1) Billy's pronouns are they/them

2) the committee HAS begun organizing already, in a public channel on
omni's slack which anybody is welcome to join. ping me with your email
address for an invite to omni slack

3) what is so wrong with the term laissez faire?

4) This proposal is NOT an attempt to target you personally in any
way. It is an attempt to solve real problems related to ongoing work
by the dozens of people who use and maintain common spaces at omni.
It's really really really not about you. Please make better attempts
at resolving your personal problems out of band so they stop leaking
into omni business and wasting everybody else's time.

On Sun, Oct 2, 2022 at 4:40 PM Jake via sudo-discuss
<sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org> wrote:
>
> Patrik, what you're missing about this proposal is that it was made by someone
> who has shown themselves to be too immature to handle such power.
>
> A while ago Billy got upset because some speakers got moved into the ballroom
> and he felt they were in the way.  I responded to his question about how they
> got moved there and he went on an embarrassing rampage on the consensus list,
> ending with a threat to unilaterally "get rid of" the speakers, and describing
> the discussion as a "pissing contest" (another way to say "penis size
> comparison") as seen in this thread (read the whole thing for context):
>
> https://omnicommons.org/pipermail/consensus/2022-August/003618.html
>
> two weeks later, Billy proposed the "Cleanliness Accountability Proposal" with
> the ability to levy fines against people he decides have been irresponsible.
>
> https://omnicommons.org/pipermail/consensus/2022-September/003634.html
>
> Since the only time i've heard of a conflict about a "mess" being cleaned up on
> any email lists (and i'm on a bunch of them) has been Billy targeting me
> personally, I don't think it makes sense to deputize him to be able to levy
> fines against people.
>
> He also accused us of being "laissez faire" in the meeting since we were
> hesitating to pass his proposal.  Maybe you didn't notice that.
>
> As for you being in favor of the proposal, the proposal has been passed with
> the sole exception of the ability to levy fines.  The fact that we're spending
> so much energy discussing this one point makes me question why it's so much
> more important than any other aspect of the proposal.  There has been no
> discussion of budget, or coordination of this new committee, since the proposal
> was passed, the only discussion has been advocating for the ability to levy
> fines.
>
> -jake
>
> On Sun, 2 Oct 2022, Patrik D'haeseleer wrote:
>
> > I'm in favor of giving this proposal a chance.  As Yar said,  we can always
> > decide to revoke it again if it turns out not to work the way we like.
> >
> > Patrik
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 2, 2022, 3:27 PM Jake via sudo-discuss <
> > sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Yes this is the case, messes need to be addressed and accountability
> >> assigned, but I don't think it makes sense to suddenly grant the power to
> >> issue "fines" to a newly formed committee without having any context for the
> >> specific need for such a thing.
> >>
> >> So far i've heard a lot of yelling that this is needed, and an accusation
> >> that the Omni Commons is too "laissez-faire" to function properly, implying
> >> that what we really need is a police department with an iron fist.  I am not
> >> convinced.
> >>
> >> Kent, as delegate I need to solicit peoples' positions on this upcoming
> >> proposal so please be clear about how you want our position to be
> >> represented.
> >>
> >> -jake
> >>
> >> On Thu, 29 Sep 2022, Kent Leech via sudo-discuss wrote:
> >>
> >>> Why not just ask the messy groups to clean up first? Kindness and diplomacy
> >>> can go further. Give the messy group some time to tidy up and move on.
> >>>
> >>> If it's a real dysfunctional group that ignores multiple clean-up requests,
> >>> then some sort of action by Omni could be taken.
> >>>
> >>> -Kent
> >>> -----
> >>>
> >>> Kent Leech Illustration
> >>> http://www.kentleech.com
> >>> kent@kentleech.com
> >>> +1 (510) 504-0634
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From:  Jake Watters via sudo-discuss <sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org>
> >>> Reply-To:  Jake Watters <typeinthenumber@gmail.com>
> >>> Date:  Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 2:35 AM
> >>> To:  <sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org>
> >>> Subject:  [sudo-discuss] [omni-consensus] Cleanliness Accountability
> >>> Committee proposal
