[sudo-discuss] Dia de los Muertos fundraiser: is happening?

Fri Oct 24 19:14:17 PDT 2014

In fact, why don't you reach out and find more Mexican@ friends to help you
with it and have hispanic folks show up?  That way it would be actual
bi-cultural exchange, increasing the diversity of perspectives in sudo and
transhumanism as well, instead of a one way process.

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm actually quite happy that this discussion is happening at sudo,
> because these discussions will affect how culture in a diverse oakland is
> approached.  As an American born Indian, I'm quite see Indian culture
> regularly lifted and abused in all sorts of contexts, especially in white
> new age/hippie/techno music circles (having "puja" become a marketing tool
> for white folk).  Now, keep in mind that I both actively participate in
> said culturally appropriative circles (I love electronic music and can't
> really avoid this stuff), and also have puja be a part of my mundane daily
> existence in my indian family.
>
> If sudo were to have drug addled sex-pujas, more power to you, I may even
> join.  However, by doing so, I believe you'd effectively alienate 98% of
> Indians who may otherwise want to participate in sudo otherwise.
>
> In my view, one reason why can be framed by the idea of the "magical
> negro":
>     http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicalNegro
>     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_Negro
>
> What's happening is effectively the dehumanization and squelching of the
> mundane and day to day life of one or more people.  Now, this happens all
> the time with all sorts of culture, so you can't purely blame only white
> folks.....  But when you put it in the context of racist immigration laws,
> unfair wages, police killings, prisons, real estate redlining, and various
> other ongoing real hot, living issues, it is a GREAT way to alienate people
> in a community.  At best you run the risk of treating of reducing sacred
> elements to being clown like, at worst is pure outright denial of atrocity.
>
> An extreme example of this occurred a few years ago when some white
> burners at the bordello decided to throw a "go native" party where they
> encouraged other white burners to dress up like indigenous people around
> the world.  Of course, this pissed off more than a few people.
>
> http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/burners-torched-over-native-party/Content?oid=1369150
>
> (fast forward to now, I actually now KNOW both the people involved with
> the party and folks in the native community, and generally like all of
> them... But there *IS* a racial disconnect.  Ask most any brown/black
> person and they will have visceral reactions to these sorts of things).
>
> I WANT cultural exchange.  DDM is meant for everyone to participate.   But
> in my view, a Dia De Los Muertos party -- if we as a sudo community want to
> be truly inclusive to Mexican at s -- should be initiated or at least guided
> by someone who is Mexican or Mexican-American.
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 6:05 PM, Sonja Trauss <sonja.trauss at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> No break it down for me - hep announced she's Hispanic, then announced
>> there is something wrong with whites celebrating Hispanic holidays.
>>
>> I assume those statements are connected - are they not? I thought the 1st
>> one was designed to give some authority to the 2nd one.
>>
>> My other question is to clarify her statement, if whites can't celebrate
>> Hispanic holidays, is it also the case that Hispanics must celebrate
>> Hispanic holidays? The logic behind the prohibition on whites celebrating
>> Hispanic holidays (whites are appropriating-stealing-'taking away' the
>> holiday) implies also a positive mandate that Hispanics must celebrate the
>> holiday. How much more would Hispanics be alienated from DD if they stopped
>> celebrating it! Is this the case? I'm trying to understand the argument.
>>
>>
>> On Friday, October 24, 2014, max b <maxb.personal at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ok so maybe there's still a chance to keep this from turning into the
>>> proper train-wreck that I'm sensing.
>>>
>>> Perhaps you'd like to take a few minutes and re-think those questions
>>> and consider whether or not they're particularly thoughtful and whether
>>> you'd like to re-phrase them and/or retract them?
>>>
>>> I think people on the list would be more than willing to consider that
>>> they might have been sent in a moment of heat and that some small amount of
>>> cooling off would let us actually allow this thread to turn into something
>>> more productive....
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Sonja Trauss <sonja.trauss at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just didn't want to seem aggressive or like I'm trying to troll the
>>>> list or criticize you in public.
>>>>
>>>> But since you do - can you explain a thing I always wonder about when I
>>>> read authoritative statements about "My Culture" -
>>>> What should I make of Hispanics that don't agree with you - Hispanics
>>>> who do not care who celebrates their holidays, or Hispanics who don't feel
>>>> particularly connected to their holidays? Which one of you speaks for all
>>>> Hispanics?
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, October 24, 2014, Hep Svadja <hepkitten at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Bringing this back to the list because, as per usual I do not enjoy
