jake sent me a private message where he implied that I am in common with
trump supporters. That accusation made me feel unsafe talking to him, so
I didn’t reply. I think he blocked me because of it. now what?
On 2025-06-06 15:24, Geffen Avraham wrote:
> My positions are pro-coexistence, anti-war, and critical of Israel,
> but stop short of cheering the people who want us dead.
>
> In Israel they would get me branded a traitor. Here you call me a
> genocide supporter when I explicitly condemn it.
>
> You don’t ask Chinese people if they disavow the CCP, which put 1M
> Muslims in cages. You certainly don’t ask them to condemn all
> Chinese citizens who are members.
>
> I have very clearly stated that I oppose Israel’s actions and want
> Palestinians to live, yet you put words in my mouth because I fall
> short of demonizing half my people and rooting for them to die!
>
> On Fri, Jun 6, 2025 at 3:16 PM Geffen Avraham
> <arora.tintin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Jake, at what point have I defended genocide, when I have EXPLICITLY
>> STATED I don’t.
>>
>> I will not respond to your intimidation and attempt and blocking
>> people who feel unsafe by your tacit support of murdering innocent
>> people for their nationality.
>>
>> Do you think half the worlds Jews are evil?
>>
>> YES or NO
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 6, 2025 at 2:22 PM Geffen Avraham
>> <arora.tintin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Seriously, that's where we're we've gotten to? Raising concerns
>> about antisemitism means you're a racist?
>>
>> Jake has tried to ban me for daring to raise concerns about
>> anti-jewish racism.
>>
>> i have funded and kept sudo alive during times when it was at risk
>> of foreclosure. at no point have i made any apologia for any israeli
>> crimes, only criticism of arab nationalism and islamic theocracy.
>>
>> the amount of people america bombed in one night in dresden is more
>> than all the people killed in gaza in 2 years. but i don't support
>> bombing gaza, so stop spreading this lie about me.
>>
>> but you clearly don't want to stop the genocide, you want to swap
>> the genocide.
>>
>> if you support abducting an infant from his mother's arms and
>> keeping him in a tunnel - not an accidental death from a bombing,
>> but an 8 month old ripped knowingly and intentionally by human hands
>> from his family - say it so we can hear you.
>>
>> is your official position that half the world's jews are
>> ontologically evil and not welcome at sudo, and that antisemtism is
>> not real and it's racist to raise concerns about it?
>>
>> if so, please say it out loud so we can all hear you.
>>
>> If i get banned after this, let me serve as a canary in the coal
>> mine - that without making any apologia for israeli war crimes, only
>> pointing out the deep feeling of danger and lack of safety jews feel
>> and daring to have empathy for 6 million of the world's jews, will
>> ban you from this space.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 5, 2025 at 9:51 PM Geffen Avraham
>> <arora.tintin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> disappointed at the lack of uncritical support of arab nationalism
>> and islamic extremism?
>> trying to pretend religion has nothing to do with this conflict is
>> like trying to pretend the civil war wasn't about slavery.
>>
>> neoconfederates who make this claim have to squint and wave away
>> statements like Alexander H Stephens' Cornerstone Speech: "_slavery
>> subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal
>> condition" _or the Mississippi Declaration of Secession:
>> _"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of
>> slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world."_
>>
>> I couldn't understand how people could do this until I saw them deny
>> and wave away religious extremism and antisemitism, whether from the
>> Secretary-General of the Arab League:
>> “I personally wish that the Jews do not drive us to this war, as
>> this will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre which
>> will be spoken of like the Tartar massacre or the Crusader wars.
>> This war will be distinguished by three serious matters.
>> First—faith: as each fighter deems his death on behalf of
>> Palestine as the shortest road to paradise;"
>>
>> It is plainly stated in the genocidal charter of Hamas, and in their
>> naming of the Oct 7 massacre after Al-Aqsa Mosque:
>>
>> 'Peace initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and
>> international conferences are in contradiction to the principles
>> of the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more
>> than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the
>> lands of Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem
>> except by Jihad.'
>>
>> Or even from the PNA government of today, which published an
>> official government statement referring readers to the infamous
>> Hadith that the day of judgement will not come until you kill the
>> Jews.
