[sudo-discuss] IRC bot automation of parliamentary procedure with human code-audit openness
d'É-Aatenhejm
timondocent at gmail.com
Wed Jan 30 23:44:05 PST 2013
Seconded. Extraspecially yummy.
How can I help?
If Jen + Mark are willing, we could use ourselves as a test case, or try
to resolve the same thing we resolve naturally when Mark gets back, via
IRC, too, to test the bot. I recommend "literate programming" as being
both geek and non-geek friendly (and I like ECMAscript, squeak, Python,
and UNICODE/multilingualism as tools).
Timon: Tel=voice=+1.415.900.8233; internet every 72 hours or so, for now.
On 1/30/13 11:10 PM, Garrett Robinson wrote:
> We discussed giving a Sudoroom IRC bot operator privileges at the last
> (not tonight's) weekly meeting. While just giving the bot ops
> privileges only moves the problem another layer away (to whoever can
> control the bot), I was thinking about programming it with behavior to
> enforce community guidelines.
>
> For example, if a user is misbehaving in the channel, other users
> could priv msg the bot until a quorum is reached that allows the bot
> to kick the misbehaving user.
>
> Allowing a bot to do this using policies that we have agreed upon
> (running open source code of course) would be the best solution to
> this problem IMHO.
>
> I have been working on a bot in node.js (mostly as a way to improve my
> javascript) that is almost ready to be implemented in the channel. We
> should compare code, see which codebase it would make sense to move
> forward with, and implement this!
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Matthew Meier <wolfy at wlfy.it
> <mailto:wolfy at wlfy.it>> wrote:
>
> Just wanted to advertise that I had it as an option.
>
> I didn't write any direct control into the bot thus far. But the
> thing about a bot is that the community could control it. It
> could, without emotion, act on the IRC policies we program it to know.
>
> -Wolfy
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:44 PM, David Rorex <drorex at gmail.com
> <mailto:drorex at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> How is the bot any better than using the built in ChanServ
> features?
> And don't you end up with the same problem of deciding who gets to
> control the bot?
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Matthew Meier <wolfy at wlfy.it
> <mailto:wolfy at wlfy.it>> wrote:
> > I've also written an IRC bot in python. super basic that can
> ops people from
> > a list. It works with server messages directly too so i can
> write it to
> > perform any other actions that would be beneficial to our
> IRC channel and
> > policy.
> >
> > Just throwing that out there.
> >
> > -Wolfy
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Matthew Senate
> <mattsenate at gmail.com <mailto:mattsenate at gmail.com>>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> OKAY, I've added some more to the conflict resolution item
> on our agenda
> >> tonight: https://pad.riseup.net/p/sudoroom
> >>
> >> // Matt
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:15 PM, rachel lyra hospodar
> >> <rachelyra at gmail.com <mailto:rachelyra at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> i think this reply is dismissive and it makes me sadfaced.
> >>>
> >>> Yardena is talking about much deeper and more insidious,
> and potentially
> >>> divisive, issues than typos or spelling. If you think her
> concerns are
> >>> boring, then you could easily ignore them and stay silent
> without being
> >>> dismissive and rude.
> >>>
> >>> Yardena did an awesome job of facilitating meetings for 6
> straight hours
> >>> last week... it seems to me like anyone who enjoyed that
> experience with her
> >>> might take a moment to give a damn about her concerns.
> >>>
> >>> Multiple folks have suggested it would be good to have a
> clear IRC
> >>> policy. That seems like a good next step. Maybe a wiki
> page, seeded with
> >>> Yardena's suggestion here? I am not active on the channel
> so am not sure if
> >>> it makes sense for me to be too involved in that process...?
> >>>
> >>> R.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 1/30/2013 1:07 PM, Clarence Beeks wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Do you know why America is awesome? We have the time and
> privilege and
> >>>> resources to argue
> >>>> over replacing a "Y" with a "J".
> >>>>
> >>>> I can't wait for the next comet.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Yardena Cohen
> <yardenack at gmail.com <mailto:yardenack at gmail.com>
> >>>> <mailto:yardenack at gmail.com
> <mailto:yardenack at gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> >> Apparently the Sudo folk with admin privileges to
> the #sudoroom
> >>>> IRC channel are jealously resistant to sharing control,
> >>>>
> >>>> > This is not the case. Jordana and Tunabananas have
> operator
> >>>> privileges and can perform any sort of moderation
> they desire. If
> >>>> you have an issue with the content of #sudoroom,
> creating a new
> >>>> channel will not solve that problem.
