[sudo-discuss] Dia de los Muertos fundraiser: is happening?

Fri Oct 24 18:56:22 PDT 2014

I'm actually quite happy that this discussion is happening at sudo, because
these discussions will affect how culture in a diverse oakland is
approached.  As an American born Indian, I'm quite see Indian culture
regularly lifted and abused in all sorts of contexts, especially in white
new age/hippie/techno music circles (having "puja" become a marketing tool
for white folk).  Now, keep in mind that I both actively participate in
said culturally appropriative circles (I love electronic music and can't
really avoid this stuff), and also have puja be a part of my mundane daily
existence in my indian family.

If sudo were to have drug addled sex-pujas, more power to you, I may even
join.  However, by doing so, I believe you'd effectively alienate 98% of
Indians who may otherwise want to participate in sudo otherwise.

In my view, one reason why can be framed by the idea of the "magical
negro":
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicalNegro
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_Negro

What's happening is effectively the dehumanization and squelching of the
mundane and day to day life of one or more people.  Now, this happens all
the time with all sorts of culture, so you can't purely blame only white
folks.....  But when you put it in the context of racist immigration laws,
unfair wages, police killings, prisons, real estate redlining, and various
other ongoing real hot, living issues, it is a GREAT way to alienate people
in a community.  At best you run the risk of treating of reducing sacred
elements to being clown like, at worst is pure outright denial of atrocity.

An extreme example of this occurred a few years ago when some white burners
at the bordello decided to throw a "go native" party where they encouraged
other white burners to dress up like indigenous people around the world.
Of course, this pissed off more than a few people.

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/burners-torched-over-native-party/Content?oid=1369150

(fast forward to now, I actually now KNOW both the people involved with the
party and folks in the native community, and generally like all of them...
But there *IS* a racial disconnect.  Ask most any brown/black person and
they will have visceral reactions to these sorts of things).

I WANT cultural exchange.  DDM is meant for everyone to participate.   But
in my view, a Dia De Los Muertos party -- if we as a sudo community want to
be truly inclusive to Mexican at s -- should be initiated or at least guided
by someone who is Mexican or Mexican-American.

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 6:05 PM, Sonja Trauss <sonja.trauss at gmail.com>
wrote:

