[sudo-discuss] Agenda Item for next week's meeting: ONL is not a member collective.

Mon Sep 8 14:51:35 PDT 2014

Non participation is a serious issue. I was mostly providing counter points
to the other issues that were being brought up.

I think it would be fair to ask for ONL to change its status due to the
nature of the project (a once a month event) and the lack of participation.

I just think the other points are invalid and wanted to gives my
perspective on those. As far a rent is concerned I was not using
Backspace's decision to finalize their contribution as less that than
initial estimates before the sublease option was signed as a justification.
I was only pointing out the fact that there is no bi-law or anything in our
governance that I know of that would require them to reapply as the
proposal states they must.
 On Sep 8, 2014 1:26 PM, "David Keenan" <dkeenan44 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Andrew and Batkid, the core issue is not the content of their show,
> although it was distressing enough I felt the need to tack it on there.
>
> The core issue is that they slashed their rent, do not participate at all
> in delegate meetings, dont pay their bills, dont really help out even with
> setting up their own shows. Its profoundly unfair, offloads work and
> financial responsibility onto others, and if every collective did that
> there would be no omni. I am saying that they are not member collective of
> the omni.
>
> Batkid and Andrew, given this, do you think they deserve to be full voting
> delegates with as much voting power as Sudo Room or BAPS?
>
> Re: Backspace, I would rather not bridge this conversation into other
> examples, but yes, Backspace reduced its rent by 50% and this was also
> extremely probelmatic and came very close to stopping us from moving into
> the Omni...If you recall Andrew, at the time, the precident of ONL first
> unilaterally slashing its rent was actually cited by Backspace at the time
> as a justifying precedent and rationale for Backspace cutting back its
> contribution, too. Now though, you're saying that Backspace cutting back
> its contrib justifies ONL doing it beforehand which doesn't really make
> sense. Neither decision, by Backspace or ONL, was actually officially
> consensed on by the group, you know?
>
> Unlike with ONL, the Backspace issue *was* discussed (although *not*
> consensed nor brought to the point of decision) at a meeting, and more
> germanely Backspace *did* continue to work with OOC to figure something
> out, and, you will note, that now, Backspace is also *not* in its space,
> and has to its credit figured out a plan at least to work more flexibly
> within the rest of the building. And the OOC *is* able to rent at least
> some of the space Backspace was going to be in and thereby make up the
> $1000 of lost rent, ie via Rise Above, etc.
>
> When Backspace slashed the amount of their rent literally as I was walking
> into a financial presentation for John it made my job extremely difficult
> and almost sank the project, so I don't know that this is the best example!
>
> David
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 9:26 AM, The Batkid <batkid at gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> I wouldn't kick ONL out on the street just yet.
>>
>> ONL is a variety show, they do all kinds of things.  At the old space,
>> they had Susie Cagle on to talk about her work interviewing
>> the families of Oakland gunshot victims and restorative justice.
>>
>> Then everyone wore silly hats in a photobooth.
>>
>> I'm excited about Jean Quan appearing on ONL next month.
>>
>> *Sent:* Monday, September 08, 2014 at 9:19 AM
>> *From:* niki <niki.shelley at gmail.com>
>> *To:* "Andrew Lowe" <andrew at lostways.com>
>> *Cc:* yar <yardenack at gmail.com>, "sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org" <
>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>, "omnilogistics at lists.riseup.net" <
>> omnilogistics at lists.riseup.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: [sudo-discuss] Agenda Item for next week's meeting: ONL
>> is not a member collective.
>>  The argument is not that ONL is not radical enough, it's that the show
>> was basically a free commercial for the mayoral candidates. Free, meaning,
>> subsidized by the Omni and when I say the Omni I mean the groups that are
>> currently contributing to making the Omni function.
>>
>> Creating a civic space for the community means engaging the community,
>> not having politicians sit there and spout meaningless rhetoric at the
>> community for two hours.
>>
>> If ONL wants to just be nothing more than an entertaining talk show, why
>> have mayoral candidates on as guests?
>>
>> N
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Andrew Lowe <andrew at lostways.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>   I did not attend this event, but I have attended ONL events before.
>>> ONL is a talk show, I'm not sure why not being political enough makes them
>>> "offensive". I mean I will let them speak for them selves, but they are an
>>> entertainment show, why would you expect a "debate" at a talk show?
>>>
>>> Also while it is true that ONL reduced their rent before singing the
>>> sublease option, there still has been no official policy that says that
>>> that action (which Backspace took as well, at the time) requires a
>>> re-application.
>>>
>>> It would be great if ONL paid more, but keep in mind that we haven't
>>> come up with a price for nightly rentals in the ballroom, when we do I
>>> think it would be fair to evaluate ONL's contribution based on that.
>>>
>>> Anyway, just standing up for this show even if it isn't really my cup of
>>> tea all the time, I think what ONL has been able to do with it is pretty
>>> amazing, and to force them out because their show isn't radical enough in
>>> the ways you want it to be would be a shame.
>>>
>>> --Andrew
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:33 AM, yar <yardenack at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> http://wiki.omni-oakland.org/w/ONL
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 9:24 PM, Charley Sheets <rcsheets at acm.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > It seems like section 7 could use some additional detail. I for one
>>>> > don't know what "Saturday's 9/6 ONL event" was, or why it would be
>>>> > offensive.
>>>>
>>>> They had 3 mayoral candidates in the room (parker, tuman, siegel), but
>>>> chose to interview one candidate at a time. Each candidate got an
>>>> uninterrupted stump speech, pandering questions from the hosts, then 2
>>>> ad-hoc audience questions, and that was it. One even screened a
>>>> commercial.
>>>>
>>>> I was disappointed and insulted because I'd heard it was going to be a
>>>> "debate." Maybe it got distorted in the rumor-mill. But either way,
>>>> this candidate-showcasing style of engagement is something people have
>>>> fought against for ages. It's passive, undemocratic, and pointless. If
>>>> we're going to engage with electoral politics we should know this
>>>> history. Here's the League of Women Voters explaining why they stopped
>>>> hosting presidential "debates" in 1988:
>>>> http://www.lwv.org/press-releases/league-refuses-help-perpetrate-fraud
>>>>
>>>> Some more history:
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_debates#Debate_sponsorship
>>>>
>>>> I think at minimum, a debate needs to:
>>>>
>>>> * force candidates to interact with each other
>>>> * invite all candidates at the same time
>>>> * prioritize audience participation and engagement
>>>>
>>>> We missed an opportunity - we had them on our turf and did nothing new
>>>> with them - but it's not too late. On October 11 they're hosting 3
>>>> more (schaaf, kaplan, quan). Maybe ONL will be open to input on how
>>>> they conduct next month's event! Any Sudoers who want to ask tough
>>>> questions on the record of present and future mayors on our turf,
>>>> now's your chance to get involved. :)
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>> ---------
>>> Andrew Lowe
>>> http://www.lostways.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing
>> list sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20140908/586c88e4/attachment.html>