[sudo-discuss] Proposed changes to the articles of association

Thu May 15 14:13:25 PDT 2014

I'm with Sam.  Thought the wording and gist of the proposed changes were,
in essence, rococo in their complexity.  Sub-optimal from a user-interface
POV.  Simplify, simplify, simplify!

Just my $0.02.

On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Sam Tepper <sam.tepper at gmail.com> wrote:

>  Yeah, this seems a bit excessive to me.  I don't think people should be
> afraid to doze or fall asleep.  Members already can kick out non-members,
> and habitation is not allowed - why the need to take it so much further?
> If there's a problem with a member sleeping in the space, it should be
> dealt with like any other member conflict.
>
>
> On 05/15/2014 12:01 AM, Gregg Horton wrote:
>
> How about a nap pass?
> On May 14, 2014 11:48 PM, "Marina Kukso" <marina.kukso at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> sounds good. something that might help in documentation is an explicit
>> message on the application form (or wherever) that "membership is typically
>> granted barring some serious circumstances or reservations and that you
>> shouldn't take the application questions extremely seriously because you're
>> worried it might hurt your chances of being accepted - just feel free to be
>> honest." that wording's not very good, but i think you get the idea.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:22 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> ah yes, I think the idea for that was to generally side on not
>>> specifying too narrowly, but instead to use "human judgment over automation
>>> and efficiency" and cultural protocol to navigate it. I think "serious
>>> issues" is a metric we are giving to future sudo room members in order for
>>> them to weigh heavily whether some issue that potentially prevents a member
>>> from joining is in fact of a "serious" nature. I'm of the disposition this
>>> means something that conflicts directly with sudo room's values and the
>>> articles of association.
>>>
>>>  I actually think this process could be fairly easy to go through that
>>> doesn't need to be very intimidating. At the meeting tonight, everyone was
>>> in favor of putting time into implementing a better experience for new
>>> members so that this policy is clearly outlined and available in multiple
>>> formats (paper, on the website, etc)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>>  thanks matt. i like both of the changed wordings that you've
>>>> suggested. i'd be happy with either version.
>>>>
>>>>  still wondering about the second issue - what "serious issues" might
>>>> be and what the criteria are that the group would vote people up or down on.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:10 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Phil,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think nothing in this policy *prevents *tele-presence, in fact, I
>>>>> think it would be prudent for a prospective member to, at the very least,
>>>>> offer to attend the meeting virtually if they cannot be physically present.
>>>>> Either way, the only requirement is the prospective member submits
>>>>> something concrete, in writing (format unspecified, so digital text seems
>>>>> fine).
>>>>>
>>>>>  Marina,
>>>>>
>>>>>  I have no strong feelings about the exact phrasing, I think those
>>>>> questions were carried over from Jake's original(ish) proposal, maybe?
>>>>> Marc, do you know where those questions came from?
>>>>>
>>>>>  I do like the idea of asking questions to get three kinds of
>>>>> responses:
>>>>> 1. A response about why they are interested, leaving the opportunity
>>>>> for setting some context to joining.
>>>>> 2. A response about what specifically they want to do (commonly folks
>>>>> have particular projects or uses in mind as they get involved with sudo)
>>>>> 2. A response about specifically how they see themselves contributing
>>>>> to the community, as giving some sort contribution *is* an
>>>>> expectation, but extremely open / liberal. I think "share" is a great term
>>>>> to express this.
>>>>>
>>>>>  I have no reason to think we should hang on to the question about
>>>>> "hacking" in particular, maybe alternatives:
>>>>>
>>>>>   #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
>>>>> #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
>>>>>  #** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to
>>>>> do at sudo room?
>>>>> #** Do you happen to have something in mind that you would like to
>>>>> share with the sudo room community?
>>>>>
>>>>>  That being said, I'd also be happy with the truncated version:
>>>>>
>>>>>  #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
>>>>> #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
>>>>>
>>>>>   // Matt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>  thanks and apologies that i haven't had a chance to be a part of
>>>>>> this discussion until now. i have a few questions:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  - re: "What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?" & "What