>>>>> being contacted offlist and berated about my culture, or berated about
>>>>> white people's entitlement to my culture.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> -hep
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 5:32 PM, Sonja Trauss <sonja.trauss at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm from the east coast, Philadelphia. Philadelphia is 45,45,10
>>>>>> black, white, Hispanic (mostly Puerto Rican) + Asian (Cambodian,
>>>>>> Vietnamese, Filipino, Korean and Chinese). As you can maybe imagine, day of
>>>>>> the dead is really not a thing in Philadlephia. When I lived there, I never
>>>>>> went to a DD party, or even really had heard of it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here, in the bay, the racial/ethnic distribution is way different. I
>>>>>> never meet Puerto Ricans any more, and there are way fewer blacks. There
>>>>>> are more Asians and Hispanics. Not only is the current Hispanic population
>>>>>> here bigger, this area was settled by Spanish soldiers (unlike
>>>>>> Philadelphia, settled by Dutch and English mostly. Also some Germans). The
>>>>>> Spanish settler influence is all over - in names, in the types of old
>>>>>> buildings. The white people I meet here are Way more likely to speak
>>>>>> Spanish than the people I grew up with. the white people I meet here know
>>>>>> more about Mexico and Central America than the ppl back east. The point is,
>>>>>> California is a way more Hispanic part of the US overall than anywhere I
>>>>>> lived before.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Therefore, it is not surprising at all to see way more DD. Moreover,
>>>>>> it doesn't seem strange to me that people who live near each other
>>>>>> would celebrate the same holidays. The thing that makes many Hispanics
>>>>>> celebrate day of the dead (seeing Hispanics celebrate day of the dead) also
>>>>>> makes white people celebrate day of the dead.
>>>>>> Put another way, is it weird to you how many atheists
>>>>>> and non-Christians in America celebrate Christmas? Probably not - you can
>>>>>> see that at on December 25th, Christmas is just the thing to do.
>>>>>> When you see white people celebrating DD here, it's not because they
>>>>>> want to steal your holiday, it's because your culture is pervasive here.
>>>>>> Does that make sense?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Friday, October 24, 2014, Hep Svadja <hepkitten at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> hi guys:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a little bothered by the cultural appropriation of this event. as a
>>>>>>> Bay Area Hispanic I find it quite strange when groups of mostly white
>>>>>>> people with no ties to the actual culture of ddlm host events not in the
>>>>>>> actual spirit of this extremely reverent Hispanic holiday. basically if you
>>>>>>> don't build an ofrenda on your ancestors' graves every year i find it
>>>>>>> really problematic to be jumping aboard this holiday as you are clearly not
>>>>>>> of this culture. using it as an excuse for a dance party is even more
>>>>>>> questionable as is encouraging people with no understanding of this
>>>>>>> cultural holiday to dress up, which i understand is for the best of reasons
>>>>>>> but also pretty exploitative of a culture you don't belong to.  what is
>>>>>>> wrong with just making this a Halloween party and not contributing to the
>>>>>>> ongoing exploitation of local Hispanic communities of color?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -hep
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * edited this to be less of a jerk.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 1:54 PM, yar <yardenack at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 12:42 PM, Lesley Bell <zvezdalune at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> > Hello!
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > The Omni needs funds.  Dia de los Muertos is a thing. We would
>>>>>>>> like to
>>>>>>>> > introduce new people to the space and expand our community.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > I have attached a flyer for a possible event, a funky
>>>>>>>> transhumanist/Dia de
>>>>>>>> > los Muertos themed costume ball.  Should this happen? Is there a
>>>>>>>> reason
>>>>>>>> > anyone would like to block?
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Also, steampunk zombies! Mechanical corpses! Post-singularity
>>>>>>>> glittery
>>>>>>>> > things covered in LEDs! Ordinary awesome humans!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Looks fun! Right now the way to book events is:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1) check the calendar for conflicts:
>>>>>>>> https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Calendar
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2) submit this form: bit.ly/omniballroom
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Full explanation and future changes to the process will go here:
>>>>>>>> https://omnicommons.org/wiki/How_to_book_events
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     HEPIC PHOTOGRAPHY
>>>>>>> 415 867 9472 || http://hepic.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>     HEPIC PHOTOGRAPHY
>>>>> 415 867 9472 || http://hepic.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>
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