[sudo-discuss] Fwd: [sudo-info] reaching out from google.org regarding an assistive technology hackathon

Ryan yandoryn at gmail.com
Wed Jun 24 21:59:02 PDT 2015 

pretty sure that's the fallacy of relative privation

On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 8:54 PM, Adam Munich <adam at aperture.systems> wrote:

> Instead of arguing, could we instead *be thankful* that google is willing
> to sponsor healthcare innovation, and not distributing the cash as
> dividends to their shareholders like most of corporate america?
>
> Seriously guys.
>
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> Tel: +1-650-452-0554
>
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> On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 7:49 PM, Cere Misc <cere.misc at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> PS.
>>
>> Looks like they've switched to the hangouts API:
>> https://developers.google.com/+/hangouts/api/ and it's not clear to me
>> that there codec platform is open anymore based on looking at the reference
>> functions/classes.
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 7:44 PM, Cere Misc <cere.misc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> One idea I have had for a long time now is that there should be a
>>> special audio codec used in phone communication for the elderly.  Since
>>> it's often the case that hearing loss degrades in ways that are spectrally
>>> predictable, it should, in theory, be very possible to tune codecs to
>>> present speech (and audio generally) in such a way that an elderly person
>>> could hear it much better.  Last time I looked at this, I couldn't find
>>> anyone who was trying to tackle this via open APIs, etc.
>>>
>>> I personally, would love to better be able to talk to my aging
>>> relatively over the phone without having to repeat myself over and over.
>>> That is, assuming that the goddam phone network provides enough basic
>>> bandwidth to get the data across successfully.
>>>
>>> Since google is the one who is looking for solutions, then they should
>>> be game to collaborate on a project where a group attempts to alter the
>>> Speex codec for that purpose.
>>> https://developers.google.com/talk/open_communications#codecs
>>>
>>> .02
>>> Cere
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 6:30 PM, Ryan <yandoryn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oh my fucking god. I really, really hate this response.
>>>>
>>>> First of all, this entire idea revolves around the idea that there are
>>>> no disabled folks in tech. That the only way tech advances can happen is if
>>>> we get together the "need-knowers" and those with the "skills" can we find
>>>> "solutions" to the "problem" of disability. Yes, there are a lot of
>>>> scare-quotes in there. It's because I'm rolling my eyes so fucking hard
>>>> right now. It's stupidly infantilizing. On top of that, Google is
>>>> specifically saying they don't want to deal with solutions we can do now,
>>>> they want to come up with "new and innovative" solutions, which separate
>>>> the disabled community further, Otherizing them, and not countering the
>>>> social model of disability.
>>>>
>>>> What do I want them to do?
>>>>
>>>> I'd first of all like them to actually engage with the disabled
>>>> community before going out with their hearts on their sleeves with the sob
>>>> story of what disability is like to show everyone how much Google cares.
>>>> Because honestly, that's all I see in this. "Google cares so much about the
>>>> disabled community that they're interested in coming up with solutions that
>>>> can't be realized right now." And in doing so, they're ignoring the fact
>>>> that there are so many things they, Google, could be doing right now to
>>>> actually help the disabled community with technology that is stable and
>>>> exists, rather than "help us out" with "cutting-edge" technology.
>>>>
>>>> They could make it easier to access transcripts of YouTube videos.
>>>> They could identify where there are, and aren't, curb cuts on streets.
>>>> They could identify where there are crosswalks.
>>>> Where there are lights to cross a busy street.
>>>> They could see what businesses have a universal access sign in their
>>>> window.
>>>>
>>>> And those are things that they could easily do with their own
>>>> technology that I can think of off the top of my head that would simply
>>>> help me.
>>>>
>>>> But no, they don't want me to identify those needs because they're not
>>>> "innovative" and the technology isn't exciting enough.
>>>>
>>>> Why do they need to use more exciting technology? Because that's the
>>>> shit that hits the papers. There's a reason you hear about exoskeletons and
>>>> 3D printed prostheses in the news. They're exciting to able-bodied,
>>>> neurotypical people who want to simultaneously feel good and be able to
>>>> ignore the disabled community.
>>>>
>>>> You know what would be fucking revolutionary? What if Google did a
>>>> hackathon for disabled techies? Rather than making the disabled community
>>>> ingratiated to those wonderful techies who reach out with all their charity
>>>> in order to help those who are under-privileged? That entire fucking
>>>> narrative is what I deal with every day. When I need help, I fucking ask
>>>> for it. But here's the irony: when I do need help, half the time I don't
>>>> get it. And when I don't need help, I constantly have it forced on me by
>>>> people in "good faith" who feel that their drive to help me is more
>>>> important than my desires or needs.
>>>>
>>>> Also, calling overt ableism a "misstep" is really fucking gross. Really
>>>> gross.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Patrick O'Doherty <p at trickod.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So anyone who reaches out in good faith, asking for feedback and
>>>>> community engagement, but who missteps should be shunned and boycotted.
>>>>> That seems a tad extreme and counterproductive.
>>>>>
>>>>> What do you want them to say yes to, specifically in relation to
>>>>> creating an event like this?
>>>>> On 24 Jun 2015 6:08 pm, "Ryan" <yandoryn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I can never understand why outright ableism is treated so differently
>>>>>> than other forms of prejudice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If Google had put together a hackathon where we swapped out
>>>>>> "disability" for "black," "women," or "queer," no one would quietly be
>>>>>> talking about how we should "explore the opportunity" so we can bring them
>>>>>> around. We'd be livid and working to boycott the project in general.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is it about ableism that allows us to grin and bear it, and look
>>>>>> for the long game rather than demanding short-term action? Why is the
>>>>>> disabled community asked to be quiet and meek, while their "allies" do just
>>>>>> as much damage as those who openly admit that they see us as objects or
>>>>>> unworthy of life?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh, and it's not the "tech industry" that largely ableist. It's
>>>>>> pretty much every industry out there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 5:43 PM, Vicky Knox <vknoxsironi at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm no longer in town but I have something to say.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think this is a good opportunity to explore. I hear your concerns
>>>>>>> about their approach, Ryan. I am particularly irked by the inspirational
>>>>>>> music in the video. *shudders*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That said, I would love to take this opportunity to transmit our
>>>>>>> collective concerns and critiques to them...call it "hacking their
>>>>>>> framing". :] Whether one likes it or not, these folks have a lot of power
>>>>>>> in shaping popular technology development and understandings into the
>>>>>>> future. While we may not revolutionize Google, we can at least encourage
>>>>>>> them to do their bidding in a way that is a little less evil.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm happy that they're directly reaching out to hackerspaces, which
>>>>>>> means they may take notes. I'm also happy that they're reaching out to us
>>>>>>> because our social ecosystem is quite a bit more diverse than theirs and
>>>>>>> therefore has more potential for wisdom (I wonder, have they reached out to
>>>>>>> Mothership or LOL?). The tech industry (or any business that requires a
>>>>>>> steep social capital (whiteness, maleness, ability to work 40+ hours/week,
>>>>>>> etc.) in order to have a better (or any) chance at getting employed), after
>>>>>>> all, is largely ableist and culturally stagnant. Please excuse my nesting.
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
>>
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