> >>>>
> >>>> I avoided replying to this right away, because I was
> too angry and
> >>>> creeped out over being called "Jordana." He did this
> once before in
> >>>> the IRC while at the same time talking about me with
> male pronouns
> >>>> (he/his) - he knows better, so I took this as
> targeted harassment,
> >>>> or
> >>>> at the very least disingenuous passive aggressive
> participation in
> >>>> the
> >>>> trolling games that have been going on lately. He's
> apologized to me
> >>>> in private since then but I just want to register
> that joking about
> >>>> hackerspace wars can be fun, but actually gaslighting
> each other is
> >>>> NOT fun. It can be scary, intimidating, and seriously
> compromise the
> >>>> accessibility and diversity of our community.
> >>>>
> >>>> As to the substance, he's absolutely right that we
> have op
> >>>> privileges,
> >>>> but this obscures a few things. For technical
> background, I
> >>>> encourage
> >>>> people to read about the difference between +F and
> +o. Your best
> >>>> guide
> >>>> will be logging onto freenode and typing: "/msg
> chanserv help flags"
> >>>> but more general guides are online:
> >>>>
> >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRC#Modes
> >>>> https://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml
> >>>>
> >>>> There've been conflicts over how to run the channel.
> Namely:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1) The person with +F has used his privileges to
> override the
> >>>> decisions of those with only +o, at several times
> unquieting people
> >>>> we've quieted. The contexts for these were admittedly
> controversial
> >>>> and fall on ideological fault lines over how to run
> an IRC channel
> >>>> in
> >>>> general, so I agree 100% with Andrew that a clear IRC
> policy is the
> >>>> way to go. For the record, this has been mostly about
> using
> >>>> oppressive
> >>>> slurs, and my position has been not to tolerate them
> very much. We
> >>>> happen to have in our community a person who makes it
> his life's
> >>>> work
> >>>> to push peoples' buttons with slurs, and happened to
> be doing that
> >>>> IN
> >>>> the IRC channel. He'd also made a habit of typing
> anatomical words
> >>>> at
> >>>> random times. Form your own opinions. Again, the
> solution to this
> >>>> may
> >>>> be more about having a clear policy, than who
> enforces it.
> >>>>
> >>>> 2) The person with +F has acted in bad faith. He
> flooded the channel
> >>>> with ascii art of an ejaculating swastika and claimed
> it was an
> >>>> "accident", which would be a no-brainer kban in most
> any channel.
> >>>> When
> >>>> asked to share +F with other people, his response was
> to vandalize
> >>>> the
> >>>> Sudoroom wiki to say he is the "leader" (
> >>>> http://sudoroom.org/wiki/Community_Structure ). In the
> meantime, he
> >>>> shares +F with a friend of his who hadn't been to
> Sudoroom since
> >>>> summer 2012 and didn't even seem to know anybody's
> name. They'd also
> >>>> set the +S (successor) flag for a person who is
> emphatically NOT a
> >>>> Sudoroom member and has even publically criticized
> Sudoroom. This
> >>>> sent
> >>>> a clear message to the rest of us that we were
> dealing with people
> >>>> who
> >>>> saw us as a joke; didn't respect our community; and
> that there was
> >>>> little we could do about it in the short term. That
> mistrust has
> >>>> colored all of the talk over IRC privileges since
> then, and has only
> >>>> escalated since these same people came to our 1/16
> meeting and made
> >>>> it
> >>>> significantly longer (by complaining about the
> meeting being long!),
> >>>> and also filled our meeting agenda notes with things
> like "fuck",
> >>>> "poop" and "this is why you guys never hack anything".
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm not bitter or anything, just trying to bring out
> some of the
> >>>> subtext here for those not following why things are
> happening the
> >>>> way
> >>>> they are.
> >>>>
> >>>> I think the best formulation for IRC rules that
> everyone can agree
> >>>> on
> >>>> would be something like: we want the IRC channel to
> accurately
> >>>> reflect
> >>>> the atmosphere at the physical sudoroom space. To me,
> that nicely
> >>>> encompasses all the many behavioral problems and
> general do's and
> >>>> don'ts. Honestly the room itself has rarely had the
> kind of problems
> >>>> the channel has, because people tend to be a lot more
> decent to each
> >>>> other face to face, and because it self-selects for
> people who care
> >>>> about the community.
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> <mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> >>>> <mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> <mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>>
> >>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
> >>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> <mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> >>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> <mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> >>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >
> >
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> >
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