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Sudoroom,
> >>>>
> >>>> THIS IS IMPORTANT!
> >>>>
> >>>> The following proposal was brought to the delegate's meeting a couple
> >> of weeks
> >>>> ago, and tonight in the meeting it was discussed.
> >>>>
> >>>> Since I had not been attending delegates meetings for some time, I
> >> failed to
> >>>> forward this proposal to this list so that sudoroom could discuss our
> >> position
> >>>> on it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Since I am a Sudoroom member, I voiced my position through our delegate
> >> (which
> >>>> is me) that I am against giving a committee the power to levy fines
> >> against
> >>>> omni collectives/tenants/people, especially since we have not tried a
> >> process
> >>>> of simple communication between a cleaning collective and
> >> representatives of
> >>>> collectives.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ultimately the other Omni delegates felt strongly about passing the
> >> proposal,
> >>>> but they were willing to remove the provision giving the new Committee
> >> the
> >>>> ability to "impose a monetary penalty" on groups or individuals they
> >>>> determined
> >>>> were guilty of being messy.  The proposal was partially passed as seen
> >> here:
> >>>>
> >>>> https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Event:2022/09/15_Delegates#cleanliness
> >>>> yar: if we approve the proposal but delay the fine enforcement until
> >> after our
> >>>>       october 6 meeting, and require another affirmative consensus
> >> decision on
> >>>>       october 6 to give them that fine enforcement power?
> >>>> jake: is ok with that
> >>>> CONSENSUS: YES (CCL/Patrik ANV/Silver SUDOROOM/Jake FNB/Helen CLP/Billy
> >>>> MOP/Jacqi)
> >>>> ABSTAIN: (SUDOMESH/Camber)
> >>>> BLOCK: (none), PASSES!
> >>>>
> >>>> I personally think it's unreasonable to trust a newly formed Committee
> >> with
> >>>> the power to, for example, determine that Sudoroom is too messy and
> >> issue
> >>>> "fines" of $50 per day until they feel that we have satisfied their
> >> standard,
> >>>> and I'm glad that the other delegates were willing to remove this
> >> provision
> >>>> even though they were technically capable of overriding sudoroom's
> >> objections.
> >>>>
> >>>> This provision is set to be reintroduced at the Delegate's meeting on
> >> OCTOBER
> >>>> 6TH and Sudoroom needs to discuss our position, in order for our
> >> delegate to
> >>>> represent us at that meeting.
> >>>>
> >>>> Please see the link below for the proposed text of the new Committee
> >> (same
> >>>> link
> >>>> is in the meeting notes above) and discuss the provision that's slated
> >> for
> >>>> October 6th Delegate's meeting.
> >>>>
> >>>> -jake
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>>> Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2022 06:08:55 +0000
> >>>> From: deskhandle <deskhandle@protonmail.com>
> >>>> To: consensus <consensus@lists.omnicommons.org>
> >>>> Subject: [omni-consensus] Cleanliness Accountability Committee proposal
> >>>>
> >>>> https://cryptpad.fr/pad/#/2/pad/edit/GcTDiTZqA3ao5+6hbaAuobdc/
> >>>>
> >>>> At the delegate's meeting tonight, we discussed a proposal formulated
> >> by the
> >>>> Events team which is linked above. This is a draft proposal and
> >> instructions
> >>>> for how to suggest edits are on top of the doc. Please do not edit the
> >> content
> >>>> directly.
> >>>>
> >>>> In short, it exists to create a new committee which will oversee the
> >>>> cleanliness of the space, design and implement new systems to do so,
> >> including
> >>>> a monetary penalty for any space left out of order for both shared
> >> spaces and
> >>>> tenant spaces. If you're able to be an active and dedicated participant
> >> in
> >>>> that
> >>>> committee, please join us on Slack.
> >>>>
> >>>> This committee would also be able to spend some amount of Omni funds to
> >> clean
> >>>> the space regularly and keep it at a level of cleanliness that must be
> >>>> maintained for Omni to exist. Please check this out and get back with
> >> any
> >>>> thoughts, concerns, suggestions before it's voted on at the next
> >> delegate's
> >>>> meeting.
> >>>>
> >>>> Billy
> >>>> Community Liberation Programs
> >>>> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing
> >> list --
> >>>> sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org To unsubscribe send an email to
> >>>> sudo-discuss-leave@sudoroom.org More options at
> >>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >> More options at
> >> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/
> >>
> >
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