>>
>> Yet people continue to squint and pretend that it's not about
>> religious conflict. I recently watched the documentary "No Other
>> Land", and, knowing a bit of Arabic, noticed that whenever the
>> subtitles said "Israeli", the people were saying the word "Yahud" -
>> Jew. Same when a protest passed by my house recently - the leaders
>> were chanting in Arabic for the followers to repeat: "from water to
>> water, Palestine is Arab"
>>
>> At no point above have I made any apologia for any Israeli actions -
>> only pointed out the Palestine movement is not aligned with treating
>> Jews as human beings - very openly not so in Arabic. And in Arabic,
>> they make no distinction between "Jew" and "Israeli", and say
>> "Arab", not "free".
>>
>> But nevertheless I must request a source for your claim that Israel
>> created a fake feeding site and shot people who went there.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 5, 2025 at 9:30 PM Jake Watters via sudo-discuss
>> <sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org> wrote:
>>
>> presently Israel is starving 2.2 million people to death inside a
>> concentration camp, and they set up a fake "food distribution site"
>> and shoot to kill anyone who approaches it.
>>
>> I was really hoping this "anti apartheid" proposal would be able to
>> go through more easily and I'm extremely disappointed in what's
>> happening here.
>>
>> -jake
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 5, 2025 at 7:37 PM Paige P via sudo-discuss
>> <sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org> wrote:
>>
>> I support us doing the Apartheid-Free Communities pledge.
>>
>> Aside: This thread brings up a good question of how do we
>> decision-make?
>>
>> I looked at the wiki to see if there was any old protocol. There's
>> this page that looks just like a brainstorming page:
>> https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Sudo_room/decisions
>>
>> Also there's our bylaws, which have been newly made:
>> https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Bylaws. We can have our internal way of
>> doing things, but I would feel more comfortable if we had our bylaws
>> match what we do as closely as possible so that we can confidently
>> make decisions. And I think our bylaws as is are a good starting
>> point: My understanding is our bylaws allow for a vote on things via
>> ballot by members. Quorum for the vote is 7 people, and the decision
>> is made by majority vote.
>>
>> SECTION 12. ACTION BY WRITTEN BALLOT WITHOUT A MEETING
>>
>> * (a) Any action which may be taken at any regular or special
>> meeting of members may be taken without a meeting if the corporation
>> distributes a written ballot to every member entitled to vote on the
>> matter. The ballot and any related material may be sent by
>> electronic transmission and responses may be returned to the
>> corporation by electronic transmission. The ballot shall set forth
>> the proposed action, provide an opportunity to specify approval or
>> disapproval of any proposal, and provide a reasonable time within
>> which to return the ballot to the corporation.
>> * (b) Approval by written ballot pursuant to this section shall be
>> valid only when the number of votes cast by ballot within the time
>> period specified equals or exceeds the quorum required to be present
>> at a meeting authorizing the action, and the number of approvals
>> equals or exceeds the number of votes that would be required to
>> approve at a meeting at which the total number of votes cast was the
>> same as the number of votes cast by ballot.
>> * (c) Ballots shall indicate the number of responses needed to meet
>> the quorum requirement and, with respect to ballots other than for
>> the election of directors, shall state the percentage of approvals
>> necessary to pass the measure submitted. Ballots must specify the
>> time by which the ballot must be received in order to be counted.
>> * (d) A written ballot may not be revoked.
>>
>> SECTION 5. QUORUM FOR MEETINGS
>>
>> A quorum of the Members shall consist of at least seven (7) Members
>> of the Corporation in good standing as of the date of the vote. The
>> members present at a duly called and held meeting at which a quorum
>> is initially present may continue to do business notwithstanding the
>> loss of a quorum at the meeting due to a withdrawal of members from
>> the meeting provided that any action taken after the loss of a
>> quorum must be approved by at least a majority of the members
>> required to constitute a quorum.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 5, 2025 at 4:10 PM imogen via sudo-discuss
>> <sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org> wrote:
>> As an anarchist pacifist, I am not in support of signing because I
>> think
>> that both "sides" are in the wrong. The land issue is a religious
>> issue
>> and both Islam and Judaism are problematic institutions.