>>>>>> are you excited about sharing with sudo room?" i wonder what effect seeing
>>>>>> these questions on the application would have for someone who's really new
>>>>>> to the world of hacking and/or someone who might not identify as a hacker
>>>>>> (ie, someone who would consider themselves a "beginner" or "just learning"
>>>>>> - as many of our members, including myself, do). like if you're not sure
>>>>>> what you're interested on hacking...or if you're not sure what you have to
>>>>>> share with sudo room. is anyone else concerned that these questions might
>>>>>> be intimidating to newcomers? (i ask this genuinely). also, what happens if
>>>>>> a prospective member puts on their application "i don't know" or "i'm not
>>>>>> sure" for these questions? would that affect their application?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  this leads to my second question:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Under "initial pondering" it says "#** The intent is for it to be
>>>>>> very easy for new members to join, so only very serious concerns should be
>>>>>> brought up." what would a "serious concern" be? also there isn't really any
>>>>>> indication like..what the yes/no on a person's membership request is based
>>>>>> on. does the content of what people put in their application matter?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  finally, what do folks think is gained by the hacking & sharing
>>>>>> q's? do you think that you wouldn't get enough information from "what
>>>>>> is your pseudonym/name" and "why do you want to be a member of sudo room?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Marc Juul <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   These are the proposed changes brought up at the current sudo
>>>>>>> room meeting. We will attempt to consense on this at the sudo room meeting
>>>>>>> on Wednesday the 21st of May at 7 pm in sudo room.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ===Section 2.1 Qualifications for Membership===
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  [...]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  * Successfully completing the process for becoming a member, below:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  ====Section 2.1.0 Process for becoming a member====
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  #'''Declaration of Intent to Join'''
>>>>>>> #* To become a member, a person must submit a brief written or
>>>>>>> spoken "Declaration of Intent to Join" where they answer the
>>>>>>> following questions:
>>>>>>> #** What is your (pseudo)nym and/or name?
>>>>>>> #** Why do you want to be a member of sudo room?
>>>>>>> #** What are you excited about hacking at sudo room?
>>>>>>> #** What are you excited about sharing with sudo room?
>>>>>>> #'''Initial Pondering'''
>>>>>>> #* It is only possible to become a member at the weekly sudo room
>>>>>>> meeting. Prospective members should attend if possible but can submit a
>>>>>>> written declaration if they are not able to attend in person.
>>>>>>> #* At the sudo room weekly meeting, every prospective member must
>>>>>>> leave the room while the existing members have a chance to bring up any
>>>>>>> concerns or reasons why the prospective member(s) should not be
>>>>>>> allowed membership (referred to as the "Initial Pondering").
>>>>>>> #** The intent is for it to be very easy for new members to join,
>>>>>>> so only very serious concerns should be brought up.
>>>>>>>  #** If any existing member objects to a prospective new member
>>>>>>> becoming a member, and this cannot be resolved through discussion, then the
>>>>>>> prospective member will not be allowed membership.
>>>>>>> #** Unreasonable or frequent blocking of new members by an existing
>>>>>>> member is grounds for immediate termination of membership based on a 2/3
>>>>>>> vote.
>>>>>>> #*  Upon completing the "Initial Pondering", such prospectivemembers must be communicated to the sudo room mailing list within 24 hours,
>>>>>>> including their "Declaration of Intent to Join".
>>>>>>> #'''Extended Pondering'''
>>>>>>> #* After the Initial Pondering, if there are no objections, there
>>>>>>> will be one week for sudo room members to raise objections as to why the
>>>>>>> prospective member should not be allowed to join (referred to as the
>>>>>>> "Extended Pondering").
>>>>>>> #* If there are no objections raised during the "Extended
>>>>>>> Pondering", the prospective member will become a member.
>>>>>>> #** The intention is to provide sufficient time to ensure all
>>>>>>> concerns of those unable to attend the meeting may be heard.
>>>>>>> #* The new member will be added to the membership list and given
>>>>>>> access to desired and relevant assets and services of sudo room.
>>>>>>> #* No announcement of this change of status after the "Extended
>>>>>>> Pondering" is necessary.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
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Tony Barreca
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