> No break it down for me - hep announced she's Hispanic, then announced
> there is something wrong with whites celebrating Hispanic holidays.
>
> I assume those statements are connected - are they not? I thought the 1st
> one was designed to give some authority to the 2nd one.
>
> My other question is to clarify her statement, if whites can't celebrate
> Hispanic holidays, is it also the case that Hispanics must celebrate
> Hispanic holidays? The logic behind the prohibition on whites celebrating
> Hispanic holidays (whites are appropriating-stealing-'taking away' the
> holiday) implies also a positive mandate that Hispanics must celebrate the
> holiday. How much more would Hispanics be alienated from DD if they stopped
> celebrating it! Is this the case? I'm trying to understand the argument.
>
>
> On Friday, October 24, 2014, max b <maxb.personal at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ok so maybe there's still a chance to keep this from turning into the
>> proper train-wreck that I'm sensing.
>>
>> Perhaps you'd like to take a few minutes and re-think those questions and
>> consider whether or not they're particularly thoughtful and whether you'd
>> like to re-phrase them and/or retract them?
>>
>> I think people on the list would be more than willing to consider that
>> they might have been sent in a moment of heat and that some small amount of
>> cooling off would let us actually allow this thread to turn into something
>> more productive....
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Sonja Trauss <sonja.trauss at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I just didn't want to seem aggressive or like I'm trying to troll the
>>> list or criticize you in public.
>>>
>>> But since you do - can you explain a thing I always wonder about when I
>>> read authoritative statements about "My Culture" -
>>> What should I make of Hispanics that don't agree with you - Hispanics
>>> who do not care who celebrates their holidays, or Hispanics who don't feel
>>> particularly connected to their holidays? Which one of you speaks for all
>>> Hispanics?
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 24, 2014, Hep Svadja <hepkitten at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bringing this back to the list because, as per usual I do not enjoy
>>>> being contacted offlist and berated about my culture, or berated about
>>>> white people's entitlement to my culture.
>>>>
>>>> This is a problem.
>>>>
>>>> -hep
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 5:32 PM, Sonja Trauss <sonja.trauss at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm from the east coast, Philadelphia. Philadelphia is 45,45,10 black,
>>>>> white, Hispanic (mostly Puerto Rican) + Asian (Cambodian, Vietnamese,
>>>>> Filipino, Korean and Chinese). As you can maybe imagine, day of the dead is
>>>>> really not a thing in Philadlephia. When I lived there, I never went to a
>>>>> DD party, or even really had heard of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here, in the bay, the racial/ethnic distribution is way different. I
>>>>> never meet Puerto Ricans any more, and there are way fewer blacks. There
>>>>> are more Asians and Hispanics. Not only is the current Hispanic population
>>>>> here bigger, this area was settled by Spanish soldiers (unlike
>>>>> Philadelphia, settled by Dutch and English mostly. Also some Germans). The
>>>>> Spanish settler influence is all over - in names, in the types of old
>>>>> buildings. The white people I meet here are Way more likely to speak
>>>>> Spanish than the people I grew up with. the white people I meet here know
>>>>> more about Mexico and Central America than the ppl back east. The point is,
>>>>> California is a way more Hispanic part of the US overall than anywhere I
>>>>> lived before.
>>>>>
>>>>> Therefore, it is not surprising at all to see way more DD. Moreover,
>>>>> it doesn't seem strange to me that people who live near each other
>>>>> would celebrate the same holidays. The thing that makes many Hispanics
>>>>> celebrate day of the dead (seeing Hispanics celebrate day of the dead) also
>>>>> makes white people celebrate day of the dead.
>>>>> Put another way, is it weird to you how many atheists
>>>>> and non-Christians in America celebrate Christmas? Probably not - you can
>>>>> see that at on December 25th, Christmas is just the thing to do.
>>>>> When you see white people celebrating DD here, it's not because they
>>>>> want to steal your holiday, it's because your culture is pervasive here.
>>>>> Does that make sense?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, October 24, 2014, Hep Svadja <hepkitten at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> hi guys:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a little bothered by the cultural appropriation of this event. as a
>>>>>> Bay Area Hispanic I find it quite strange when groups of mostly white
>>>>>> people with no ties to the actual culture of ddlm host events not in the
>>>>>> actual spirit of this extremely reverent Hispanic holiday. basically if you
>>>>>> don't build an ofrenda on your ancestors' graves every year i find it
>>>>>> really problematic to be jumping aboard this holiday as you are clearly not
>>>>>> of this culture. using it as an excuse for a dance party is even more
>>>>>> questionable as is encouraging people with no understanding of this
>>>>>> cultural holiday to dress up, which i understand is for the best of reasons
>>>>>> but also pretty exploitative of a culture you don't belong to.  what is
>>>>>> wrong with just making this a Halloween party and not contributing to the
>>>>>> ongoing exploitation of local Hispanic communities of color?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -hep
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * edited this to be less of a jerk.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 1:54 PM, yar <yardenack at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 12:42 PM, Lesley Bell <zvezdalune at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> > Hello!
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > The Omni needs funds.  Dia de los Muertos is a thing. We would
>>>>>>> like to
>>>>>>> > introduce new people to the space and expand our community.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > I have attached a flyer for a possible event, a funky
>>>>>>> transhumanist/Dia de
>>>>>>> > los Muertos themed costume ball.  Should this happen? Is there a
>>>>>>> reason
>>>>>>> > anyone would like to block?
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Also, steampunk zombies! Mechanical corpses! Post-singularity
>>>>>>> glittery
>>>>>>> > things covered in LEDs! Ordinary awesome humans!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looks fun! Right now the way to book events is:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) check the calendar for conflicts:
>>>>>>> https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Calendar
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2) submit this form: bit.ly/omniballroom
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Full explanation and future changes to the process will go here:
>>>>>>> https://omnicommons.org/wiki/How_to_book_events
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     HEPIC PHOTOGRAPHY
>>>>>> 415 867 9472 || http://hepic.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>     HEPIC PHOTOGRAPHY
>>>> 415 867 9472 || http://hepic.net
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
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