Yes this is the case, messes need to be addressed and accountability assigned,
but I don't think it makes sense to suddenly grant the power to issue "fines"
to a newly formed committee without having any context for the specific need
for such a thing.

So far i've heard a lot of yelling that this is needed, and an accusation that
the Omni Commons is too "laissez-faire" to function properly, implying that
what we really need is a police department with an iron fist.  I am not
convinced.

Kent, as delegate I need to solicit peoples' positions on this upcoming
proposal so please be clear about how you want our position to be represented.

-jake

On Thu, 29 Sep 2022, Kent Leech via sudo-discuss wrote:

> Why not just ask the messy groups to clean up first? Kindness and diplomacy
> can go further. Give the messy group some time to tidy up and move on.
>
> If it¹s a real dysfunctional group that ignores multiple clean-up requests,
> then some sort of action by Omni could be taken.
>
> -Kent
> -----
>
> Kent Leech Illustration
> http://www.kentleech.com
> kent@kentleech.com
> +1 (510) 504-0634
> --
>
>
> From:  Jake Watters via sudo-discuss <sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org>
> Reply-To:  Jake Watters <typeinthenumber@gmail.com>
> Date:  Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 2:35 AM
> To:  <sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org>
> Subject:  [sudo-discuss] [omni-consensus] Cleanliness Accountability
> Committee proposal
>
>> Hi Sudoroom,
>>
>> THIS IS IMPORTANT!
>>
>> The following proposal was brought to the delegate's meeting a couple of weeks
>> ago, and tonight in the meeting it was discussed.
>>
>> Since I had not been attending delegates meetings for some time, I failed to
>> forward this proposal to this list so that sudoroom could discuss our position
>> on it.
>>
>> Since I am a Sudoroom member, I voiced my position through our delegate (which
>> is me) that I am against giving a committee the power to levy fines against
>> omni collectives/tenants/people, especially since we have not tried a process
>> of simple communication between a cleaning collective and representatives of
>> collectives.
>>
>> Ultimately the other Omni delegates felt strongly about passing the proposal,
>> but they were willing to remove the provision giving the new Committee the
>> ability to "impose a monetary penalty" on groups or individuals they
>> determined
>> were guilty of being messy.  The proposal was partially passed as seen here:
>>
>> https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Event:2022/09/15_Delegates#cleanliness
>> yar: if we approve the proposal but delay the fine enforcement until after our
>>       october 6 meeting, and require another affirmative consensus decision on
>>       october 6 to give them that fine enforcement power?
>> jake: is ok with that
>> CONSENSUS: YES (CCL/Patrik ANV/Silver SUDOROOM/Jake FNB/Helen CLP/Billy
>> MOP/Jacqi)
>> ABSTAIN: (SUDOMESH/Camber)
>> BLOCK: (none), PASSES!
>>
>> I personally think it's unreasonable to trust a newly formed Committee with
>> the power to, for example, determine that Sudoroom is too messy and issue
>> "fines" of $50 per day until they feel that we have satisfied their standard,
>> and I'm glad that the other delegates were willing to remove this provision
>> even though they were technically capable of overriding sudoroom's objections.
>>
>> This provision is set to be reintroduced at the Delegate's meeting on OCTOBER
>> 6TH and Sudoroom needs to discuss our position, in order for our delegate to
>> represent us at that meeting.
>>
>> Please see the link below for the proposed text of the new Committee (same
>> link
>> is in the meeting notes above) and discuss the provision that's slated for
>> October 6th Delegate's meeting.
>>
>> -jake
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2022 06:08:55 +0000
>> From: deskhandle <deskhandle@protonmail.com>
>> To: consensus <consensus@lists.omnicommons.org>
>> Subject: [omni-consensus] Cleanliness Accountability Committee proposal
>>
>> https://cryptpad.fr/pad/#/2/pad/edit/GcTDiTZqA3ao5+6hbaAuobdc/
>>
>> At the delegate's meeting tonight, we discussed a proposal formulated by the
>> Events team which is linked above. This is a draft proposal and instructions
>> for how to suggest edits are on top of the doc. Please do not edit the content
>> directly.
>>
>> In short, it exists to create a new committee which will oversee the
>> cleanliness of the space, design and implement new systems to do so, including
>> a monetary penalty for any space left out of order for both shared spaces and
>> tenant spaces. If you're able to be an active and dedicated participant in
>> that
>> committee, please join us on Slack.
>>
>> This committee would also be able to spend some amount of Omni funds to clean
>> the space regularly and keep it at a level of cleanliness that must be
>> maintained for Omni to exist. Please check this out and get back with any
>> thoughts, concerns, suggestions before it's voted on at the next delegate's
>> meeting.
>>
>> Billy
>> Community Liberation Programs
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