[sudo-discuss] Dia de los Muertos fundraiser: is happening?

[Lesley Bell]

Praveen, that's an excellent suggestion.  Thank you for your nuanced and
sensitive response.  Would anyone on the list who identifies as Hispanic
like to help with that?

This discussion hinges on the issue of whether there is a difference
between disrespectful cultural appropriation (e.g. Native-themed all-white
frat parties) and respectful culture-inspired artistic and social
explorations. Unlike Sonja, most of my lived experience has been in areas
with much more Hispanic influence than the Bay Area.  In New Mexico, I
didn't hear anyone voice offense at whites celebrating DDM, because we were
the minority and acknowledged as part of the community--our participation
carried no threat because Hispanics were the often-dominant majority. Also,
there were so many people of mixed ancestry, white-skinned Mexicans, and
brown skinned non-Hispanic Native peoples that there was no issue of anyone
being assumed to have "no understanding" of the holiday.

Also, I have seen the issue of race-as-culture be very much used to oppress
people of color in historically white European countries where people of
color can live in the country for 3+ generations and still not be viewed
as, for example "really French."

Anyway, for now I'll revise the flyer. Just wait ten years until we get to
transhumans vs. primate-body-identified humans. That will be an interesting
discussion.


On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 6:59 PM, yar <yardenack at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Sonja Trauss <sonja.trauss at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I just didn't want to seem aggressive or like I'm trying to troll the
> list
> > or criticize you in public.
>
> Replying privately with an argument is in some ways more aggressive
> than replying on the list. It can make people feel cornered, makes it
> harder for them to call for backup, and can potentially enable
> triangulation gaslighting. Please ask for explicit permission from
> people before starting private email arguments.
>
> > But since you do - can you explain a thing I always wonder about when I
> read
> > authoritative statements about "My Culture" -
> > What should I make of Hispanics that don't agree with you - Hispanics
> who do
> > not care who celebrates their holidays, or Hispanics who don't feel
> > particularly connected to their holidays? Which one of you speaks for all
> > Hispanics?
>
> Speaking from an identity position is not the same as "I speak for
> everybody who shares my identity." Missing a subtle but important
> distinction like that and then haranguing somebody else over it, is
> the hallmark of a well-played troll. You've been warned several times
> on this list for creepy racist behavior. Please end it once and for
> all. Thank you.
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>



-- 
Lesley Bell

432-266-0397
zvezdalune at gmail.com
<http://lesleybell.com>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20141024/3911c9e5/attachment.html>