>>
>> On 2025-06-05 15:56, Jake Watters via sudo-discuss wrote:
>>> if there are no objections can we go ahead and sign it?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2025 at 11:13 PM Aaron Fenyes via sudo-discuss
>>> <sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jake, Lo, and I (Aaron) talked about the Apartheid-Free
>> Communities
>>>> pledge at tonight's meeting! Here are some combined thoughts.
>>>>
>>>> === We should sign as soon as possible ===
>>>>
>>>> Signing the pledge will counteract ongoing harm in a small but
>> real
>>>> way, so we should sign it as soon as possible.
>>>>
>>>> === Our obligations ===
>>>>
>>>> Here's an idea of what we think we're promising to do, as an
>>>> organization, by signing the pledge.
>>>>
>>>> --- Items 1-3 ---
>>>>
>>>>> WE AFFIRM our commitment to freedom, justice, and
>>>>> equality for the Palestinian people and all people
>>>>>
>>>>> WE OPPOSE all forms of racism, bigotry,
>>>>> discrimination, and oppression
>>>>>
>>>>> WE DECLARE ourselves an Apartheid-free community
>>>>
>>>> These are things we have or should have affirmed already, so
>>>> (re)affirming them presumably won't change anything about how we
>>>> operate.
>>>>
>>>> --- Item 4 ---
>>>>
>>>>> WE PLEDGE to join others in working to end all support to
>> Israel's
>>>>> Apartheid regime, settler colonialism, and military occupation.
>>>>
>>>> Here are some ways we can uphold this promise.
>>>>
>>>> - Sign the pledge. As Lo pointed out in the quoted e-mails below,
>>>> just putting our name on the list of signatories already helps
>>>> uphold our obligations: "It reflects public support to our
>> elected
>>>> officials when we press them to divest from Israeli violence. It
>>>> reduces harm to Palestinian and Arab members of our community. It
>>>> challenges the official narratives and expands the public
>>>> consciousness around Palestine."
>>>>
>>>> - Confirm on our wiki that we've signed the pledge, and add the
>>>> Apartheid-Free Communities logo.
>>>>
>>>> - Facilitate (and, if possible, promote) the use of our space by
>>>> organizations "working to end all support to Israel's Apartheid
>>>> regime, settler colonialism, and military occupation."
>>>>
>>>> - Provide information resources (like flyers, zines, articles,
>> book
>>>> chapters, and a listening / watching / reading list) in the
>> space.
>>>>
>>>> === Background on the campaign ===
>>>>
>>>> This Apartheid-Free Communities campaign is financed by the
>> American
>>>> Friends Service Committee, a Quaker organization. You can find
>> some
>>>> steering committee members on the campaign site's "About" page
>>>> (https://apartheid-free.org/about/).
>>>>
>>>> All the listed steering committee members are Christian or
>> Unitarian
>>>> organizations, which for one of us (Aaron) is kind of a red flag.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, the list of pledge signatories seems to
>> include
>>>> more diverse religious organizations. In particular, it has a
>> good
>>>> number of Jewish organizations, including the national and Bay
>> Area
>>>> chapters of Jewish Voice for Peace.
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 2 Jun 2025, Jake Watters via sudo-discuss wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Let's have a meeting this coming Wednesday, in two days! Last
>>>> week just
>>>>>> three or four of us got together and discussed things as can be
>>>> seen in the
>>>>>> meeting notes:
>>>>>> https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Meetings
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's a proposed agenda:
>>>>>> * catch up on new membership applications
>>>>>> * continue talking about the process of sudoroom becoming its
>>>> own 501(c)3
>>>>>> * the volunteer effort of updating our membership list
>>>>>> * fundraising including reaching out to members who may have
>>>> forgotten to
>>>>>> pay dues
>>>>>> * sudoroom signing the "Apartheid-Free Communities" pledge! See
>>>> below for
>>>>>> more info
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lets say this Wednesday, 7:30PM?
>>>>>> -jake
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>>>> From: Lo via sudo-discuss sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org
>>>>>> Date: Tue, May 27, 2025 at 7:37 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [sudo-discuss] Proposal: SUDO room joins the Apartheid
>>>> Free
>>>>>> Communities Campaign
>>>>>> To: sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Sudoroom members and leaders,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the past 2.5 years I’ve been a Sudoroom “member” (I
>>>> say this in
>>>>>> quotations because I’ve been paying dues and attending but
>>>> have never been
>>>>>> endorsed as a full fledged member), but I’d like to make a
>>>> proposal that
>>>>>> Sudoroom become an Apartheid Free Community!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am writing as a member of SURJ Bay Area’s Palestine
>>>> Solidarity Campaign.
