids
>
> hi all,
>
> during this evening's meeting we'll be discussing how best to address
> laurie's last message below. as you can see, a number of issues are tied
> together here, including having children in the space. all of you are
> welcome this evening to help us come up with a solution to this situation.
>
> additionally, while we're on pause for tuesday evenings, this is a good
> time to evaluate where we want to go with sudo kids. what do we envision as
> the future of this program? how much and what can we contribute to making
> it happen? what needs to happen in order for sudo kids to be a success? is
> once a week in the evenings a good time? how should programming be
> organized, etc?
>
> i'll start:
>
> - my bandwidth for helping organize sudo kids and being present at sudo
> room every tuesday night is rapidly shrinking and i'm afraid i can't take
> on any new obligations at this time.
> - with the larger # of kids the last few times, i didn't feel that we were
> able to provide the kind of adult support that i'd like to see for the
> kinds of things that i envision sudo kids to be about: hacking, making
> stuff, learning, etc.
> - i think that in order to move forward, an insurance/waiver situation
> will be necessary. it will be necessary for someone to investigate the
> options and then for us to figure out a way to pay for it. i can't do this
> right now :(
> - one way to move forward would be to partner with other organizations
> and/or become a chapter or affiliate of a larger program. one option here
> would be to pursue a possible collaboration with hackerscouts (who are
> looking for a new place and may be open to collaboration ...i am currently
> not able to start conversations with those folks about this).
> - finally, there is the option of getting a separate sudo kids space,
> whether it's one of the other rooms at 2141, or a separate space entirely.
> this would involve looking for locations,finding enough people to commit to
> paying a regular share of the rent, etc. etc. i can't take the lead on this
> process either.
>
> all right, that's it for me! what do others think?
>
> - marina
>
> Forwarded conversation
> Subject: *[sudo-discuss] Fwd: Children/Security/Janitorial issues.....*
> ------------------------
>
> From: *Matthew Senate* <mattsenate at gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 9:16 PM
> To: sudo-discuss <sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: *Laurie Cooperman Rosen* <Lscoop at comcast.net>
> Date: Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 6:03 PM
> Subject: RE: Children/Security/Janitorial issues.....
> To: Matthew Senate <mattsenate at gmail.com>
>
>
> Hi Matthew…****
> I think a meeting would be best because there are so many issues.  I agree
> that the confrontation was bad, and that George has a problem  when
> something hurts him deeply.  Hopefully those who know him understand that
> he has a huge heart, and repays kindness with kindness, but has a hard time
> handling any type of abuse relating to people, animals or the building, and
> he simply can’t control his emotions and what he says when a violent
> incident occurs that is uncalled for.  Accusations were not made at a
> particular person but there was ranting about the lack of control in the
> evenings and lack of responsibility/training/accountability for those using
> the premises that allowed this to happen, and in that he was righteous. **
> **
> The problem boils down to the security in the building.  Doors are being
> left open in the evening and are not being monitored. People not affiliated
> with the group having an event can enter, hide, and do what they want later
> (which only by INCREDIBLE luck has not been grand theft thus far).  We
> won’t be able to continue the late hours and will have to shut the building
> down after a certain time in the evening UNLESS we have a direct
> responsible person on-site that is trustworthy, has his/her own security
> code, and is fully conversant with the shutting down procedures and who
> also knows which doors should be shut (and when) throughout the entire 2141
> floor during the evening.  It’s not ok for The Sudo Room (or the Public
> School) to leave it to the last member staying late to shut down and
> monitor what is happening in the building if that person is not trained and
> knowledgeable and does not have his/her own security code.****
> Sometimes people in 2141 leave the door from the office corridor to the
> bathrooms open when they should not.  This has never been a problem until
> recently, when traffic started coming in from the rear door.  In the past
> all traffic came in from the front door.   The person in charge should make
> sure that the rear door from the bathrooms into that corridor is always
> locked throughout the evening.****
> We have fixed the lock on the 22nd St. entrance so there should no longer
> be a reason to keep that door open during non-business hours (during
> business hours when certain hair stylists are there it might be kept open,
> because the stylists can’t use your security buzz-in system….something that
> should be rectified and would help building security IMMENSELY.  I have
> also noticed that even when not being buzzed in the elevator is always
> accessible…something that should not be the case).  ****
