[sudo-discuss] Electrical stages proposed

Tue Aug 19 13:40:32 PDT 2014

all makes sense to me. so we run conduit to the back wall now for 115V
service and pull the 230 through at a later stage when we expect to be
running those loads? is it OK to run wiring from separate breaker boxes
through the same conduit? The way the loads are distributed around the
space, I think it's critical to get power even if it's just 115V to the
back wall by the shop in the first round of electrical mods. can you
post links to the type of hardware you envision using for the boxes?
these guys?
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Red-Dot-2-Gang-Universal-Weatherproof-Electrical-Box-S407E/100148917

cheers 

On 2014-08-19 12:58, Whitney Lawrence wrote: 

> Hol, 
> We must keep in mind that placing multiple 240V plugs on the same line is ill advised because there is the potential for more than one plug being utilized (with unknown Amperage requirement) at the same time thus tripping the breaker. Its best to have dedicated breakers for these heavy loads. The maximum number of outlets per 20A breaker is 10, so any combination of 3d priting area, museum, Eastern wall etc is possible provided we are 10 or less. 
> 
> Although maximizing the outlets per breaker to leave room for the 240V service is possible, that option is motivated by a limited view of our long term needs. Yes, there would be room in the Balcony box for all our immediate needs, however, what about our exhaust requirement when welding (that's two more 240 circuits- one for the welder and one for the exhaust motor). Those leads would have to come from somewhere other than the Balcony box. I therefore propose that all 240 service be from the Above Stage panel. That said, I don't see the benefit of running the 240 in phase 1 of this installation. 
> 
> Conduit size. We certainly will have left overs of hardware, if we are working with 3 different sized condi then we'll have 3x the leftovers. 1/2" is about $2/10ft - 3/4 is about double that @ $4/10ft and 1" is about $8/10ft. Conduit benders are expensive ranging from 25-50 per bender but they can be rented from the tool lending lib or purchased from a flea mkt. I'll keep the idea of using all 3/4" in mind. 
> 
> Let's make a home depot run soon (this wkend at the latest). 
> 
> -Whit 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 11:35 AM, <hol at gaskill.com> wrote:
> 
> hey whit, 
> 
> I think we may as well run the 230 along with 115 over to the shop area and leave only the overhead work until later. If we are going to use the same conduit to run all conductors, we may as well pull the 230 along with the 115. to touch on the limited real estate inside the breaker box, i agree about having a dedicated breaker for the server farm. with the other 3 slots available, you indicated that 2 would be taken up for the 230V since we're energizing 2 hot conductors. with the remaining slot, would it be possible to power the 3d printing area, the 'museum,' and still put some 115V outlets on the back wall? thanks for taking the time to do all this analysis of the code for us. 
> 
> using all 3/4" conduit (instead of 1/2" and 1" as originally shown in the spreadsheet) and purchasing one bender would make it easier in terms of getting clips etc in bulk that could be used throughout the building if we have leftovers. 
> 
> do y'all know when the fire inspection is scheduled? the more work we can get in under the first round the better, if for no other reason than not feeling like we immediately need to do more electrical work after the fire inspection. i will have alot more time to help out during the next few weeks, and would be glad to drive on a home depot run if we're ready to pick up supplies this weekend. 
> 
> on amperage requirements, the welder that's there now uses 7 amps at 115 iirc, and for example a lincoln weldpak180HD uses 20 amps at 230. from what i understand there is not 3-phase power coming into the building at all, so the best course of action would be to install 2 single phase 230 plugs - one for a welder or plasma cutter or other heavy machine, and one dedicated to the robot, with the intent to use a rotary phase converter to provide 3-phase power. 
> 
> cheers, 
> 
> hol 
> 
> On 2014-08-19 10:50, Whitney Lawrence wrote: 
> 
> Upon further consideration and based on input from our community I recommend we move forward in Stages. 
> 
> First Stage: Service the server area (dedicated 20A breaker), 3d print area and Museum with another 20A breaker. Thus satisfying the Fire inspection needs. 
> 
> Stage 2, phase 1: Install plugs along Eastern wall (3rd 20A breaker) 
> 
> Stage 2, phase 2: Install 240V service to Robot on Eastern wall. Other 240v needs? 
> 
> Stage 2, phase 3: Install overhead power (either using the 4th available position of the Balcony breaker or tying into the 3d printer/museum j-box) 
> I need to know about the Robot power requirements. I looked through the manuals posted by Jake and have not found the amperage rating for the control box+robot. Im working under the assumption that she requires a 30A dedicated 240V supply and Jake will preform 3phase magicianary. 
> 
> The reason I ask is because I need to size the breaker accordingly, and we have limited real estate within the Balcony panel (located in the music room). Currently (no pun intended) there are 4 breaker positions available in the Balcony panel. I think that all 240V supply, be it 30A(robot?) or 50A(welder?) any exhaust fans, dust collection service or whatever will have to be supplied from, not the Balcony panel, but the sub that feeds the Balcony called "Above Stage" panel. 
> 
> I recommend having dedicated breakers for the 240V supplies. Unless we know exactly what will be powered, there is no way of passing the <50% amperage usage per plug requirement of the NEC. This is simply the best practice. Furthermore, this should not be an issue if we are using the "Above Stage" panel because according to notes on the panel, most breakers within are not being utilized- so there is plenty of space. 
> 
> I'll continue to draft the drawings based on what I have written here. Hopefully the package will be complete and ready for review by this Friday. 
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Fgw5himtlmemiXReP-fG6rP-I2RoXsSP_MAZxcNUUm0/edit#gid=1250155659 [1] 
> 
> Thanks, 
> Whit

Links:
------
[1]
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Fgw5himtlmemiXReP-fG6rP-I2RoXsSP_MAZxcNUUm0/edit#gid=1250155659
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20140819/c16c334b/attachment.html>