>>>>>> As a racial justice organization, SURJ believes it is our moral
>>>> obligation
>>>>>> to demand an end to Israel’s system of apartheid, its
>> genocide
>>>> in Gaza, and
>>>>>> its increasing violent seizure of land in the West Bank. All
>>>> this is paid
>>>>>> for by our tax dollars, with the U.S. directly funding the
>>>> Israeli
>>>>>> government to the tune of $35 billion a year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We invite Sudoroom to join us to support the Palestinian
>>>> people’s human
>>>>>> rights, lives, and lands by taking the pledge to become an
>>>> Apartheid-Free
>>>>>> Community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apartheid is a crime against humanity. As defined by the United
>>>> Nations
>>>>>> https://legal.un.org/avl/ha/cspca/cspca.html, apartheid
>>>> includes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> • Acts such as murder, torture, inhuman treatment, and
>>>> arbitrary arrest of
>>>>>> members of a racial group
>>>>>>
>>>>>> • Deliberate imposition upon the subjugated racial group of
>>>> living
>>>>>> conditions calculated to cause its physical destruction
>>>>>>
>>>>>> • Legislative measures that discriminate in the political,
>>>> social,
>>>>>> economic, and cultural fields
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We could fill pages with examples of how Israel’s treatment
>> of
>>>> Palestinians
>>>>>> meets this criteria—from arrests and imprisonment without
>>>> charges to the
>>>>>> destruction of Gaza by bombing homes, hospitals, and schools
>> and
>>>> cutting
>>>>>> off food, water, electricity and medical supplies. Palestinians
>>>> are
>>>>>> subjected to entirely different laws and judicial systems,
>>>> without freedom
>>>>>> of movement and economic opportunities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Inspired by the anti-apartheid movement that helped topple the
>>>> white
>>>>>> supremacist regime in South Africa, the Apartheid-Free
>>>> Communities Campaign
>>>>>> is bringing communities together to end apartheid in
>>>> Israel/Palestine. We
>>>>>> encourage Sudoroom to join the over 500 organizations across
>> the
>>>> globe,
>>>>>> including cities, schools, faith-based communities, labor
>>>> unions,
>>>>>> businesses, and organizations, in taking the pledge to become
>> an
>>>>>> Apartheid-Free Community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Signing the Pledge makes a difference! It reflects public
>>>> support to our
>>>>>> elected officials when we press them to divest from Israeli
>>>> violence. It
>>>>>> reduces harm to Palestinian and Arab members of our community.
>>>> It
>>>>>> challenges the official narratives and expands the public
>>>> consciousness
>>>>>> around Palestine. We ask that you sign this pledge, and take
>>>> actions, in
>>>>>> whatever way makes sense to Sudoroom, to be part of this
>> effort.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Be sure to let me know if you have any questions and how I can
>>>> support your
>>>>>> Sudoroom in signing the Pledge and joining this campaign.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In Solidarity,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> P.S. We have materials including buttons, posters, and
>> pamphlets
>>>> you can
>>>>>> use to increase awareness and build support. Plus the
>>>> Apartheid-Free
>>>>>> Communities website https://apartheid-free.org/about/ is full
>> of
>>>> great
>>>>>> resources and educational materials.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *Lo *
>>>>>> Pronouns: She/They https://www.mypronouns.org/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no neutral body from which our bodies deviate. Society
>>>> has
>>>>>> written deep into each strand of tissue of every living person
>>>> on earth.
>>>>>> What it writes into the heart muscles of five star generals is
>>>> distinct
>>>>>> from what it writes in the pancreatic tissue and intestinal
>>>> tracts of Black
>>>>>> single mothers in Detroit, of Mexicana migrants in Fresno, but
>>>> no body
>>>>>> stands outside the consequences of injustice and inequality
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *― *Aurora Levins Morales
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org
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>>>>>> More options at
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
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