[sudo-discuss] Fwd: [sudo-info] reaching out from google.org regarding an assistive technology hackathon

Wed Jun 24 21:53:30 PDT 2015

What I think is sad about all of this is that Google, with their reach and
stable funding, has the power to do exactly this, to propose changes that
don't get them great PR, but do address real-world problems. But I think it
would require coming to the conclusion that the answers are not entirely
tech-driven, are not quick, and are not easy.

And I definitely agree that ableism is an issue of capitalist labor
markets. If your ability to work/produce is diminished in some way or
perceived to be diminished, it diminishes your inherent value.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 9:37 PM, Vicky Knox <vknoxsironi at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think you're right in many ways, Ryan. I just wish there was some way to
> propose changes that are impactful regardless of "productness" or
> "flashiness" or profit motive. I still think there is potential for Sudoers
> to give feedback given our position. This comes from a place of having
> needed to take compromise opportunities and work within
> able/cis/white/straight/male-dominated institutions (as none of those
> things, except part white) in order to be able to attain an ultimate good.
> Or perhaps it's self-hate disguised as compromise. I don't know the answer.
> I just hope that some folks with disabilities will personally benefit from
> something that comes out of this.
>
> I also agree about other industries being ableist, but I think that is a
> larger conversation on capitalist labor itself.
>
> 2015-06-24 20:54 GMT-07:00 Adam Munich <adam at aperture.systems>:
>
>> Instead of arguing, could we instead *be thankful* that google is willing
>> to sponsor healthcare innovation, and not distributing the cash as
>> dividends to their shareholders like most of corporate america?
>>
>> Seriously guys.
>>
>> ---
>> Adam Munich -- Inventor, Physicist, Engineer
>> Web: http://adammunich.com
>> Tel: +1-650-452-0554
>>
>> Be • knowledgeable •  social • patient • fearless • compassionate • fun •
>> humble • forgiving.
>> Be a leader
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 7:49 PM, Cere Misc <cere.misc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> PS.
>>>
>>> Looks like they've switched to the hangouts API:
>>> https://developers.google.com/+/hangouts/api/ and it's not clear to me
>>> that there codec platform is open anymore based on looking at the reference
>>> functions/classes.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 7:44 PM, Cere Misc <cere.misc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> One idea I have had for a long time now is that there should be a
>>>> special audio codec used in phone communication for the elderly.  Since
>>>> it's often the case that hearing loss degrades in ways that are spectrally
>>>> predictable, it should, in theory, be very possible to tune codecs to
>>>> present speech (and audio generally) in such a way that an elderly person
>>>> could hear it much better.  Last time I looked at this, I couldn't find
>>>> anyone who was trying to tackle this via open APIs, etc.
>>>>
>>>> I personally, would love to better be able to talk to my aging
>>>> relatively over the phone without having to repeat myself over and over.
>>>> That is, assuming that the goddam phone network provides enough basic
>>>> bandwidth to get the data across successfully.
>>>>
>>>> Since google is the one who is looking for solutions, then they should
>>>> be game to collaborate on a project where a group attempts to alter the
>>>> Speex codec for that purpose.
>>>> https://developers.google.com/talk/open_communications#codecs
>>>>
>>>> .02
>>>> Cere
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 6:30 PM, Ryan <yandoryn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Oh my fucking god. I really, really hate this response.
>>>>>
>>>>> First of all, this entire idea revolves around the idea that there are
>>>>> no disabled folks in tech. That the only way tech advances can happen is if
>>>>> we get together the "need-knowers" and those with the "skills" can we find
>>>>> "solutions" to the "problem" of disability. Yes, there are a lot of
>>>>> scare-quotes in there. It's because I'm rolling my eyes so fucking hard
>>>>> right now. It's stupidly infantilizing. On top of that, Google is
>>>>> specifically saying they don't want to deal with solutions we can do now,
>>>>> they want to come up with "new and innovative" solutions, which separate
>>>>> the disabled community further, Otherizing them, and not countering the
>>>>> social model of disability.
>>>>>
>>>>> What do I want them to do?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd first of all like them to actually engage with the disabled
>>>>> community before going out with their hearts on their sleeves with the sob
>>>>> story of what disability is like to show everyone how much Google cares.
>>>>> Because honestly, that's all I see in this. "Google cares so much about the
>>>>> disabled community that they're interested in coming up with solutions that
>>>>> can't be realized right now." And in doing so, they're ignoring the fact
>>>>> that there are so many things they, Google, could be doing right now to