> We are now getting calls up until as late as 3am on a fairly regular basis
> (one at 3am this past weekend—usually more like until 11:30 on weekdays and
> 12-12:30am on weekends), and it is almost at the point where we are
> throwing our hands up and saying “don’t send the police” at a time when it
> is possible that a robbery COULD be in process or the building could be
> open to theft in the middle of the night, because we don’t know who is in
> charge or who to call at that hour.  ****
> For our part, we need to put in more cameras in a couple of places,
> although I will draw the line at having them in a restroom stall.  We met
> the gentleman who was likely the last person there the night of the awful
> event, and we believe that although his group was not directly responsible,
> he did say that nobody checked the restrooms before leaving, which should
> not have been the case.  For both security and for those that arrive in the
> morning, we are now asking that after every evening group meets that the
> restrooms be checked, excess trash disposed of and paper towels/toilet
> paper replaced as needed.  We have never been responsible for cleanup after
> events and since what has been happening there has been way beyond normal
> usage, we ask that you get together with the Public School to purchase some
> extra toilet paper/paper towels to keep on hand and to make sure that the
> restrooms are clean, stocked and ready for use when folks arrive in the
> a.m.  The person in charge for the evening (see more on that below) should
> be in charge of that (janitorial/security) aspect as well.  We will
> continue to come in late afternoons to take care of trash that builds up
> during the daytime.  In order for this to happen we will ask on every
> evening if your groups have people there after 9pm that we have the
> name/phone number of the person on the premises who will be closing up and
> whom we can contact in case of security issues.  It is possible for you
> (and a couple of others from The Sudo Room & Public School as designated by
> us) to be able to give people temporary codes for the security system if a
> person is trained but will not have access to the building on a regular
> basis.  The responsible people may give out “one time” security codes as
> needed, with the ability to call those codes in directly to Sonitrol (you
> would use your own passcode when  calling them, and then give them the name
> of the temporary person and temporary passcode) as the responsible person
> allowed to give out additional temporary codes.    ****
> Also, George had me take care of the recycling on Saturday while he was
> dealing with the restroom incident.  We should not have to be doing that.
> It took at least an hour to sort through the massive amount of glass to
> make sure that the insides of the bottles were cleaned out and that the
> plastic and glass (recyclable) was separated from the cans (which are
> returned for deposit).  In that mess was also a modicum of some gross
> garbage that found its way into the recycling.  We ask that this be done
> for us (glass-plastic separated, washed, into one set of plastic bags, and
> clean rinsed aluminum cans into another) and we will be happy to continue
> to haul them away, unless you prefer to haul them away yourselves—at this
> time the aluminum cans bring in a small amount of money after amassed for a
> month or two but the rest goes in our recycle can at home.   When unwashed
> they attract all kinds of bugs and animals which is why they need to be
> cleaned out if we are to take them.****
> I think that this and the other message covers all of the main issues.
> There is more to discuss if a related but separate group wants to be
> holding some child care sessions on the premises, but I think that should
> be via a conversation with all parties present to address issues of
> permits, security, insurance and likely additional rent.****
> I think this is a fairly thorough response to most of the items, except
> the one (child care) that will require more discussion, because we don’t
> want to see anybody spend money for permitting or separate child care
> insurance until a more full understanding and agreement is made between all
> participating parties.  Obviously, at this point in a lot of ways it would
> be much easier if the Sudo Room and related parties were to expand into
> some additional space so that more of our costs for that space are covered
> and so that we can put some better security features in place and have less
> worry about constantly having to clear out excess furnishings, objects and
> garbage that do not belong in the large common space, as well as our
> complete inability to rent out space to unrelated parties on any regular
> basis with the way the space is being used.  At this point the headaches,
> stress, lack of sleep (for us) and stress on the building contents (i.e.
> walls, carpeting) and vulnerability of the building and its tenants are not
> aligned with the amount of rent received from your groups.  That is not in
> any way to say that we don’t support and love what your groups are
> doing……just that we very much would like to have it work and be a win-win
> for all of us, without putting our other tenants at risk.****
> Your thoughts would be much appreciated.****
> Laurie****
> ** **
>
>
>
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