>>>>> actually help the disabled community with technology that is stable and
>>>>> exists, rather than "help us out" with "cutting-edge" technology.
>>>>>
>>>>> They could make it easier to access transcripts of YouTube videos.
>>>>> They could identify where there are, and aren't, curb cuts on streets.
>>>>> They could identify where there are crosswalks.
>>>>> Where there are lights to cross a busy street.
>>>>> They could see what businesses have a universal access sign in their
>>>>> window.
>>>>>
>>>>> And those are things that they could easily do with their own
>>>>> technology that I can think of off the top of my head that would simply
>>>>> help me.
>>>>>
>>>>> But no, they don't want me to identify those needs because they're not
>>>>> "innovative" and the technology isn't exciting enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do they need to use more exciting technology? Because that's the
>>>>> shit that hits the papers. There's a reason you hear about exoskeletons and
>>>>> 3D printed prostheses in the news. They're exciting to able-bodied,
>>>>> neurotypical people who want to simultaneously feel good and be able to
>>>>> ignore the disabled community.
>>>>>
>>>>> You know what would be fucking revolutionary? What if Google did a
>>>>> hackathon for disabled techies? Rather than making the disabled community
>>>>> ingratiated to those wonderful techies who reach out with all their charity
>>>>> in order to help those who are under-privileged? That entire fucking
>>>>> narrative is what I deal with every day. When I need help, I fucking ask
>>>>> for it. But here's the irony: when I do need help, half the time I don't
>>>>> get it. And when I don't need help, I constantly have it forced on me by
>>>>> people in "good faith" who feel that their drive to help me is more
>>>>> important than my desires or needs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, calling overt ableism a "misstep" is really fucking gross.
>>>>> Really gross.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Patrick O'Doherty <p at trickod.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> So anyone who reaches out in good faith, asking for feedback and
>>>>>> community engagement, but who missteps should be shunned and boycotted.
>>>>>> That seems a tad extreme and counterproductive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you want them to say yes to, specifically in relation to
>>>>>> creating an event like this?
>>>>>> On 24 Jun 2015 6:08 pm, "Ryan" <yandoryn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can never understand why outright ableism is treated so
>>>>>>> differently than other forms of prejudice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If Google had put together a hackathon where we swapped out
>>>>>>> "disability" for "black," "women," or "queer," no one would quietly be
>>>>>>> talking about how we should "explore the opportunity" so we can bring them
>>>>>>> around. We'd be livid and working to boycott the project in general.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is it about ableism that allows us to grin and bear it, and
>>>>>>> look for the long game rather than demanding short-term action? Why is the
>>>>>>> disabled community asked to be quiet and meek, while their "allies" do just
>>>>>>> as much damage as those who openly admit that they see us as objects or
>>>>>>> unworthy of life?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh, and it's not the "tech industry" that largely ableist. It's
>>>>>>> pretty much every industry out there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 5:43 PM, Vicky Knox <vknoxsironi at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm no longer in town but I have something to say.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think this is a good opportunity to explore. I hear your concerns
>>>>>>>> about their approach, Ryan. I am particularly irked by the inspirational
>>>>>>>> music in the video. *shudders*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That said, I would love to take this opportunity to transmit our
>>>>>>>> collective concerns and critiques to them...call it "hacking their
>>>>>>>> framing". :] Whether one likes it or not, these folks have a lot of power
>>>>>>>> in shaping popular technology development and understandings into the
>>>>>>>> future. While we may not revolutionize Google, we can at least encourage
>>>>>>>> them to do their bidding in a way that is a little less evil.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm happy that they're directly reaching out to hackerspaces, which
>>>>>>>> means they may take notes. I'm also happy that they're reaching out to us
>>>>>>>> because our social ecosystem is quite a bit more diverse than theirs and
>>>>>>>> therefore has more potential for wisdom (I wonder, have they reached out to
>>>>>>>> Mothership or LOL?). The tech industry (or any business that requires a
>>>>>>>> steep social capital (whiteness, maleness, ability to work 40+ hours/week,
>>>>>>>> etc.) in order to have a better (or any) chance at getting employed), after
>>>>>>>> all, is largely ableist and culturally stagnant. Please excuse my nesting.
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>
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>

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